Suggestions for a second system

[[Ion]]

Hello all

I'm looking to build a 2nd system to complement my i7 setup (see specs). It would have several potential uses, not all of which necessarily overlap. But first are the requirements:

• I'd definitely like something small. I'm undecided if it should be toaster-small or book-small.
• It needs to be quiet. Not silent, but barely audible
• It needs to be low power (to be explained more below)
• It needs to be affordable ($500 at most, but I'd like it to be a decent bit less)

I'm planning on the following uses:

• General-purpose use (web, word processing, etc)
• Downloading (torrents, etc)
• WCG: Whenever it's on, it'll be crunching
• Watching pre-ripped high-def and standard-def movies
• A portable gaming box. I don't like to take my i7 with me for gaming when I go places, it's a bit large and I'm afraid it might get damaged. This is the least important use and I would be willing to sacrifice it if needed. It wouldn't have to play Crysis, just Halo 2 or DiRT 2 at lower settings.
• Potential future use: file server. Throw in a 500gb+ disk and use it to store files for the entire family

I already have a keyboard, mouse, and LCD. I have a 2GB DDR3 SO-DIMM, a 2.5" disk, and a GTS 450.

So far I'm considering the following:

A custom Atom setup. This has the advantage that I could put my GTS450 in it and have some real GPU power.


A custom i3 setup. This would clearly be the fastest of all of these, and would certainly be enough for even gaming (again w/ the GTS450). Would also completely destroy everything else for WCG. However, it is more expensive.


I've always wanted an Ion, especially given my username
Also, tiny & very low power. However, definitely wouldn't be enough for gaming or any other CPU-intensive applications.


The cheapest option, but I'm not sure I necessarily want that....


About the same price as an Atom/ION setup (don't need RAM, I have DDR3 for it) and probably faster.

My plan was to purchase within the next month, but I could wait longer if the Sandy Bridge Core i3s are coming out soon

[Fourstaff]

The i3 is just under 1.5 times the cheapest option (price wise), and the i3 is easily 2 times better than the Ion based setup (performance wise), so long as you are not bothered too much about the electricity bills, the i3 should be the obvious choice. I wouldn't choose any Ion based setup for gaming, it can barely support Warcraft 3.

[mstenholm]

With the size constrictions you are down to a lappy (not up to date on US-toaster size though). Not very useful I know. My money would be on a sub 45 W Sandy, ergo wait.

[[Ion]]

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

The i3 is just under 1.5 times the cheapest option (price wise), and the i3 is easily 2 times better than the Ion based setup (performance wise), so long as you are not bothered too much about the electricity bills, the i3 should be the obvious choice. I wouldn't choose any Ion based setup for gaming, it can barely support Warcraft 3.

That was my thought. The i3 is definitely the most upgradeable as well.

With the i3 setup, I'd probably run on the IGP most of the time & only add the GTS450 when I wanted to game. However, with the Atom, I'd probably have to leave it in for video decoding and flash acceleration.

So the Atom + GTS450 would very likely use more power than the i3 setup...

Originally Posted by mstenholm

With the size constrictions you are down to a lappy (not up to date on US-toaster size though). Not very useful I know. My money would be on a sub 45 W Sandy, ergo wait.

The Zotac options are about book-sized.

A US toaster is about 6x6x12 inches (15x15x30cm)

[wolf]

why not look at a new AMD zacate setup, they seem to perform better than atom+ion across the board.

my vote would be either that, or the i3 setup, and if you yearn for more power a low profile discrete gfx card can fit the bill.

[[Ion]]

Originally Posted by wolf

why not look at a new AMD zacate setup, they seem to perform better than atom+ion across the board.

my vote would be either that, or the i3 setup, and if you yearn for more power a low profile discrete gfx card can fit the bill.

Brazos? What I saw on Anandtech is that it had a (somewhat) better GPU but a slower CPU.

The advantage of the i3 or custom Atom setup I have configured is they can take any GPU up to a Geforce GTX 570, so my GTS450 would definitely work (and be plenty fast)

[p_o_s_pc]

I would go i3 or the AMD one.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by [Ion]

Brazos? What I saw on Anandtech is that it had a (somewhat) better GPU but a slower CPU.

The advantage of the i3 or custom Atom setup I have configured is they can take any GPU up to a Geforce GTX 570, so my GTS450 would definitely work (and be plenty fast)

yeah brazos thats what i meant, but your point is great, in which case my bet is on the i3 system, an atom is a very weak CPU.

[[Ion]]

Originally Posted by p_o_s_pc

I would go i3 or the AMD one.

By this do you mean the Neo X2?

Originally Posted by wolf

yeah brazos thats what i meant, but your point is great, in which case my bet is on the i3 system, an atom is a very weak CPU.

Ahh, I see.

Here's what I've been thinking: Gaming is really the only thing where something faster than an i3 or CULV is really needed. For everything else (downloading, file sharing, video playing, general use), an Atom would be fine. If I go all-out and get an i3 and use the GTS450, it seems to me like this would be too much like my current system. Yes, it would be smaller, but not appreciably different (other than slower). With the Atom, on the other hand, it could be practically silent and use virtually no power (and be tiny if I went with one of the Zotac things). No, this isn't just an argument against the i3, I quite like the thought of having more power. It's just my (likely illogical) thinking at the moment

[p_o_s_pc]

@ion yes i mean the Neo X2. That is the only amd on the list.

The only problem i see with the i3 is its going to take more power and will take a heatsink with a fan to keep it cool. But with alittle undervolting i'm sure you could get the tdp down and the fan to run nearly silent.

I like the idea of the i3 the best but the best if you want "green" is a Atom or Atom+Ion

[cdawall]

the zotac isn't that great of a mobo i would get the GB H55N-USB3 instead thats what i run in my SG05-B

[[Ion]]

Originally Posted by p_o_s_pc

@ion yes i mean the Neo X2. That is the only amd on the list.

The only problem i see with the i3 is its going to take more power and will take a heatsink with a fan to keep it cool. But with alittle undervolting i'm sure you could get the tdp down and the fan to run nearly silent.

I like the idea of the i3 the best but the best if you want "green" is a Atom or Atom+Ion

I didn't know if you meant wait for Brazos or whatever

I don't know if the ITX boards allow undervolting, that would be something to investigate. If so, I could always underclock/undervolt down to 2.5ghz and save some power & noise and still have the fastest option.

I like the idea of the Atom setup because then I can throw a GPU in when needed, and without the GPU it would probably be practically silent and sub-50w.

Originally Posted by cdawall

the zotac isn't that great of a mobo i would get the GB H55N-USB3 instead thats what i run in my SG05-B

I'm not opposed to this, but why? What does the GB have going for it that the Zotac doesn't? I really like the internal WiFi of the Zotac, although I guess a USB card could be acquired

[wolf]

I was just about to suggest that [Ion], undervolt/underclock the i3 to get power consumption and heat/noise down, hec turn on all those speedstep options we hate oh so much usually :P

If the mini ITX board is decent enough, it should allow you to get it running on a pitence worth of electricity. the i3 @ 2ghz would still cream the atom a few times over and feel a lot peppier even while browsing and file sharing etc.

you still make a kickass point about the atom, it will be a vastly efficient little PC, but it doesnt give you much leeway if you were to choose to game at any point. best case scenario IMO would be a mini ITX board with the i3, and one that allows OC profiles, so you have one for the normal use (minimal power and heat) and one stock or overclocked for if you were to want to take it and game.

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by [Ion]

I'm not opposed to this, but why? What does the GB have going for it that the Zotac doesn't? I really like the internal WiFi of the Zotac, although I guess a USB card could be acquired

better for everything in the BIOS. right now i am running an i3 560@200x21 and its not even sweating runs cool in the SG05B with an H70

[[Ion]]

Originally Posted by wolf

I was just about to suggest that [Ion], undervolt/underclock the i3 to get power consumption and heat/noise down, hec turn on all those speedstep options we hate oh so much usually :P

If the mini ITX board is decent enough, it should allow you to get it running on a pitence worth of electricity. the i3 @ 2ghz would still cream the atom a few times over and feel a lot peppier even while browsing and file sharing etc.

you still make a kickass point about the atom, it will be a vastly efficient little PC, but it doesnt give you much leeway if you were to choose to game at any point. best case scenario IMO would be a mini ITX board with the i3, and one that allows OC profiles, so you have one for the normal use (minimal power and heat) and one stock or overclocked for if you were to want to take it and game.

Thank you very much for writing this out for me. You've convinced me. Assuming the deal I have pending ATM goes through (and it should) I think the i3 it is.

It should certainly put a hurting on the Atom for pretty much anything, and then games should be able to take full advantage of the GTS450.

I'll have to see if the GB board allows OC profiles, even if not, it still looks like the setup to get...

Originally Posted by cdawall

better for everything in the BIOS. right now i am running an i3 560@200x21 and its not even sweating runs cool in the SG05B with an H70

Aha, cool, the Gigabyte it is then. Do you think an i3 550 could do much OCing w/ a stock cooler?
Do you think there's any compelling reason to get a different case, or will the SG05 be fine?

[wolf]

Originally Posted by [Ion]

Thank you very much for writing this out for me. You've convinced me. Assuming the deal I have pending ATM goes through (and it should) I think the i3 it is.

It should certainly put a hurting on the Atom for pretty much anything, and then games should be able to take full advantage of the GTS450.

I'll have to see if the GB board allows OC profiles, even if not, it still looks like the setup to get...

yeah the gigabyte mini ITX H55 is a little beauty of a board.

Originally Posted by [Ion]

Aha, cool, the Gigabyte it is then. Do you think an i3 550 could do much OCing w/ a stock cooler?
Do you think there's any compelling reason to get a different case, or will the SG05 be fine?

I think as long as you oc on stock votlage you can probably squeeze some more mhz out on the stock cooler, maybe something in the range of 3.5ghz, which is pleeenty for some light gaming.

[Bo$$]

Originally Posted by wolf

hec turn on all those speedstep options we hate oh so much usually :P

HEC make mobos?????

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Bo$$

HEC make mobos?????

lol no i mean like "oh hec go for it"

speedstep and C1E states will get the power consumption at idle on the i3 right down.

[Bo$$]

Originally Posted by wolf

lol no i mean like "oh hec go for it"

speedstep and C1E states will get the power consumption at idle on the i3 right down.

oh 'heck' i got you now

[morpha]

I did build a $600 ITX rig at one stage. You can see my SIG for a link to the old thread.

My Suggestion for case is the Antec mini-ITX case. But make sure you look at all the other non-gaming brandnames. Look at cases made by Aywun.

Go Zotac for the motherboard they make EXCELENT mini-itx boards. I've had two now and loved them both.

Screw a graphics card. You want a computer to do word processing, so It doesnt need it. The New AMD fusion or Sandybridge on-chip stuff isnt particyularly great atm but in future itll be awesome. In the meantime just get something with decent onboard and HDMI output.

I didnt get an ION because I wanted a CPU that could actually DO stuff. Im still on s775 and there was some good cheap 45nm chips that do wonderfully. If you manage to get a cpu that doesnt chew much power look at getting a BRICK powersupply and not a PSU, they will be much quieter and more efficient.

Both cases ive had previously had little mini psu's that had noisy fans... or they created tonnes of heat...

[JrRacinFan]

Originally Posted by [Ion]

Thank you very much for writing this out for me. You've convinced me. Assuming the deal I have pending ATM goes through (and it should) I think the i3 it is.

It should certainly put a hurting on the Atom for pretty much anything, and then games should be able to take full advantage of the GTS450.

I'll have to see if the GB board allows OC profiles, even if not, it still looks like the setup to get...


Aha, cool, the Gigabyte it is then. Do you think an i3 550 could do much OCing w/ a stock cooler?
Do you think there's any compelling reason to get a different case, or will the SG05 be fine?

You know the i3 530 in specs? I ran that at 4Ghz under stock cooling. Never an issue. Now with having the Dark Knight involved it's inaudible. I just keep it at 3.6Ghz to make sure it makes NO NOISE at all.

I don't foresee a different case being needed, I like the SG05....

How would you feel about something that is a little over a foot tall & would help with airflow and keeping thing silent?
IN WIN Dragon Slayer Black 0.6mm SECC MicroATX Min...

[[Ion]]

Originally Posted by Bo$$

oh 'heck' i got you now

Originally Posted by morpha

I did build a $600 ITX rig at one stage. You can see my SIG for a link to the old thread.

My Suggestion for case is the Antec mini-ITX case. But make sure you look at all the other non-gaming brandnames. Look at cases made by Aywun.

Go Zotac for the motherboard they make EXCELENT mini-itx boards. I've had two now and loved them both.

Screw a graphics card. You want a computer to do word processing, so It doesnt need it. The New AMD fusion or Sandybridge on-chip stuff isnt particyularly great atm but in future itll be awesome. In the meantime just get something with decent onboard and HDMI output.

I didnt get an ION because I wanted a CPU that could actually DO stuff. Im still on s775 and there was some good cheap 45nm chips that do wonderfully. If you manage to get a cpu that doesnt chew much power look at getting a BRICK powersupply and not a PSU, they will be much quieter and more efficient.

Both cases ive had previously had little mini psu's that had noisy fans... or they created tonnes of heat...

I've already looked at the Antec ISK cases, and, honestly, I'd rather have the extra space so I can add my dedicated GPU when I decide to game. I already have the card, I'd like to make use of it.

I'm receiving conflicting opinions here. You say that the Zotac is the board to get, while I hear from cda to get the Gigabyte. I've had one Zotac ITX board (GF9300-D-E) and I was disappointed by the BIOS options (or lack thereof) and it's unique habit of overheating without a fan pointed directly at the NB cooler....

The PSU in the SG05 is very quiet, no fan or capacitor noise

Originally Posted by JrRacinFan

You know the i3 530 in specs? I ran that at 4Ghz under stock cooling. Never an issue. Now with having the Dark Knight involved it's inaudible. I just keep it at 3.6Ghz to make sure it makes NO NOISE at all.

I don't foresee a different case being needed, I like the SG05....

How would you feel about something that is a little over a foot tall & would help with airflow and keeping thing silent?
IN WIN Dragon Slayer Black 0.6mm SECC MicroATX Min...

That's great to hear. I guess I'll want to experiment around to see what the best balance between performance & noise/power usage I can find.

I've already had the SG05 with one system before (about a year and a half ago, I built a setup with a Q9400, a Zotac board, and the SG05)

Honestly, that's one of the ugliest cases I've ever seen (and that's hard with things like the HAF X). Beyond that, it's significantly larger than I want, even the SG05 is a significant setup up from the Zotac setups I was looking at in terms of size.

[morpha]

The only time I had a problem with Overheating on either of my Zotacs was on 40 degree Celsius (thats over 100 Fahrenheit) days when it was in a spot with bad airflow.

The early model Zotac board that I had originaly DID have horrible bios options for overclocking... But thats not exactly the market mini-ITX goes for. The new board I have has some great options...

[JrRacinFan]

http://www.xoxide.com/bgears-benvi-black.html
Could go with the case I got for our HTPC. Only difference between that and the SG05 in terms of size is this case is longer, but height and width are near the same. I am just trying to assist in shopping, giving you cheaper alternatives. Oh it also comes with a 2.5" USB hotswap and Flash card reader.

[[Ion]]

Originally Posted by morpha

The only time I had a problem with Overheating on either of my Zotacs was on 40 degree Celsius (thats over 100 Fahrenheit) days when it was in a spot with bad airflow.

The early model Zotac board that I had originaly DID have horrible bios options for overclocking... But thats not exactly the market mini-ITX goes for. The new board I have has some great options...

Mine had terrible issues with overheating, I spent far too much time diagnosing it

It wasn't the overclocking options that I objected to. More of an issue was an inability to undervolt/underclock.

While it was a fine system, the Zotac board kind of left me with a bit of a poor taste for the quality of their products...

Originally Posted by JrRacinFan

http://www.xoxide.com/bgears-benvi-black.html
Could go with the case I got for our HTPC. Only difference between that and the SG05 in terms of size is this case is longer, but height and width are near the same.

I'll check it out