Qubit finally upgrades his CPU!

[qubit]

Yup, after 2 years I've upgraded my E8500 dual core to a Q9550 quaddie!

Overclockers have dumped a load of stuff in their clearance section today and this little gem was among them, in OEM form - and they only had one.

It cost me £160 all in. These are long discontinued, so where you can still find them, you can get them in retail boxes for about £230, so this is a good saving.

I hope to run it at close to the same 4.11GHz overclock as my E8500, so I'll have the same performance per core, but two more of them. This will give my system a nice mid life boost.

Ideally, I'd like to get the i5-2500K, but together with a new mobo, RAM & cooler to go with it I'm looking at around £350, which ain't gonna happen.

At the time of writing, the Q9550S is still there at £200 + shipping, if anyone wants it. However, I read a couple of reviews on the S version and it doesn't sound worthy of the price premium. Crucially, it didn't overclock any better and power usage wasn't any less when overclocked. The review at Hot Hardware was the decider for me.

To all those that don't like Overclockers: I don't much either and I tend to just buy one-offs like this when they come along.

Finally, I'll likely be getting a GTX 560 in a month or two, when ATI have had their price drops, which will lower the prices of these cards. I'll be getting a reference model, for the extreme quietness of its cooler.

[francis511]

Nice price and check the news for update on sandy bridge !

[micropage7]

wow, thats pretty enough for today
ive run my quad core AMD for kinda 2 years and still feel its over kill

[qubit]

Thanks people.

Yes, my PC doesn't feel slow at all, especially with that oc to 4.11GHz. It's still nice to have 4 cores though - and an enthusiast doesn't really need much more of a reason to upgrade than he wants something better. The nice thing about this chip, is that it quite literally is two E8500s stuck on one die and not lacking in any way such as process technology or features. I'm really looking forward to receiving it tomorrow.

These deals don't come along very often and one has to be looking at the right moment to take advantage of them. In the graphics card section, there was a brand new Zotac GTX 480 going for £180 - not B-grade or anything. Again, another great deal. I could have got it if I wanted and didn't mind my credit card catching fire again.

[francis511]

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=GX-135-OK

Or this !

[qubit]

Yes, that's quite a lot of performance for the money, francis.

Like the tiny cat sig.

[mstenholm]

Do you think that your Zalman can keep 4.1 GHz quad cool enough? I know that cool enough is very subjective but I go for overkill when it come to cooling (except my lappy that runs between 65 and 85 all day, but thats a company PC). Best of luck. If it wasn't for the fact that my MB doesn't support quads I would have done the swap long ago.

[qubit]

I think so - at the most I'll have to up the revs a bit. It's running almost at minimum as it is on my E8500 without breaking sweat.

And if not, it'll be time for another little upgrade...

Oh and guess what: I told my mate at work about this purchase and it turns out that he's upgraded to an i5-2500K and is selling his old i5-760 & mobo. I'll have a more detailed discussion with him today about it, so I might just get that and return the CPU. I'll have to get some DDR3 and possibly a heatsink for it though, so the detail's in the overall cost.

[qubit]

Ok, I've received the CPU. Being "OEM" it came in the usual generic little white box. You would therefore, expect it to be new and unused. It was not sold as B-grade, which they state may be a used item.

However, it actually does appear to be used, as it has some very obvious scuff marks on it from the cooler - see pics. Note that the "black mark" at the top left is actually shiny metal, but scratched. The flash simply makes it look black, because the light is reflecting the other way.

I suspected this might happen, but hoped it wouldn't. But then this is Overclockers, innit?

This brings up the following issues:

- I've been sold something used as new. This is fraud. Obviously, a second hand part would have been cheaper
- I don't know its history. Has it been overclocked to hell and back? Stressed out? Overheated? You name it
- What damage has it sustained? Likely hidden damage, too
- This isn't something I can buy again at this price (£160). New retail ones, where you can still find them, are about £230; far too much money to be worth it


And now to add to the story, my good friend from work has an i5 760 and Gigabyte GA-P55-UD5 he wants to sell for £220. They are only a few months old, have all the boxes and packaging and I know that he's looked after them very well. I bought some RAM from him a couple of years ago and it's been ace.

I would have to add RAM and a cooler, which would bring the cost to around £270 - £290, which is a lot more than I want to spend right now on a PC upgrade, that to be honest, I don't strictly need. I would really like to have a quad core CPU though and for some time too. An equivalent Sandy Bridge i5 2500K upgrade that I would really like would be around £380 total and out of the question right now.

So, fellow enthusiasts, I would like your opinions please on whether I should stay with it or return it and just stay with what I've got?

Should I buy the CPU & mobo from my friend, perhaps?

[scaminatrix]

As much as I hate OCUK, if it works and clocks ok, then it's all good-ish.

If it happened to me though, I'd start looking at the legal side of things... Fraud is fraud.

[newtekie1]

I'd RMA it and demand they pay for the return shipping, and refund your original shipping cost, or you will report them to the authorties. The only problem you have is that they don't really tell you what B Grade means on their site. There are forum posts about it, but nothing official on the site. But if they didn't tell you anywhere on the page for the processor you bought that it was used, then they can't sell a used product as new.

[Frick]

I wouldn't bother if it works, but that's just me. I agree with newtekie.

[qubit]

Thanks people.

Originally Posted by scaminatrix

As much as I hate OCUK, if it works and clocks ok, then it's all good-ish.

If it happened to me though, I'd start looking at the legal side of things... Fraud is fraud.

Originally Posted by newtekie1

I'd RMA it and demand they pay for the return shipping, and refund your original shipping cost, or you will report them to the authorties. The only problem you have is that they don't really tell you what B Grade means on their site. There are forum posts about it, but nothing official on the site. But if they didn't tell you anywhere on the page for the processor you bought that it was used, then they can't sell a used product as new.

Originally Posted by Frick

I wouldn't bother if it works, but that's just me. I agree with newtekie.

NT: I have to admit that my feeling was to do this and it helps to hear it from others such as yourself. I will most likely return it.
EDIT: Indeed, they don't say what b grade means now, but they used to, the sneaky bastards. It was open box, used or repaired items. However, this CPU is simply sold as "OEM", with no mention of used, so yeah, it's fraud. It actually has this very description on the paper receipt sent with it and in the order email, so I have proof.

Like the others here, it's tempting to just try it and keep it if it works due to the rarity and price of this product now, but I know this is wrong, because it's never right to accept being defrauded.


scami & frick: something I didn't think about when I posted was what if it's bad and kills my mobo? I'd have a real headache then, wouldn't I? Given it was sold under false pretenses, this should not be ruled out.

Damn, this is so frustrating. I just wanted to get a cheapie upgrade and be happy with it.

[FreedomEclipse]

Haul their asses to court! they have shafted so many customers in the past. maybe this will serve as a wake up call that not everyone will happily roll over and pretend nothing happend. I see some good deals on their site all the time. however, they are on my shitlist and ive never even done business with them, but with the amount of talk floatin around about them. i dont think id want to risk it.

[qubit]

Yeah Freedom, suing them might help a bit, but it would be a lot of bother for me. I'll bet they get sued regularly.

The laws, Trading Standards and the police seem to be set up to be particularly toothless in the UK. Often, if a rogue trader is shut down at all, they (may) have to repay defrauded customers and go to prison for five minutes, only to set up again a short while later and scam all over again.

Seems the only thing that would really stop these people is a good kneecapping or two. They can't recover from physical violence and permanent damage, which would make for a really effective deterrant. Unfortunately, it's illegal.

[FreedomEclipse]

Im sure trading standards have a huge file on them. god knows how they have been allowed to continue trading

[qubit]

Yeah, I might just go speak to them. Certainly can't hurt.

[cdawall]

crosship pay both ways this is not your mistake this is theirs if the expect you to pay anything then they are wrong and if they will not fix the issue i assume you had to pay using a debit or credit card inform them you will be doing a chargeback since you received the incorrect item and the retailer refuses to return the product that was there mistake.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by qubit

scami & frick: something I didn't think about when I posted was what if it's bad and kills my mobo? I'd have a real headache then, wouldn't I? Given it was sold under false pretenses, this should not be ruled out.

It's exactly why you should talk send it back asap. Or give them a call asap at least so they know. I would not do it because when I get the thing the deal is done and I rarely can bring myself to care about it. It's a bad thing. Do not be like me.

[qubit]

Oh, they'll take it back all right. They will quickly issue a refund - for the base amount only, no shipping (even if I've reminded them to refund it in my email). I will then have to chase them up for it and they will (hopefully) pay it.

I know this from experience with them and is one of the reasons why I only buy from them if they've got some sort of special offer I particularly want. The irony, is that their website is the one I browse the most for computer parts, because it's so easy to navigate. All that bandwidth and no sales!

I've bought b-grade a few times in the past and it was obviously not a new product. However, that's what b-grade means (when they used to define it) so it wasn't a problem. I've bought several b-grades now, among them an 8800 GTX & later an 8800 Ultra very cheaply off them and they were fine. Still work properly to this day, although to be fair, I hardly use them.

Shit, I knew this damn thing would be second hand. Think about it, where do they get just one long discontinued OEM CPU from? Come on, they're always job lots aren't they? I won't be making the same mistake again, I assure you.

I'm gonna sound this out from a few friends tomorrow and see how I feel about it. My guts still say to return it, but I'll see how I feel after I've sat on it for a bit. I really did want this processor when I bought it and it's a one-off. Oh, the dilemma! lol

[FreedomEclipse]

well, test it first if you can. if it hits 4ghz then its a keeper.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by FreedomEclipse

well, test it first if you can. if it hits 4ghz then its a keeper.

Hmmm... interesting point. My E8500 is at 4.11Ghz and it would be nice not to lose any clock speed.

I see you're a night owl, like me.

The only catch is that I have to be in work for 9am.

[FreedomEclipse]

your mobo should be able to get the Q9550 upto 4Ghz no problem. its one of the best ones for overclocking 775 quads.

at the end of the day its your call. and since Sandy Bridge has run into a snag, it makes the Q9550 a better investment. and it will probably hold you till a few new revisions come out on on the S.B chips.

[scaminatrix]

If you want to sue them, don't return it, or even contact them at all. Ring one of those free lawyers, they'll tell you over the phone whether you've got a case or not.
Only return it if you are not intending on suing them. CMIIW but the CPU is "evidence" at the moment.
Interesting bit of off-topic-ness here:

Overclockers Uk is the trading name of a company called Esnet Limited. Esnet Limited only has one Director and his name is a Mr Mark Proudfoot.
Officially He doesnt own any shares in the company though.
The shareholder is a company called Futuremax Technology Limited and guess who owns Futuremax Technology Limited?? Mark and Claire Proudfoot own 50% of the shares and a company called Promicro Limited owns the other 50%.
Now I know what you're thinking - Who owns Promicro Limited? Mark and Claire Proudfoot do.
So Overclockers Uk is nothing more than a trading name for a little web of companies that are all owned by Mark and Claire Proudfoot.

It's an old reference, but the point is; they are very VERY sue-able. And the best thing is - they don't really care, as they have other companies and investments.

[qubit]

Ok people, used or not, I couldn't resist trying it out. Here's a CPU-Z of it doing 3.8GHz:



Which doesn't seem bad - my E8500 did 4.11GHz. I've not tested Prime95 on it like this, but temps are real good, about 38C idling and I played a game completely stably.

I couldn't get it stable above this clock frequency. However, I'm not an expert overclocker and there are an awful lot of BIOS settings on my mobo, so it wouldn't surprise me if it could be massaged to 4GHz or more by altering a couple of other BIOS settings.

I still can't decide whether to keep it or not. <angst> Yeah, there's the principle of them selling me something used as new, but I now know it works fine and I can't get another like this for this sort of money, so it's very tempting just to accept it.

I guess another good, annoyingly practical question is how much benefit would I get day to day from a quad anyway? The desktop feels the same, but the enthusiast in me wants it regardless. I guess heavy multitasking would feel better, as well as seeing 4 graphs in Task Manager.

I can sell my E8500, so the overall cost of this upgrade will be very low.

So, another round of opinions please now that you have seen it working.