ATI HD5XXX Series Discussion

TheMailMan78 · Jul 28, 2009, 05:41 PM

This maybe old news for some of you but I thought it was interesting. I can only hope its true. 5 is my favorite number

The twins need replacing.

Quote:

According to some German tech sites, the RV870, and ATI's next generation of video cards, is likely to come some time near the end of July. This follows earlier rumours, and also comes after AMD CEO Dirk Meyer said the following at recent buisness meeting:

"We did and what we said is we launched in Q1 notebook GPUs. We'll launch another product here soon and follow that up with I'll say a wave of DX11 compatible products in the back half of the year on 40 nanometer."

Not all the much is known about the RV870 ( HD 5800 ) beside three things: first off, it will be incredibly fast, as all new generations are; second, it will be DX11 capable (although no DX11 capable games are expected for a long time now); and third, it will be made with a 40nm manufacturing process.

Rumors also suggest it will have around 1.9 TFlops of computational power (which is almost double many of today's high-end cards).

Source

erocker · Jul 28, 2009, 05:43 PM

There have been numerous reports since April 22nd claiming as soon as August and as late as November. An article (from FUD) states that RV870 is basically the same design as RV770 which is a little disappointing to me.

TheMailMan78 · Jul 28, 2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erocker

There have been numerous reports since April 22nd claiming as soon as August and as late as November. An article (from FUD) states that RV870 is basically the same design as RV770 which is a little disappointing to me.

If thats the case a wave of depression just washed over me. Is this the end of ATI? Will TheMailMan go Nvidia? Tune in next time. Same bat time. Same bat channel.

nafets · Jul 28, 2009, 05:50 PM

Don't hold your breath. ATI can barely get enough RV740s from the currently poor yielding 40nm process, much rather a larger, more complex, higher power consuming RV870...

TheMailMan78 · Jul 28, 2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nafets

Don't hold your breath. ATI can barely get enough RV740s from the currently poor yielding 40nm process, much rather a larger, more complex, higher power consuming RV870...

Na sayer.

erocker · Jul 28, 2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

If thats the case a wave of depression just washed over me. Is this the end of ATI? Will TheMailMan go Nvidia? Tune in next time. Same bat time. Same bat channel.

Why buy an inferior product? I'm speaking any DX10 card. If you want an Nvidia DX11 card you will have to wait till early next year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nafets

Don't hold your breath. ATI can barely get enough RV740s from the currently poor yielding 40nm process, much rather a larger, more complex, higher power consuming RV870...

40nm process is on track now and going well. As a matter of fact, it's going so well that GlobalFoundries will be making them as well. HD 4770's are readily available now.

phanbuey · Jul 28, 2009, 05:56 PM

yeah its rumored to be the same design as rv770... prolly 30-50% increase in performance.

ATI is shooting for a totally different strategy than Nvidia, attempting to make a chip that will cater to all mrkets and cut back costs, while NV is continuing their "roll out the monster" tactics. It will be interesting to see how these will perform, both companies look good on paper (paper of unreliable rumors).

AltecV1 · Jul 28, 2009, 05:58 PM

RV790+more shaders+40nm+dx11=RV870!!!!

no major improvment this time.

SNiiPE_DoGG · Jul 28, 2009, 05:58 PM

they can go and release a 50% increase chip now, it will be 50% faster and people will buy it. by the time nvidia hits back next year with a dx11 card ATI will be ready to release a card that is competitive or better than the gt300

IINexusII · Jul 28, 2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

they can go and release a 50% increase chip now, it will be 50% faster and people will buy it. by the time nvidia hits back next year with a dx11 card ATI will be ready to release a card that is competitive or better than the gt300

+1 ati ftw

phanbuey · Jul 28, 2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

they can go and release a 50% increase chip now, it will be 50% faster and people will buy it. by the time nvidia hits back next year with a dx11 card ATI will be ready to release a card that is competitive or better than the gt300

That's a good point. Timing is everything... Im sure the fan is thoroughly revolving in sh*t at NV just because of this...

If it's not first, NV really likes to spoil ATI's launches with paper launches of whatever product is supposed to counter it. Like 3870/8800GT launch... 4870/gt200 Launch...

From_Nowhere · Jul 28, 2009, 06:14 PM

ATI also tends to lie about their cards specs, and performance. For example: HD 4830 SP Count, 800SPUs (thought to be only 480) on the HD 4800s, and HD 2900XT performing better than a 8800GTX.
We will only know for sure when the cards are released, and reviewed.

EDIT:

Not AMD/ATI lying, but rumors proven wrong when the cards were released (480SP -was actually 800SP for the Radeon HD 48x0s). Also disregard

Ben_UK · Jul 28, 2009, 07:11 PM

Nah, I don't think so, that article is from April.

I think we might see a new GPU from ATi before the year ends but its all down to yields.

WhiteLotus · Jul 28, 2009, 07:14 PM

I hope these new cards will be better at folding though.

yogurt_21 · Jul 28, 2009, 07:44 PM

the way they keep on bringing out new 4800 variants we're likely looking at a december paper launch with shelve launch of january. sigh.

NastyHabits · Jul 28, 2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteLotus

I hope these new cards will be better at folding though.

The ATI folding problem is one of software, not hardware. ATi hasn't assisted FAH in developing folding software as much as they used to. There are rumors this will be addressed soon.

jmcslob · Jul 28, 2009, 08:05 PM

AHH....uhm I bet the ATI 5000's will be what the 3000's are to the 2000's,but uh to the 4000's and i bet about Christmas of 2010 the whoop ass 6000's will be out killing Nvidia's
Look at the ATI odds, Crap, now look at the evens, Gooooood

TheLaughingMan · Jul 28, 2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by From_Nowhere

ATI also tends to lie about their cards specs, and performance. For example: HD 4830 SP Count, 800SPUs (thought to be only 480) on the HD 4800s, and HD 2900XT performing better than a 8800GTX. Hell even their Stream Processing Units scheme has a lot of people confused on how many stream processors ATI cards have.

We will only know for sure when the cards are released, and reviewed.

Then you have been sadly misinformed. The 4850, 4870, and 4890 have 800 SPU's. The 4830 has 640. ATI has never release a card with 480 or anywhere close to 480 SPU's.

And their SPU system is not confusing just different. The more SPU's the better. Just remember that comparison to an Nvidia card 1 SPU ATI doesn't equal 1 SPU for Nvidia.

happita · Jul 28, 2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltecV1

RV790+more shaders+40nm+dx11=RV870!!!!

no major improvment this time.

Sounds a lot like the hd2k series moved to hd3k series.

jmcslob · Jul 28, 2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happita

Sounds a lot like the hd2k series moved to hd3k series.

Dam you i was in the middle of writing that.....
I bet the 5000's will be what the 3000's were to the 2000's,but to the 4000,s the only good reason to buy a 5000 is so you can have a useless DX11( for at least 6 months ) which is why im gonna buy one

Flyordie · Jul 28, 2009, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by From_Nowhere

ATI also tends to lie about their cards specs, and performance. For example: HD 4830 SP Count, 800SPUs (thought to be only 480) on the HD 4800s, and HD 2900XT performing better than a 8800GTX. Hell even their Stream Processing Units scheme has a lot of people confused on how many stream processors ATI cards have.

We will only know for sure when the cards are released, and reviewed.

In reality- 800SPs isn't really true... that was a marketing ploy to say "Hey! We got more SPs!!"
If you were to compare ATI to Nvidia on the Nvidia side of the field... ATI would have
HD4870/50/90 = 80SPs
GTX260/80= 216/240

Thats how it was explained to me by an engineer at TSMC.

AltecV1 · Jul 28, 2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyordie

In reality- 800SPs isn't really true... that was a marketing ploy to say "Hey! We got more SPs!!"
If you were to compare ATI to Nvidia on the Nvidia side of the field... ATI would have
HD4870/50/90 = 80SPs
GTX260/80= 216/240

Thats how it was explained to me by an engineer at TSMC.

so atis "80"(RV790) can beat nvidias 216

who sayd that nvidia has better arch then ati!

overclocking101 · Jul 28, 2009, 09:29 PM

This is awesome (the discussion I mean) I'm an ati fanboy so my opinion matters not

WhiteLotus · Jul 28, 2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyHabits

The ATI folding problem is one of software, not hardware. ATi hasn't assisted FAH in developing folding software as much as they used to. There are rumors this will be addressed soon.

ah sweet. I did not know this. I always thought they should be better at folding because they have more ROPs (right?)

phanbuey · Jul 28, 2009, 09:34 PM

That's a pretty inaccurate way of explaining it... actually its dead wrong.

basically, if the software is 100% unoptimized for the hardware, then at a minimum 160SP's are active (im pretty sure its 5 simple shaders attached) whereas nvidia is always at 216/240

im not actually sure where the 80 number came from.

EDIT - yep 160 superscalar shaders. 80 is dead wrong, that engineer is on crack. Plus when 100% optimized software is used ATI cards have more power than NV cards...

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Jul 28, 2009, 05:43 PM	#2
erocker Senior Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI. Posts: 32,293 (12.78/day) Thanks: 2,818 Thanked 12,453 Times in 7,919 Posts System Specs	There have been numerous reports since April 22nd claiming as soon as August and as late as November. An article (from FUD) states that RV870 is basically the same design as RV770 which is a little disappointing to me. __________________

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Jul 28, 2009, 05:50 PM	#4
nafets Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 610 (0.34/day) Thanks: 45 Thanked 134 Times in 107 Posts	Don't hold your breath. ATI can barely get enough RV740s from the currently poor yielding 40nm process, much rather a larger, more complex, higher power consuming RV870...

Jul 28, 2009, 05:56 PM	#7
phanbuey Eligible for custom title Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Miami Posts: 5,011 (2.45/day) Thanks: 1,484 Thanked 960 Times in 813 Posts System Specs	yeah its rumored to be the same design as rv770... prolly 30-50% increase in performance. ATI is shooting for a totally different strategy than Nvidia, attempting to make a chip that will cater to all mrkets and cut back costs, while NV is continuing their "roll out the monster" tactics. It will be interesting to see how these will perform, both companies look good on paper (paper of unreliable rumors).

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Jul 28, 2009, 05:58 PM	#8
AltecV1 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Republic of Estonia Posts: 1,248 (0.77/day) Thanks: 158 Thanked 175 Times in 144 Posts System Specs	RV790+more shaders+40nm+dx11=RV870!!!! no major improvment this time.

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Jul 28, 2009, 05:58 PM	#9
SNiiPE_DoGG Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 442 (0.29/day) Thanks: 87 Thanked 135 Times in 99 Posts System Specs	they can go and release a 50% increase chip now, it will be 50% faster and people will buy it. by the time nvidia hits back next year with a dx11 card ATI will be ready to release a card that is competitive or better than the gt300 __________________ [Project] :::Flow::: @ TPU

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Jul 28, 2009, 06:14 PM	#12
From_Nowhere Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 293 (0.16/day) Thanks: 50 Thanked 78 Times in 64 Posts	ATI also tends to lie about their cards specs, and performance. For example: HD 4830 SP Count, 800SPUs (thought to be only 480) on the HD 4800s, and HD 2900XT performing better than a 8800GTX. We will only know for sure when the cards are released, and reviewed. EDIT: Not AMD/ATI lying, but rumors proven wrong when the cards were released (480SP -was actually 800SP for the Radeon HD 48x0s). Also disregard Last edited by From_Nowhere; Oct 17, 2009 at 07:06 AM. Reason: To get facts straight.

Jul 28, 2009, 07:11 PM	#13
Ben_UK Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Solihull, England, UK Posts: 49 (0.03/day) Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Nah, I don't think so, that article is from April. I think we might see a new GPU from ATi before the year ends but its all down to yields.

Jul 28, 2009, 07:14 PM	#14
WhiteLotus Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Plymouth, UK Posts: 4,813 (2.24/day) Thanks: 532 Thanked 859 Times in 684 Posts System Specs	I hope these new cards will be better at folding though. __________________ “Sorry but I cannot respond now, I am running a full virus scan on the internet.” -brandonwh64

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Jul 28, 2009, 07:44 PM	#15
yogurt_21 Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,058 (1.51/day) Thanks: 2,249 Thanked 542 Times in 443 Posts System Specs	the way they keep on bringing out new 4800 variants we're likely looking at a december paper launch with shelve launch of january. sigh.

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Jul 28, 2009, 08:05 PM	#17
jmcslob Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Internet Heaven Posts: 2,733 (1.75/day) Thanks: 793 Thanked 424 Times in 328 Posts System Specs	AHH....uhm I bet the ATI 5000's will be what the 3000's are to the 2000's,but uh to the 4000's and i bet about Christmas of 2010 the whoop ass 6000's will be out killing Nvidia's Look at the ATI odds, Crap, now look at the evens, Gooooood __________________ Where to get Wireless drivers Solve Sleep Issues Last edited by jmcslob; Jul 28, 2009 at 08:07 PM. Reason: just history

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Jul 28, 2009, 09:29 PM	#23
overclocking101 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: vermont Posts: 2,636 (1.72/day) Thanks: 196 Thanked 405 Times in 363 Posts System Specs	This is awesome (the discussion I mean) I'm an ati fanboy so my opinion matters not

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Jul 28, 2009, 09:34 PM	#25
phanbuey Eligible for custom title Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Miami Posts: 5,011 (2.45/day) Thanks: 1,484 Thanked 960 Times in 813 Posts System Specs	That's a pretty inaccurate way of explaining it... actually its dead wrong. basically, if the software is 100% unoptimized for the hardware, then at a minimum 160SP's are active (im pretty sure its 5 simple shaders attached) whereas nvidia is always at 216/240 im not actually sure where the 80 number came from. EDIT - yep 160 superscalar shaders. 80 is dead wrong, that engineer is on crack. Plus when 100% optimized software is used ATI cards have more power than NV cards...

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