techPowerUp! Forums

Go Back   techPowerUp! Forums > Other > Folding@Home

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Apr 22, 2012, 07:46 PM   #15126
BUCK NASTY
F@H Mod & 4P Enthusiust
 
BUCK NASTY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tallahassee, FL. U.S.A.
Posts: 4,047 (1.91/day)
Thanks: 3,379
Thanked 2,907 Times in 1,474 Posts

System Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by msgclb View Post
I hope so.
How about some more info such as is it that rig in system specs and what client and ppd.
Per your request. I would prob avg 25k ppd on the CPU if I wasn't gaming today. I should move this back over to dedicated folding and crank up the 880G/P-II 965 combo for gaming.


__________________
“I'll finally be able to drool over 8 gpu in one rig... And get sued by my wallet for violent physical damage...” -Feanor

BUCK NASTY is offline  
Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BUCK NASTY For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 22, 2012, 08:02 PM   #15127
popswala
2000 Posts
 
popswala's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Conway, AR
Posts: 2,188 (1.50/day)
Thanks: 1,602
Thanked 960 Times in 717 Posts
Send a message via AIM to popswala Send a message via Yahoo to popswala Send a message via Skype™ to popswala

System Specs

What exactly is SMP? is the folding on the cpu? I use to run it but my rig didn't like it to much iirc. I mite try it again if it is the cpu since I've upgraded it since then.
__________________
HEAT
eBAY
FOLDING GTX 460 SC x2 / 6950 / GTX 275
CRUNCHING I7 870 4.08GHz/ I3 530 3.7GHz / Ph II X4 945 3.2GHzz / Ph II X4 940 3.4GHz / Ph II X3 720 3.4GHz / i7 720QM 1.60GHz = [21c/31t]
popswala is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22, 2012, 08:16 PM   #15128
johnspack
3500 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Nelson B.C. Canada
Posts: 3,730 (1.81/day)
Thanks: 283
Thanked 750 Times in 516 Posts

System Specs

Yes, SMP is cpu folding. I've become very familiar with it! And it sucks due to low ppd. It's not really worth it. I'm going to break 15k, then probably shut down my cpu. It's not worth breaking a $1000 cpu over.....
If you have a 12 thread cpu or better, and use bigadv, then it's worth it. Otherwise, don't bother, it's a waste of power, and money.
__________________
Heatware: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=73875
Clan !! The Fighting 24th !!
http://fxxiv.forumotion.ca/
Buy the games you like! Boycott the garbage!
Cruncher: P6T Xeon ES W3570 6Gbs Ram
1xgtx285 1xgtx260
johnspack is offline  
10 Million points folded for TPU
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22, 2012, 08:31 PM   #15129
popswala
2000 Posts
 
popswala's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Conway, AR
Posts: 2,188 (1.50/day)
Thanks: 1,602
Thanked 960 Times in 717 Posts
Send a message via AIM to popswala Send a message via Yahoo to popswala Send a message via Skype™ to popswala

System Specs

So basically my PH II 940 wouldn't be worth it then I guess. Maybe if I get a better board and be able to oc it some, possibly?
__________________
HEAT
eBAY
FOLDING GTX 460 SC x2 / 6950 / GTX 275
CRUNCHING I7 870 4.08GHz/ I3 530 3.7GHz / Ph II X4 945 3.2GHzz / Ph II X4 940 3.4GHz / Ph II X3 720 3.4GHz / i7 720QM 1.60GHz = [21c/31t]
popswala is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22, 2012, 10:43 PM   #15130
hertz9753
1000 Posts
 
hertz9753's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 1,047 (0.77/day)
Thanks: 1,897
Thanked 460 Times in 305 Posts

System Specs

I have folded 3 6900's since the begining of December. I have been getting a lot of the 10136 wu's.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	4.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	91.9 KB
ID:	46742  
__________________
I don't have anything to fold with.

“That PSU looks like an Octopus attacking that rig” -BUCK NASTY
hertz9753 is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to hertz9753 For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 23, 2012, 09:44 AM   #15131
Athlonite
1000 Posts
 
Athlonite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Napier, New Zealand
Posts: 1,386 (1.15/day)
Thanks: 283
Thanked 441 Times in 345 Posts
Send a message via MSN to Athlonite Send a message via Skype™ to Athlonite

System Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by popswala View Post
So basically my PH II 940 wouldn't be worth it then I guess. Maybe if I get a better board and be able to oc it some, possibly?
it's always worth it SMP should run fine but like me don't expect a mountain of points on th PII x4 940 but the good thing is you wont need alot of CPU time to run an GPU slot aswell so you should be able to do fairly well on your system I was averaging around 14~15k on mine
__________________
Athlonite is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26, 2012, 02:13 AM   #15132
hertz9753
1000 Posts
 
hertz9753's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 1,047 (0.77/day)
Thanks: 1,897
Thanked 460 Times in 305 Posts

System Specs

I love the GPU3 8019 wu's. This is on a stock GTX 470.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	7.PNG
Views:	37
Size:	188.9 KB
ID:	46819  
__________________
I don't have anything to fold with.

“That PSU looks like an Octopus attacking that rig” -BUCK NASTY
hertz9753 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26, 2012, 02:45 AM   #15133
thebluebumblebee
2000 Posts
 
thebluebumblebee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Portland, OR USA
Posts: 2,143 (1.20/day)
Thanks: 1,559
Thanked 882 Times in 628 Posts

System Specs

Am I the last to know this? HFM.NET works with V7!
__________________


I got this because I am a fan of the simplistic sleek look of a computer case that doesn't look like Optimus Prime just threw up on my desk with enough LED's to land a commercial airliner. review P280 Newegg.com
thebluebumblebee is offline  
25 Million points folded for TPU
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26, 2012, 11:28 AM   #15134
BUCK NASTY
F@H Mod & 4P Enthusiust
 
BUCK NASTY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tallahassee, FL. U.S.A.
Posts: 4,047 (1.91/day)
Thanks: 3,379
Thanked 2,907 Times in 1,474 Posts

System Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by hertz9753 View Post
I love the GPU3 8019 wu's. This is on a stock GTX 470.
I agree, but the 7xxx WU's are giving me a fit right now. I cannot get more than 89% GPU usage regardless of CPU affinity or priority. PPD is only 8800 on GTX460's. I may have to delete them and hope for a different WU.
__________________
“I'll finally be able to drool over 8 gpu in one rig... And get sued by my wallet for violent physical damage...” -Feanor


Last edited by BUCK NASTY; Apr 26, 2012 at 11:35 AM.
BUCK NASTY is offline  
Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26, 2012, 01:18 PM   #15135
msgclb
1000 Posts
 
msgclb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 1,709 (0.93/day)
Thanks: 572
Thanked 4,284 Times in 1,071 Posts

System Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUCK NASTY View Post
I agree, but the 7xxx WU's are giving me a fit right now. I cannot get more than 89% GPU usage regardless of CPU affinity or priority. PPD is only 8800 on GTX460's. I may have to delete them and hope for a different WU.
What I've read over on the folding forum is that up until now the limiting factor was the GPU but with this WU something else is the limiting factor. My guess is they don't know. Still the PPD is lousy.

More!
I spotted this on the folding forum.

Project #764x 80% GPU use solved?

Notice the ? after solved! I'd like to see a GTX 680 using PCIe 3.0 motherboard.

There are more threads on this subject on that forum.

Last edited by msgclb; Apr 26, 2012 at 04:09 PM.
msgclb is offline  
50 Million points folded for TPU
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to msgclb For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 26, 2012, 05:29 PM   #15136
BUCK NASTY
F@H Mod & 4P Enthusiust
 
BUCK NASTY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tallahassee, FL. U.S.A.
Posts: 4,047 (1.91/day)
Thanks: 3,379
Thanked 2,907 Times in 1,474 Posts

System Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by msgclb View Post
What I've read over on the folding forum is that up until now the limiting factor was the GPU but with this WU something else is the limiting factor. My guess is they don't know. Still the PPD is lousy.

More!
I spotted this on the folding forum.

Project #764x 80% GPU use solved?

Notice the ? after solved! I'd like to see a GTX 680 using PCIe 3.0 motherboard.

There are more threads on this subject on that forum.
Thanks msgclb. I'll try a few other settings(memory, etc..) and see if that has any effect. If there is a PCI-e bus limitation, they need to adjust the points to compensate. This is what I dislike about Pande group and their radical changes. You simply cannot exceed the capacity of the donor systems without affecting morale.
__________________
“I'll finally be able to drool over 8 gpu in one rig... And get sued by my wallet for violent physical damage...” -Feanor

BUCK NASTY is offline  
Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26, 2012, 05:40 PM   #15137
KieX
2000 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: A Coruña, Spain
Posts: 2,050 (1.64/day)
Thanks: 6,950
Thanked 2,643 Times in 1,136 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to KieX

System Specs

So, starting to plan for the CC, hoping to get some idea of numbers. What kind of PPD should I expect out of a 560Ti? And what's the minimum number of cores for bigadv these days?
__________________
KieX is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26, 2012, 07:05 PM   #15138
Athlonite
1000 Posts
 
Athlonite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Napier, New Zealand
Posts: 1,386 (1.15/day)
Thanks: 283
Thanked 441 Times in 345 Posts
Send a message via MSN to Athlonite Send a message via Skype™ to Athlonite

System Specs

fairly reasonable PPD I would expect outta that 560Ti and bigadv = 8 cores min ie 8 actual cores or 4+4 HT threads
__________________
Athlonite is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Athlonite For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 26, 2012, 07:11 PM   #15139
KieX
2000 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: A Coruña, Spain
Posts: 2,050 (1.64/day)
Thanks: 6,950
Thanked 2,643 Times in 1,136 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to KieX

System Specs

Guess I'll fire it up over weekend and find out.
__________________
KieX is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26, 2012, 09:03 PM   #15140
thebluebumblebee
2000 Posts
 
thebluebumblebee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Portland, OR USA
Posts: 2,143 (1.20/day)
Thanks: 1,559
Thanked 882 Times in 628 Posts

System Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by BUCK NASTY View Post
I agree, but the 7xxx WU's are giving me a fit right now. I cannot get more than 89% GPU usage regardless of CPU affinity or priority. PPD is only 8800 on GTX460's. I may have to delete them and hope for a different WU.
Now you know what I was howling about. Reduced my PPD by 2/3's. The 285.62 driver does work with them better than the newer drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msgclb View Post
What I've read over on the folding forum is that up until now the limiting factor was the GPU but with this WU something else is the limiting factor. My guess is they don't know. Still the PPD is lousy.

More!
I spotted this on the folding forum.

Project #764x 80% GPU use solved?

Notice the ? after solved! I'd like to see a GTX 680 using PCIe 3.0 motherboard.

There are more threads on this subject on that forum.
IIRC, someone with PCI-e 3.0 was having the same problem. There's a bug in Core_15 and they don't have a clue. And is underclocking your GPU to get higher utilization really a solution?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KieX View Post
So, starting to plan for the CC, hoping to get some idea of numbers. What kind of PPD should I expect out of a 560Ti? And what's the minimum number of cores for bigadv these days?
560Ti PPD=13,000 +/- according to the WU's
-bigadv now needs 16 threads!
__________________


I got this because I am a fan of the simplistic sleek look of a computer case that doesn't look like Optimus Prime just threw up on my desk with enough LED's to land a commercial airliner. review P280 Newegg.com
thebluebumblebee is offline  
25 Million points folded for TPU
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to thebluebumblebee For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 28, 2012, 02:12 AM   #15141
johnspack
3500 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Nelson B.C. Canada
Posts: 3,730 (1.81/day)
Thanks: 283
Thanked 750 Times in 516 Posts

System Specs

Nice to see you back Hertz! We missed you! You were one of my inspirations on the road to folding, it's why I've almost got 16mil points pumped out. You helped me to be able to do that, along with some others of course. Really good to see you back!
__________________
Heatware: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=73875
Clan !! The Fighting 24th !!
http://fxxiv.forumotion.ca/
Buy the games you like! Boycott the garbage!
Cruncher: P6T Xeon ES W3570 6Gbs Ram
1xgtx285 1xgtx260
johnspack is offline  
10 Million points folded for TPU
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to johnspack For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 28, 2012, 02:44 AM   #15142
hertz9753
1000 Posts
 
hertz9753's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 1,047 (0.77/day)
Thanks: 1,897
Thanked 460 Times in 305 Posts

System Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnspack View Post
Nice to see you back Hertz! We missed you! You were one of my inspirations on the road to folding, it's why I've almost got 16mil points pumped out. You helped me to be able to do that, along with some others of course. Really good to see you back!
Thank you Pete.
__________________
I don't have anything to fold with.

“That PSU looks like an Octopus attacking that rig” -BUCK NASTY
hertz9753 is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to hertz9753 For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 28, 2012, 02:50 AM   #15143
johnspack
3500 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Nelson B.C. Canada
Posts: 3,730 (1.81/day)
Thanks: 283
Thanked 750 Times in 516 Posts

System Specs

And I'll keep the i7 going after I crack 15th as well. But I really need a 970.........
__________________
Heatware: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=73875
Clan !! The Fighting 24th !!
http://fxxiv.forumotion.ca/
Buy the games you like! Boycott the garbage!
Cruncher: P6T Xeon ES W3570 6Gbs Ram
1xgtx285 1xgtx260
johnspack is offline  
10 Million points folded for TPU
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to johnspack For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 28, 2012, 04:13 AM   #15144
Athlonite
1000 Posts
 
Athlonite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Napier, New Zealand
Posts: 1,386 (1.15/day)
Thanks: 283
Thanked 441 Times in 345 Posts
Send a message via MSN to Athlonite Send a message via Skype™ to Athlonite

System Specs

god damn it I keep getting this error ::::

*********************** Log Started 2012-04-27T03:36:31Z ***********************
03:36:31:WARNING:WU06:FS02:Past final deadline 2012-02-04T01:49:57Z, dumping
03:36:31:WARNING:WU03:FS02:Past final deadline 2012-02-04T01:49:56Z, dumping
03:36:33:ERROR:WU01:FS01:Exception: 10001: Server responded: HTTP_INTERNAL_SERVER_ERROR
09:10:10:WARNING:WU02:FS02:Detected clock skew, adjusting time estimates
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
09:10:10:WARNING:WU02:FS02:Detected clock skew, adjusting time estimates
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
09:10:10:WARNING:WU02:FS02:Detected clock skew, adjusting time estimates
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
09:10:10:WARNING:WU02:FS02:Detected clock skew, adjusting time estimates
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
09:10:10:WARNING:WU02:FS02:Detected clock skew, adjusting time estimates
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
09:10:10:WARNING:WU02:FS02:Detected clock skew, adjusting time estimates
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
09:10:10:WARNING:WU02:FS02:Detected clock skew, adjusting time estimates
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
09:10:10:WARNING:WU02:FS02:Detected clock skew, adjusting time estimates
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
09:10:10:WARNING:WU02:FS02:Detected clock skew, adjusting time estimates
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
09:10:10:WARNING:WU02:FS02:Detected clock skew, adjusting time estimates
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 28/04/12 ********************************
09:10:10:WARNING:WU02:FS02:Detected clock skew, adjusting time estimates
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 27/04/12 ********************************
******************************** Date: 28/04/12 ********************************
and theres nothing wrong with my clock bah I'm shutting it down once these units are finished
__________________
Athlonite is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 28, 2012, 04:55 AM   #15145
hertz9753
1000 Posts
 
hertz9753's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 1,047 (0.77/day)
Thanks: 1,897
Thanked 460 Times in 305 Posts

System Specs

Is that the clock in Windows or bios, battery?
__________________
I don't have anything to fold with.

“That PSU looks like an Octopus attacking that rig” -BUCK NASTY
hertz9753 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 28, 2012, 05:27 AM   #15146
thebluebumblebee
2000 Posts
 
thebluebumblebee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Portland, OR USA
Posts: 2,143 (1.20/day)
Thanks: 1,559
Thanked 882 Times in 628 Posts

System Specs

The "WARNING:WU02:FS02etected clock skew, adjusting time estimates" statement is just what the client throws when the WU is getting done faster or slower than the client thought it would.

Those first errors, though, appear to indicate that you had a WU expire in the beginning of the month????
__________________


I got this because I am a fan of the simplistic sleek look of a computer case that doesn't look like Optimus Prime just threw up on my desk with enough LED's to land a commercial airliner. review P280 Newegg.com
thebluebumblebee is offline  
25 Million points folded for TPU
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to thebluebumblebee For This Useful Post:
Old Apr 28, 2012, 05:49 PM   #15147
Athlonite
1000 Posts
 
Athlonite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Napier, New Zealand
Posts: 1,386 (1.15/day)
Thanks: 283
Thanked 441 Times in 345 Posts
Send a message via MSN to Athlonite Send a message via Skype™ to Athlonite

System Specs

yeah left overs from when I stopped folding and before I updated to 7.1.52 don't worry about them I'm not

the thing thats getting me now is somewhere I've finished 68 WU's GPU/SMP combined since wednesday 26th but EOC is only showing that i've done 7 so I'm missing a butt load of points
__________________
Athlonite is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2012, 05:55 AM   #15148
mstenholm
1000 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,772 (1.37/day)
Thanks: 1,009
Thanked 1,048 Times in 644 Posts

System Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by msgclb View Post
[/URL]
I'd like to see a GTX 680 using PCIe 3.0 motherboard.

There are more threads on this subject on that forum.
From the folding forum

Re: GTX 680 won't fold

New post by AciD_RaiN » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:34 pm
BTW: The GTX 680 can work as two GPUs if you add it as gpu-index 0 and 1 it's running as gf:114 and gk:104 at 37-45k PPD

Interesting!

Edit: Just ordered a Asus (the triple slot one) but it is in back order. I will update later.

Last edited by mstenholm; Apr 30, 2012 at 06:08 AM.
mstenholm is offline  
Crunching for Team TPU
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mstenholm For This Useful Post:
Old May 3, 2012, 02:28 AM   #15149
popswala
2000 Posts
 
popswala's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Conway, AR
Posts: 2,188 (1.50/day)
Thanks: 1,602
Thanked 960 Times in 717 Posts
Send a message via AIM to popswala Send a message via Yahoo to popswala Send a message via Skype™ to popswala

System Specs

Worth a shot.
Anyone got an extra nvidia gpu layin around (that'll get pretty good ppd) they can donate to me to help with Chimp? I have an extra slot open. PM me to work something out.

Why isn't there a Folders helping folders thread like over in wcg? JW.
__________________
HEAT
eBAY
FOLDING GTX 460 SC x2 / 6950 / GTX 275
CRUNCHING I7 870 4.08GHz/ I3 530 3.7GHz / Ph II X4 945 3.2GHzz / Ph II X4 940 3.4GHz / Ph II X3 720 3.4GHz / i7 720QM 1.60GHz = [21c/31t]
popswala is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 02:38 AM   #15150
hertz9753
1000 Posts
 
hertz9753's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 1,047 (0.77/day)
Thanks: 1,897
Thanked 460 Times in 305 Posts

System Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by popswala View Post
Worth a shot.
Anyone got an extra nvidia gpu layin around (that'll get pretty good ppd) they can donate to me to help with Chimp? I have an extra slot open. PM me to work something out.

Why isn't there a Folders helping folders thread like over in wcg? JW.
I have an Evga GTX 275-co-op.
__________________
I don't have anything to fold with.

“That PSU looks like an Octopus attacking that rig” -BUCK NASTY
hertz9753 is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to hertz9753 For This Useful Post:
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
no new posts