Athlon Venice overclocking & errors

[_33]

I've got a nice A64 3000+ venice core. I know it can go to 3 ghz, even on air cooling (stock cooling solution even). But, the problem is it overheats a little (47°c) and then it makes computing errors. I wanted to know if it was normal, and if that could damage the CPU?

Otherwise, I wanted to know if anyone had a successful "pop the hood off the core" experience? If so, how well does your Venice overclock, now that the core is exposed?

[trog100]

my sandy core hits 65c under full load at 2.9 gig at 1.5 core voltage...

my venice core never goes over 41c under full load at 2.4 gig at 1.5 core voltage.. but bombs out at 2.5 gig..

same mobo.. same zalman aero flower cooler.. same everything.. all in a very well cooled case..

the sandy runs hotter even at 2.4 gig at 1.4 core voltage than the venice does.. about 10c on average under load.. at 2.9 gig its 20c hotter..

sooo i dont think 47c is stoppings things.. your venice already seems to be going a mile faster then mine does or i think one should.. soooo.. what other kinda miracles are u after doing on stock cooling.. he he he

putting the chip in direct contact contact with the cooler base has to be million times better then via a dollop of amd paste plus another bigger dollop of whatever paste with a heat spreader in between has to be..

the only thing that puzzles me is why does my venice core run so much cooler than my sandy core.. seems kinda back to front to me.. assuming mobo tempt readouts mean anything at all..???

oh.. and how come your venice hits 3 gig.. he he he

trog

[Solaris17]

hmm try upping the core V that might stabalize it

[_33]

Originally Posted by trog100

my sandy core hits 65c under full load at 2.9 gig at 1.5 core voltage...

my venice core never goes over 41c under full load at 2.4 gig at 1.5 core voltage.. but bombs out at 2.5 gig..

same mobo.. same zalman aero flower cooler.. same everything.. all in a very well cooled case..

the sandy runs hotter even at 2.4 gig at 1.4 core voltage than the venice does.. about 10c on average under load.. at 2.9 gig its 20c hotter..

sooo i dont think 47c is stoppings things.. your venice already seems to be going a mile faster then mine does or i think one should.. soooo.. what other kinda miracles are u after doing on stock cooling.. he he he

putting the chip in direct contact contact with the cooler base has to be million times better then via a dollop of amd paste plus another bigger dollop of whatever paste with a heat spreader in between has to be..

the only thing that puzzles me is why does my venice core run so much cooler than my sandy core.. seems kinda back to front to me.. assuming mobo tempt readouts mean anything at all..???

oh.. and how come your venice hits 3 gig.. he he he

trog

I wouldn't qualify as an expert, but I know that there are 2 core voltages to worry about. There is an internal core voltage that I can set to 3 values: 1.4v, 1.425v and finally 1.45v. That core voltage setting really adds a certain amount of heat to the core idle / 100%. Then there is this other core voltage that I would call more like a "cpu bus core voltage?". That one I can set it up from a wider range like 0.7v up t over 2v. That second voltage doesn't affect cpu temperature as much, but doesn't help attaining very high overclocks (past 2.8ghz). Over 2.8ghz, I need to touch the core voltage and raise it to 1.45v, but then at 2.9ghz, I start getting computing errors in the PI benchmark, and other various crashes and hangs, but the core can be set to 3ghz but will eventually crash.

All these experiences gathered, the core never got past 49°c. I never seen my core get at 50°c or anything above this even with the errors and so on.

Now, how I got to 2.8ghz, well I tought every Venice core should go to 2.8ghz! It's a very comfortable speed, never crashes in games, etc. I did have crashes because of memory, but I have poor memory.

[Tatty_One]

Couldnt get my Venice to 3 Gig....no way, have not volt modded it and am at its max without @ 2550 @1.45V and around 42C at full burn test load for 2 hours. My cooler is under $10 and is a dream for the money. Reckon with a voltmod, whatever cooler I use may make 2800 at best, prob closer to 2700 in my limited experience of venice cores (this is my 2nd) and was free by the way! once you get to about a 30-35% overclcock you start adding about a degree for every 10Mhz! darkness comes swiftly, had the 3000 before, got it to 2600 with voltmod running stable at 2600 @ 44C, went to 2660ish and she hit 53C and BSOD, many Venice cores dont like going over 50C although AMD says max temp range is 49 - 65C.

[Tatty_One]

33, nice overclock, what volts you running thru yours? have been toying with the voltmod but TBH, there aint nothing I do or play that requires as much as I have alrready got but am starting to get those overclocker "itchy fingers"

[_33]

Originally Posted by Tatty_One

33, nice overclock, what volts you running thru yours? have been toying with the voltmod but TBH, there aint nothing I do or play that requires as much as I have alrready got but am starting to get those overclocker "itchy fingers"

At 2.8ghz, the start VID is at 1.4v and the VID value is 1.58 - 1.6v. At that speed, I do 34°c idle and 47°c 100% ingame for over 15 mins. Never goes above that temp really. But, I must say my case adds a fan from the side wall that shoots direct on the CPU cooling which takes that cold air and shoots it on CPU. So I always have cool air shooting on CPU. But past those specs (2.9ghz and added start VID voltage) I start having errors.

Solution: EXPOSE THE CORE!!!!

So my first question was: Has anyone popped the hood on their venice?

[_33]

OK just found an answer somehow. When you remove the cover from the core chip, you need to put a shim under the cpu on the side where the socket is placed.

Here is a shim review I found, which are non conductive shims.
This shim is supposed to compensave for the lack of the cpu protective top.

Now to pop the hood/cap/top, call it like you want, here is an example:



Like this, but on the Venice, and results, gains!

This thread talks about it, but not much results...
or here

[_33]

OK I found a tutorial!!!!!!!!!


Takes balls and a nice slim knife!

[_33]

THE VIDEO TUTORIAL - 77MB

[largon]

X800 series Radeon GPUs are the same size as S939 processors, and they all (?) come with a shim. Well, atleast those I've seen have had a one.
X800 shim would be perfect for S939 procs if one would need one. I'm not sure, but it might be just a little bit thicker than a K8 core, but nothing a little sanding wouldn't fix.

[trog100]

a few years back all chips had heat speaders.. then they left it off to get better cooling.. now they have put it back to stop getting busted cores.. go figure..
i do think its totally wrong to blame a low temp like 50c which really aint hot by any standards for a chip tripping over its own feet.. its the speed thats doing it not the temp.. thats purely coincidental..

and 1.45 vcore is way way low.. my abit board lets me shove 1.75 volts thru the vcore if i want to.. and a 1200mhz overclocks on any amd cpu core on stock cooling aint standard.. its a bloody miracle.. he he he

it aint about keeping the chip at 45c its about putting lots of voltage thru the core.. this lets the chip run faster but generates lots of heat.. which needs extreme cooling to stop the chip from frying.. if your mobo wont let u pump the voltage up u dont need extreme cooling cos your chip will never run that hot.. not unless its an intel.. he he

also if u have to put a shim on the chip u are defeating the object of removing the heat spreader which aint really a heat spreader its just to protect the core from damage.. if u want a few degrees cooler get rid of the stock cooler that will give far more benifit then taking the heat spreader off..

47c aint even brreaking a sweat.. even amds 65c is within acceptable limits.. my mobo has a temp warnng bleep.. the lowest it will go to is bleep at 65c and shutdown down at 75c.. by default its bleep at 75c and shutdown at 85c and it will go higher..

trog

[trog100]

an interesting totally rando results all over the place cpu clocking database..

http://www.ocinside.de/go_d.html?htt...database_e.cgi

i just tried one for an amd 64 1800 original core speed cpu.. every overclock speed and temp imaginable.. he he he

trog

[Tatty_One]

Originally Posted by _33

OK I found a tutorial!!!!!!!!!


Takes balls and a nice slim knife!

Damn, fought in 2 wars but I just havent got the balls for this!!

[_33]

Originally Posted by trog100

an interesting totally rando results all over the place cpu clocking database..

http://www.ocinside.de/go_d.html?htt...database_e.cgi

i just tried one for an amd 64 1800 original core speed cpu.. every overclock speed and temp imaginable.. he he he

trog

Those stats are old. They probably apply more to the Barton core than a Venice. The Venice core is very overclockable. The wall for a Venice is 2.850 Ghz. After that, you really have to raise the voltage significantly to get to 2.9 Ghz and then 3Ghz. But, what most people don't play with is the "start VID" which is the internal core voltage. THAT voltage is PIN selected from the S939, that is why, no matter which mobo you have, on a Venice, you only get the choice betxeen 1.4v up to 1.45v. But the mainboard that supplies the core voltage can be raised up to 2.0v and up on the DFI lanparty no sweat! But that voltage is restrained by the start vid, so no matter how high you put the value, the final core voltage is defined by the "start vid" value. So for example you could shove 1.7v up the core, but the sockets and start vid will give it the real internal voltage that will be used.

Do you understand what I'm blabla"ing"?



What I am refering to for example here in the bios of the DFI Lanparty, you have on the 9th parm, the "CPU VID StartUp Value". That is the "start VID". Next parameter is "CPU VID Control" and then "CPU VID Special Control". Now those two last ones will define how much voltage the mobo will supply to the cpu, but the actual CPU internal voltage will be "start VID" value. The defult value in "start VID" is the actual core's predefined voltage when set at "StartUp". But the value can be changed from a pin selection. So depending on which pins are active from the core, you get various internal voltage ranges. Mine is 1.4v, 1.425v, and up to 1.45v (a full 3 choices!).

Now if you really need 1.5v internal core voltage for example (aka "start vid"), then you need to short the S939 pins.

Someone prove me wrong!

[trog100]

seems a wierd way of doing it.. my abit board just has the one vcore adjustment ranging from 1.4 up 1.75.. i did select amd 64 chips in that database search so bartons and earlier chips should have been removed but u never know.. the results are all over the place..

to me a cpu core voltage of 1.45 volts isnt very high.. my abit bios goes up to 1.75 vcore and i believe it.. my venice is set at 1.5 vcore so is my sandy when maxed out..

i would be happy putting more thru the venice but not the sandy.. the sandy just seems to run much hotter than the venice..

the problem i have with the venice is its low 9 x multiplyer.. it bombs out at 2.5 gig but i aint 100% sure its the chip.. having to run the external clock so high creates memory speed problems.. i would have to start off at 266 and the memory just dosnt seem to recognize that setting..

what still puzzles me is why my sandy core runs 10c hotter than my venice at similar speeds.. the venice running a 600mhz overclock at 2.4 gig with a 1.5 vore runs 41c.. the sandy at 2.4 gig with 1.4 vcore runs 51c.. same mobo same cooler.. ?????

all i know is that when u have one chip that runs happy at over 60c its hard to get worked up heat-wise about another one that only hits 41 c..

to try and run my venice at 3 gig would require an external clock speed of something like 330.. at 2.5 gig i have to use 285 or so.. my memory runs too high at 333 and wont work at all at 266 which is where it would need to be to run a higher external clock.. shame really..

what i do find odd is why would a supposedly overclockers mobo like the dfi limit the vcore to a measly 1.475 volts..

trog

[bigboi86]

2.85ghz might be the wall for your venice cpu, but every CPU is different. I really wouldn't say that speed is when all venices crap out without extra voltage.

Some venices might not reach that speed no matter what the volts/cooling. It just depeds on the grade of silicon that it was made from.


BTW, depending on how these processors overclock, I might be removing the IHS on one of them.

I have a 3400+ Venice LBBLE, and a 3500+ Venice LBBWE

The 3500+ is an E6 and the 3400+ is an E3 I beleive.

I'm thinking the LBBLE is going to overclock tremendously(good stepping). It's also a rare cpu, which only OEM systems got to use. I took it out of an HP. Google 3400+ venice and you'll see what I mean.

I'll take pictures and before/after temperature readings when I pop the top.

EDIT: I want to know the stepping of your CPU. Give me the second row of numbers/letters.

LBBLE 0536BPAW - that's my 3400+ for instance. I want to see your stepping


Also... errors are bad.. stabilize that thing.

[_33]

Originally Posted by Tatty_One

Couldnt get my Venice to 3 Gig....no way, have not volt modded it and am at its max without @ 2550 @1.45V and around 42C at full burn test load for 2 hours. My cooler is under $10 and is a dream for the money. Reckon with a voltmod, whatever cooler I use may make 2800 at best, prob closer to 2700 in my limited experience of venice cores (this is my 2nd) and was free by the way! once you get to about a 30-35% overclcock you start adding about a degree for every 10Mhz! darkness comes swiftly, had the 3000 before, got it to 2600 with voltmod running stable at 2600 @ 44C, went to 2660ish and she hit 53C and BSOD, many Venice cores dont like going over 50C although AMD says max temp range is 49 - 65C.

1.45v and 2.55 Ghz is normal. Raise that voltage to 1.55v and you will get a little higher. Test to see if your CPU hangs with superPI 2M - 4M - 8M. If so, then your case is badly ventilated. Add an exhaust fan in such case. Open the side pannel to make sure the case is cool and see that it should be stable easily at 2?7ghz. Watch out not to bust the memory limits too in your overclocking (just making sure).

[_33]

Originally Posted by largon

X800 series Radeon GPUs are the same size as S939 processors, and they all (?) come with a shim. Well, atleast those I've seen have had a one.
X800 shim would be perfect for S939 procs if one would need one. I'm not sure, but it might be just a little bit thicker than a K8 core, but nothing a little sanding wouldn't fix.

I don't think that shim is useful as it will keep heat within the walls. Actually the AMD CPU blocks have a space that let's heat out, so they are a better option than the ATI shim.

[_33]

OK everyone, as an exercise of conscience, I want people with AMD 64 bit processors to try this: Load up ClockGen (CG-NVNF4) and press "GET VALUES".

Now tell me how is your voltage?

2 pictures attached to this message. The first picture I want to show the values that my system currently has. The second I want to show CG's voltage settings. Finally consider that this voltage is not the voltage that you usually set. This is the actual "start VID" voltage. Again, this value on a Venice ranges between 1.4v and 1.45v . Try it out, change the values and see for yourself. This is not something that most people play with BTW. Be careful, your system can hang quickly!!!

On a 3rd Attachment I also added, I am showing from Everest (desktop snapshot) what I am trying to explain. (1) is start VID, (2) is input voltage from mobo.

[Steevo]

You might want to set your HTT down a notch and set your Memory to 166Mhz or set a divider.

[_33]

Originally Posted by Steevo

You might want to set your HTT down a notch and set your Memory to 166Mhz or set a divider.

I might want Steevo, but my memory will crash It's Kingston KVR and I have tried everything.

Congrats Steevo, you understood what I was talking about. And yes, 3ghz is attainable of course if you boost start VID and have proper cooling. But finally, I wanted from the get go have an example of someone who removed LID from Venice core and get some info from that with the S939 and HSF.

[Steevo]

You do have a different board that I do. But on a 1:1 setup I was never able to get higher than 230FSB as I couldn't provide the voltage that the memory likes. But, after setting my ram to manual and selecting 166Mhz with hard set timings in the BIOS and using many tools I was able to achieve 3Ghz, and above, but the thing started to hang and get too warm for my likes.

My memory is running at its rated speed if you will look. And at 166Mhz BIOS speed it automaticly sets a divider to keep the CPU at stock speed of 2.4Ghz, so I have that extra 30Mhz of ram speed to play with.

[_33]

Originally Posted by Steevo

You do have a different board that I do. But on a 1:1 setup I was never able to get higher than 230FSB as I couldn't provide the voltage that the memory likes. But, after setting my ram to manual and selecting 166Mhz with hard set timings in the BIOS and using many tools I was able to achieve 3Ghz, and above, but the thing started to hang and get too warm for my likes.

My memory is running at its rated speed if you will look. And at 166Mhz BIOS speed it automaticly sets a divider to keep the CPU at stock speed of 2.4Ghz, so I have that extra 30Mhz of ram speed to play with.

Ok sorry I forgot to say the multiplier on my proc is locked to a max of 9x. I would love to have 10x or even better 12x but impossible, it is locked and there are no tricks to unlock multiplier on the A64 that anyone knows about. I know thoe there is a volt mod for the s939 pins to increase start VID from iot's max 1.45v to 1.55v max. Again congrats Steevo. How are you cooling that beast?

[Tatty_One]

Originally Posted by _33

1.45v and 2.55 Ghz is normal. Raise that voltage to 1.55v and you will get a little higher. Test to see if your CPU hangs with superPI 2M - 4M - 8M. If so, then your case is badly ventilated. Add an exhaust fan in such case. Open the side pannel to make sure the case is cool and see that it should be stable easily at 2?7ghz. Watch out not to bust the memory limits too in your overclocking (just making sure).

Got 2 exhausts and 4 case fans so would hope its OK, either that or drop it on the friggin North Pole and use remote assistant! ambient temp once runnin for a while is usually 20-25C. Been tryin to avoid the voltmod but it looks like its gotta happen!