PSU and Consumption issues...

[Greenmousa]

Hi guys, well this is my question for the day, im sure that everyone here knows...it's a pain in the ass to be upgrading and upgrading PSUs, it's tedious, expensive and you don't really feel an impact in performance so, getting to it, this is my actual RIG:

PHENOM X4 9600 @2.3ghz
OCZ 4x 1GB DDr2 @866mhz
MSI - K9A2-CF edition (worst mother ever, it sucks)
MSI ATI HD 4850 512mb OC Edition
And the important Part...
POWERCOOLER 550w MODULAR TYPE R2


It has 2 PCIe Connectors since it was made for Xfire (although...i really doubt this would pull any Xfire beyond 2x3870's)

My question is, im going for this rig right now...

PHENOM 2 x3 720 BE @2.8 (planning on taking it to 3.0 at least)
OCZ 2x2gb DDR3 @ 1333
GIGABYTE AM3 GA-MA79XTUD4P 4DDR3 2PCIE UD3 or MSI 790FX-GD70 AMD 790FX AM3 PCI-E (x16) DDR3
ATI 5850 1gb (any brand actually maybe Saphire or HiS)

And im planning to keep my old PSU, technically the Processor and the VGA won't take much more power than the old ones, or at least that's what i found out by looking at reviews and stuff like that, but well this is my first post in this forum and im really hoping you guys can lend me a hand.

Basically im trying to not change my PSU for all the above reasons and what i didn't mentioned before, im from argentina, here we have HUGE imports taxes going to 51% in some cases so you guys should have that in mind, im a really budget person and trying to be happy with that XD.

So big question is, based on the 12v rails and total power consumption (i don't use any extras HD nor DVD drives just a 160GB HD and one DVD recorder) do you think that this PSU will hold the load??

Thank you all in advance and im really sorry if this is the wrong place to post, i thought this would be the place

[TheLaughingMan]

You are in the right section. PC Power and Cooler make great PSU's. Your new system will overall use less power. The new CPU is far more power efficient, The 5850 power efficiency is just plan scary at times. The new chipsets are a little power hungry, but not enough to matter. As the PSU ages a little more, it may give you some issues, but for now it should be just enough.

[Woody112]

Originally Posted by TheLaughingMan

You are in the right section. PC Power and Cooler make great PSU's. Your new system will overall use less power. The new CPU is far more power efficient, The 5850 power efficiency is just plan scary at times. The new chipsets are a little power hungry, but not enough to matter. As the PSU ages a little more, it may give you some issues, but for now it should be just enough.

I think we might be getting PCP&C "PC Power & Cooling" confused with PC "power cooler". I just looked up that PSU he's showing there and it's not a the PC P&C, that were thinking of.

EDIT: or should I say that I'm thinking of. LOL

[Woody112]

http://powercooler.com.ar/productos/..._ps_550tr.html
Here's the one I think he's looking at. Only 76% efficency, can only imagine what the PFC is. I personally wouldn't get this PSU.
New egg has some good deals going on right now for some corsair PSU's.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139006
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139004

[angelkiller]

Ok, expect to pull ~300W DC under CPU + Furmark stress. Probably ~250W under typical gaming situations.

I wouldn't feel comfortable using that PSU. It's not that it can't do it... 76% average efficiency indicates an (relatively) inefficient design. Inefficient designs are that way usually because they use lower quality parts. This leads to poor voltage regulation and the possibility of overloading the PSU. I seriously doubt that thing can put out 550W.

I would recommend you upgrade your PSU. How do you get PC parts in Argentina? Do you have and some online stores?

[TheLaughingMan]

Originally Posted by Woody112

I think we might be getting PCP&C "PC Power & Cooling" confused with PC "power cooler". I just looked up that PSU he's showing there and it's not a the PC P&C, that were thinking of.

EDIT: or should I say that I'm thinking of. LOL

Good point, I over looked that.

Brands to Trust with your Computer Power

Cosair
PC Power & Cooling
Seasonic
SevenTeam
Antec

[Woody112]

Originally Posted by TheLaughingMan

Good point, I over looked that.

Brands to Trust with your Computer Power

Cosair
PC Power & Cooling
Seasonic
SevenTeam
Antec

+1 Agreed. I would say OCZ also, but just because they bought out PCP&C doesn't make em as good. But they are good PSU's from the reviews I've seen.

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

Avoid this psu

[p_o_s_pc]

Originally Posted by Woody112

+1 Agreed. I would say OCZ also, but just because they bought out PCP&C doesn't make em as good. But they are good PSU's from the reviews I've seen.

OCZ does make some good PSUs. I myself own one and love it. its fairly quiet and is stable.

[[Ion]]

Originally Posted by p_o_s_pc

OCZ does make some good PSUs. I myself own one and love it. its fairly quiet and is stable.

Yep, the StealthXStream and the GameXStream are pretty good, as is the "Z", but it's not worth how much they charge for it. The ModXStream isn't a quality PSU according to [H], so I would stay away from it.

[Woody112]

Originally Posted by p_o_s_pc

OCZ does make some good PSUs. I myself own one and love it. its fairly quiet and is stable.

Ya they are really good. I'm just not fond of there lower end stuff. But there z-series, gamextreme, and stealthXtremes are very good PSU. Right up there with the best IMO.

[p_o_s_pc]

Originally Posted by Woody112

Ya they are really good. I'm just not fond of there lower end stuff. But there z-series, gamextreme, and stealthXtremes are very good PSU. Right up there with the best IMO.

Originally Posted by [Ion]

Yep, the StealthXStream and the GameXStream are pretty good, as is the "Z", but it's not worth how much they charge for it. The ModXStream isn't a quality PSU according to [H], so I would stay away from it.

I agree with both of you. I have the GameXstream and its been just as good as my Silverstone

[Woody112]

Originally Posted by [Ion]

Yep, the StealthXStream and the GameXStream are pretty good, as is the "Z", but it's not worth how much they charge for it. The ModXStream isn't a quality PSU according to [H], so I would stay away from it.

Originally Posted by Woody112

Ya they are really good. I'm just not fond of there lower end stuff. But there z-series, gamextreme, and stealthXtremes are very good PSU. Right up there with the best IMO.

That's funny what are the odd of posting the exact same general comment at the exact same time.

[TheLaughingMan]

I knew I forgot someone.

Add SilverStone to my tier 1 picks.

Tier 2 I would go with (budget PSU's)

OCZ (see above)
Rosewill
Ultra
BFG (Best non-Active PFC PSUs I know)

[p_o_s_pc]

Originally Posted by TheLaughingMan

I knew I forgot someone.

Add SilverStone to my tier 1 picks.

Tier 2 I would go with (budget PSU's)

OCZ (see above)
Rosewill
Ultra
BFG (Best non-Active PFC PSUs I know)

thats a brand i never thought would even make it on a list of recommended PSUs when they first started showing up on the egg doesn't BFG have some active PFC psus?

EDIT: a quick look on the egg shows that BFG DOES have active PFC on some of there PSUs http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...66&name=Active

[[Ion]]

Originally Posted by TheLaughingMan

I knew I forgot someone.

Add SilverStone to my tier 1 picks.

Tier 2 I would go with (budget PSU's)

OCZ (see above)
Rosewill
Ultra
BFG (Best non-Active PFC PSUs I know)

Maybe the ThermalTake Toughpower as well?
Enermax for sure (tier 1)
Also maybe Cooler Master Real Power Pro
Some Zalmans
Maybe Xigmatek? I know it's at CWT PSH like the Corsair TX750 and 850, so it should be good (I haven't seen any reviews of them, so this could be completely wrong)

[TheLaughingMan]

Don't worry. I am no authority and I know I forgot some very very good brands. I am just listed brands I have used myself, a customer, and friends. That way I can personally vouch for them.

BFG does make some Active PFC PSUs. I didn't say they didn't. But their non-active PFC units like my roommates BFG 550 GS has like a 82% average efficiency rating at 40C. The only reason it is not 80+ certified is efficency drops to 79ish when at full load. And his PSU was like $43 when he bought it which is damn near stealing.

Rosewill - Some of them, especially the new ones are really well built. Some of their older models were crap (Most of the Stallion Series), but they bounced back and upped quality of parts.

Favorite website for PSU reviews is www.hardwaresecrets.com Those are my guys for PSUs because some sites test, they torture. Some PSUs fail on their site because they simply do not survive to the end.

TPU is fro GPU's and you guys.

[Greenmousa]

Well first of all thank you all for your answers, really, it helps, for your "AVOID THAT PSU" comments i must tell you, i can't avoid it, i already have it XD had it for like...2 years now with this rig and it gave me no problems so far.

The whole point was, would this PSU be enough for the rig im trying to pull?

I looked at all the options you gave me and let me stress this point enough i mentioned im from argentina, so imports come really tax heavy around here, Powercooler it's a national brand or at least...national manufacture and international licenses...the other available and nice priced PSU i can get is this one:

SATELLITE 600W

AC Input 90v - 264Vac

DC OP: +3.3V // +5V // +12V1 // +12V2 // -12V // +5Vsb
SL8600: 24A // 30A // 22A // 22A // 0.5A // 2A //

That one i can get really cheap right now i must tell you this so you can forget about pages like Newegg and things like that (although i tottally envy you guys for having those options ), the oversea shipment and all will greatly increase the cost of a (for you guys) cheap 43 bucks psu and make it into a raging 100ish bucks product when it reaches my door.

So i know it's a sad thing having so limited options but well...you know...i must work with what i have...

Oh another thing...what about...i just change the Motherboard and the Processor, in that case this PSU will hold up fine?? I really can't see why not but im asking you guys.

So Quick wrap up:

1 ---WILL THE SATELLITE 600PSU MAKE IT AS A POSSIBLE OPTION???
2----IF I DON'T ADD A 5850 TO THE MIX, WILL I NEED ALL THE EXTRA PSU?? OR ILL HOLD UP JUST FINE WITH THE MOTHERS I SUGGESTED IN THE FIRST POST, DDR3 MEMOS AND THE PHENOM 2 X3 720???


Thank you guys again for your huge help

[Frick]

Never heard of that thing. If your old PSU took care of your old system no problem, why buy a new one?

BTW, Type R is something from Hiper, right? I think this unit and the Hiper unit came in plastic boxes, so it might be a rebranded Hiper PSU.

[Greenmousa]

Yes it came in a plastic box, almost a Tool Box size with compartiments, it's modular and in here ive seen it pull even 4850s in crossfire, nevertheles...im open to advices

ABout your question of Why buy a new one, it's just because of what i asked, will it be able to pull the same config but with a new Motherboard, ddr3 Memos and a Phenom 2 X3 730??

That's all thank you a lot for your answer

And by the way you may be Awfully Right!

HIPER:



POWERCOOLER:



Yeap theyre practically the same, as i stated in the second post, many times, brands here in argentina are National Manufacture of International Licenses.

[TheLaughingMan]

Ok, get what you want. The 5850, new prosessor, the works and just try it. Once you got it up and running, run a quick stress test on the entire system and see if it will crash. If it does, it is most likely the PSU not providing enough clean power.

As stated before, the Phonom X3 720 and the 5850 compared to your old Agena 9600 and 4850 will use less power, not more. The power consumption on a 5850 is the same as a 4850 in use and idles far lower. So try your current PSU and see if it will work. If it does, stick with it. I think it should be just fine.

Since your choices are limited, if you decide to get a new PSU, just look for these features. Active PFC is a must for gaming and high end rigs. One large Single 12V rail is preferred. Make sure it has enough plugs for what you have and any possible expansion. I say get no less than 2 PCIe plugs, 4 SATA, 4 Molex, and 24 pin primary with a 4+4 pin or 8 pin CPU plug. For gaming get 550 to 1000 Watts depending on how many GPU's you plan to have. If Crossfire/SLI is something you never plan to do, 550 to 650 Watts is a good range. If you want 2 GPU's at some point, get a PSU with 4 PCIe plugs and 700+ Watts.

I hope I answered all the questions.

[Greenmousa]

First of all, thank you for your answer.

Second do i note a certain...anger tone?? I sure hope not since im not being stubborn or anything...in my current position not only choices are limited but also money, so excuse me if i try to stick with a product i allready have instead of buying a new one i would love to have it any other way but it's just what it is.

Regarding your recomendations:

I know my PSU isn't great at all, but it does cover a serie of points you've stated:

PFC ACTIVE>>>> YES
2 PCIE>>>> YES
4 SATA>>>> YES
8 MOLEX>>>> YES
ATX 20+4 + Aux 4 pin >>> ??? Is that good for the Motherboard im trying to pull down here???

Crossfire or SLI never it's a good idea where it live...it's Texas hot in here....48°C in spring it's overkill for Xfire or SLi with no extra cooling...

So basically im allways stuck with Single GPU solutions, no more than one hard drive and one optic drive.

I will definitelly try to upgrade the CPU and MotherBoard with Memos DDR3 first maybe in the long run when i have more money upgrade my PSU so i feel more confortable with a 5850 or even 70.

Thank you a lot for your answers so far man, you've been helpfull .


Another thing... i come across this Motherboard at a really low price, should i get it??:

ELITEGROUP ECS A790GXM-AD3 1.0 AM3

Here i found a nice review with the bonus of being paired with a Phenom 2 X3 720

http://pcper.com/article.php?aid=707&type=expert&pid=1

Thanks again!

[TheLaughingMan]

I do apologize if my listed came across as angry. I wasn't and wasn't trying to be. I think the issue was with the first statement of "Ok, get what you want." I meant that as more of I think your PSU will be fine so don't let it limit your choices of new products. Sorry for not wording it a little better.

Since you are limited to only one GPU, you can save a lot of money on the Mobo. That would make the 2 your originally posted complete overkill. You will not need a 790FX board of any kind as they are gear toward multi-GPU systems.

I personally have had issues with ECS boards in the past and don't use them any more.

If you are getting these parts only, post a link to the site. Even if we can't read the site, we should be able to get a better idea of the brands and parts you can get a hold of. If you are getting these from a local store, what brand Mobo's does it carry?

[Greenmousa]

No problem, everyone can have a missunderstanding in forums it's no big deal,

Regarding what you ask:

Here are my options

Considering im looking for a Native AM3 board:

BIOSTAR TA790GX A3+ AM3

ELITEGROUP ECS A790GXM-AD3 1.0 AM3

GIGABYTE Am3 Ga-ma79xtud4p 4ddr3 2pcie Ud3


Oddly enough no one offers me lower tier mobos...theyre all in the same price range...around 145-155 dolars for AM3 native Mothers.

I may introduce a new ingredient to the mixture in here....

Im a graphic designer...but...i do character designs for games cause...im a gaming fan and i can't live my life without my games :3 so the PC for me works as a workstation and a gaming platform, i've never tried to go FULL GAMER cause...you know...i gotta eat too...so i can't afford for example a 4870X2 or a Q6660 when they came out, and so i bought a Phenom 9600 and a 8600GT that got upgraded to a 4850 later on...

My current ocupation it's making me use Photoshop a lot...but Corel Draw and Painter are my tools of the trade i divide my day in gaming and working on the wacom and photoshop, so, here are the questions:


Wich kind of Mobo will suffice??

I like to play my games at High specs, no AA nor AF but just in high, i have a 22'' LG monitor with native 1920x1028 res and my 4850 has been holding up quite nicely so far, playing even Need For Speed shift at a decent framerate, also WoW, D&D Online, and well...you get the picture, Prototype, Dead Space, Farcry all of them maxed out with no troubles. My current Mobo (MSI K9a2CF) SUCKS and in addition to that my Phenom 9600 (tlb disabled thank god) can't be overclocked not even 100mhz without leading to a full crash and burn involving hard reset and such... And that's why im asking about the motherboard, ive had bad experiences and particularly i allways used MSI but this time i felt so scammed when i found out that the Phenom 2 processor suport was a big fat lie (at least for the sad Revision 1 owners such as myself) and im willing to try another brand.

So Wich kind of chipset will be enough?? If i get a Phenom 2 X3 720 i might want to overclock it...it's like...at least im going to pull it to 3.0ghz, so it's of my understanding that i might need a good mobo for Ocing.

Another Thing:

You guys think that for my needs (Gaming, Photoshop and Corel on Vista 64 SP1) a Phenom 2 X3 720 BE will be ok?? i can get another CPUs for that same price, options are:

Phenom 2 X3 720 BE
Phenom 2 X4 810
Intel Q8200 (ughh...)

I was actually more interested in the 95w part of those two options since lately im all about power consumption XD

About the Memory

DDR3 or DDr2, this makes a world of difference, DDr3 means getting a Native AM3 motherboard when getting a DDR2 config allows me to cut some serious bucks... Will i notice a REAL difference in Gaming, Photoshop and other Design Programs?? or it's DDR3 overrated for the use ill give it??

Well...that's all i can think of right now, this is a really helpfull feedback im getting, all my life ive made tiny mistakes when building my rigs for not having this kind of answers. It's good to be here

[TheLaughingMan]

Recommendations for Budget Processor:

Athlon II X4 620 (better for Photoshop)
Phenom II X3 720 (better for gaming)

Out of the mobos listed:

GIGABYTE Am3 Ga-ma79xtud4p 4ddr3 2pcie Ud3

DDR3 vs. DDR2

Difference? Yes
Noticable? Depends on the kits being compared. Usually, no.

Since you are on a budget, I say stick with DDR2 since I assume you plan to use the RAM you already have in your current system.

Mobo recommendation: (I know you can't shop at newegg.com, but I added the link to give you a picture of the mobo)

Great Budget AM3 board
GIGABYTE GA-MA770T-UD3P
AM2 Option
GIGABYTE GA-MA785G-UD3H

Side note, the Phenom II X4 925 has been released recently. It basically makes the 810 pointless. It is defaultly clocked 200 Mhz higher, has a full 6 MB L3 cache, and the 925 is only like an extra $8.