Sony Adds Cinavia DRM Protection in as Automatic PS3 Download

[Wile E]

Wasn't sure where to put this, it's technically a software issue, so I put it here.

http://www.ps3news.com/PlayStation-3...-ps3-download/

This is bad news for those of use that back up and stream their BluRays to preserve their discs. The only thing I have going for me is the fact that I haven't updated my PS3 past 3.15 fw, so I don't think it will effect my back ups.

This makes me unhappy.

[Phxprovost]

umm what? more information is needed about this, the only thing i use my ps3 for these days is watching movies from my media server

[Wile E]

It's an inaudible audio watermark. Even transcoding does not eliminate it. If you have a Cinavia enabled player and you rip a movie with this technology, the player will not play it.

The player picks up on the signal, then checks to see if what you are playing is in it's original format, like a BD Rom. If it;s playing over the network or on a BD-R or whatever, it will stop playback, or stop the audio.

Here's a thread with more info on Doom9: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=155777

This is very bad news for people that backup all their BDs and just watch them over the network on the PS3. I'm in this category, but I still haven't updated my ps3, so I'm good for now.

Supposedly, you are safe on firmwares before 3.41 on the PS3. But then you lose online play, new games, and PS Network.

All new BD players will have it, and all manufactured since late 2009 have the component, but just needs activated.

Now, how long before BD's won't play unless your player supports this tech? I'll hold out on firmware 3.15 as long as possible, but it's looking more and more like a true HTPC is the only way to go.

[Wile E]

Anyone come across this in real world usage yet, or come across any additional info?

[newtekie1]

I just updated to the 3.41 firmware today, but I haven't played any movies through it. Will this potentially effect DVD rips as well, or just Blu-Rays? Most of my movies are DVD rips, so I hope it doesn't effect them...

[Solaris17]

if i had a BD drive i would i stream all our DVD's through the mainframe. which is picked up by the PS3 upstairs and played on my living rooms home theartre. The problem is i havent backed up my Blu rays because i only have DVD drives.

[Wile E]

SO far, I've only seen reports of a couple of BD's having it. But, they are using it in theaters right now, and it's even picked up with CAM recodings. That's how well this drm works.

If you rip a BD with this DRM and stream it to your 3.41+ PS3 (which is what I do with all my BD's), it will kill playback. When the DRM is triggered, it checks to make sure you are using the media the original is supposed to be on, so if you are playing from anything other than the BR Rom, it kills playback. This includes BD-R, USB, internal HD or across the network, and it still works even if you transcode.

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by Wile E

SO far, I've only seen reports of a couple of BD's having it. But, they are using it in theaters right now, and it's even picked up with CAM recodings. That's how well this drm works.

If you rip a BD with this DRM and stream it to your 3.41+ PS3 (which is what I do with all my BD's), it will kill playback. When the DRM is triggered, it checks to make sure you are using the media the original is supposed to be on, so if you are playing from anything other than the BR Rom, it kills playback. This includes BD-R, USB, internal HD or across the network, and it still works even if you transcode.

intresting. iv been reading up on it. i wonder if it would kill the signal if it was being streamed from say my disk drive? or maybe it can be circumvented by being mounted in deamon tools? and set deamon tools as a BD-rom/BD drive?

[Wile E]

Originally Posted by Solaris17

intresting. iv been reading up on it. i wonder if it would kill the signal if it was being streamed from say my disk drive? or maybe it can be circumvented by being mounted in deamon tools? and set deamon tools as a BD-rom/BD drive?

I doubt it would work, because the PS3 just sees it as a network stream, not as a disc.

Now, if someone would write an ISO mounter for ps3, perhaps that would work.

This just tells me PS3 need CFW more than ever. I'm not updating my original 60GB past 3.15 until that day comes. Looks like I might be forced to not buy anymore ps3 games and just buy a standalone BD player for original discs when they likely make it mandatory to have this as a supported feature in new movies. Sony's actions of the past few months have left a bitter taste in my mouth over this console. It used to be my favorite. But I'm not gonna go buy a second one so I can keep linux and streaming my discs on the old one, and play the newest games and movies on a newer one. I'll skip the new games, thanks.

[Solaris17]

According to the official site, the watermarking works by "comparing the source of the audio to the format in which a movie was released (ie theatrical or commercial disc), and if the watermarked audio source detects a difference, the movie will either be mute (but most likely not play at all.

technically. if the disk drive or virtual disk drive was shared and you had a movie in raw BD format im not sure it would trip the protection. It is being streamed very true. but I dont think it is being encoded/converted So i dont think it would shut it down.

[Wile E]

Originally Posted by Solaris17

technically. if the disk drive or virtual disk drive was shared and you had a movie in raw BD format im not sure it would trip the protection. It is being streamed very true. but I dont think it is being encoded/converted So i dont think it would shut it down.

Yes it would because the PS3 would not recognize it as a disc. It would only recognize it as a streamed movie. A disc drive shared to the ps3 behaves like a folder, not a disc drive. The movie does not have to be transcoded at all, it just has to be in a medium other than the original.

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by Wile E

Yes it would because the PS3 would not recognize it as a disc. It would only recognize it as a streamed movie. A disc drive shared to the ps3 behaves like a folder, not a disc drive. The movie does not have to be transcoded at all, it just has to be in a medium other than the original.

your right i was thinking to far into it. damn. this is bad news. i might need to get irritated.

[Wile E]

I'm already irritated with the current state of PS3. Very upsetting. Maybe I can find a good price on a used one that I'll keep updated, then I'll closet this original 60GB until it either gains some sort of collector status, or it gets cfw.

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by Wile E

I'm already irritated with the current state of PS3. Very upsetting. Maybe I can find a good price on a used one that I'll keep updated, then I'll closet this original 60GB until it either gains some sort of collector status, or it gets cfw.

apparently the AACS adoption agreement leans tword the adoption of cinavia by companies to be optional. So not all players and or systems will have it even if they were manufactured at the end and after 09. Seeing how popular the PS3 is and how its also the most popular BD player im sure sony was compensated handsomely for enabling it.

[Wile E]

According to someone on Doom 9 that read the agreement, it's optional on the discs, but it won't be optional on the players if they are to be AACS compliant.

[oily_17]

Interesting reading, been thinking of getting a PS3 for this exact thing, playing my discs across the network.
This may well throw a spanner in the works, will have to look out for a second hand unit, maybe.It wont be used for games so not too bad.

Supposedly, you are safe on firmwares before 3.41

Do you know if 3D is enabled in the earlier firmwares ?, as I would be interested in this feature as well.Will have to do some more reading on this.

EDIT:Seems 3D game support was released first and 3D BluRay will be added later, so likely no streaming ripped 3D movies.

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by Wile E

According to someone on Doom 9 that read the agreement, it's optional on the discs, but it won't be optional on the players if they are to be AACS compliant.

sorry for not being clear thats what i meant. they need to have the capability but they wont need to have it enabled.

[Wile E]

Originally Posted by Solaris17

sorry for not being clear thats what i meant. they need to have the capability but they wont need to have it enabled.

Just to be clear on what I was saying, to make sure we are on the same page:

Optional on discs, but mandatory on the hardware.

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by Wile E

Just to be clear on what I was saying, to make sure we are on the same page:

Optional on discs, but mandatory on the hardware.

yes

[Mussels]

since its a very specific audio that is picked up by the PS3, it wont be long before tools exist (or get updated) to remove it from the audio stream.

[slyfox2151]

since its so high up on the frequency, its would be fairly simple to remove it from the audio track.

[95Viper]

Um, I don't use the PS3, but I ran across this, IMO, even if you wished to upgrade the firmware... I would take pause.

Playstation 3 Firmware Update 3.41 Accidentally Bricks Consoles During Hard Drive Upgrades

PlayStation®3 Updates

PS3 Firmware 3.41 causing HDD problems

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by slyfox2151

since its so high up on the frequency, its would be fairly simple to remove it from the audio track.

I was kind of thinking that also. So if you re-encode the audio, and use a good encoded that eliminates everything beyond human hearing, then the watermark should be eliminated, and the protection shouldn't be triggered, right?

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

I was kind of thinking that also. So if you re-encode the audio, and use a good encoded that eliminates everything beyond human hearing, then the watermark should be eliminated, and the protection shouldn't be triggered, right?

you'd need more than a standard re-encoding to pull it off, you'd need some kind of filter to remove the specific frequencies used.

it should be quite possible, just that extra step throws off the casual pirate until the tools catch up.

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by Mussels

you'd need more than a standard re-encoding to pull it off, you'd need some kind of filter to remove the specific frequencies used.

it should be quite possible, just that extra step throws off the casual pirate until the tools catch up.

that wouldnt work at all. the channel lasts the entire audio track and the frequency ranges. it cant be filtered witha simple 15hz pass. and besides that kind of filtering would damage the audio on the track. so its not just "not ment for the casual pirate" their really isnt a point in doing it.