Watch out! Crysis 2 on Steam has 3rd party DRM, NOT disclosed on store page

[Mr McC]

I'm bowing out of this thread, but I find it hard to believe that so many people are criticising quibit for drawing this to our attention. It is not a question of whether or not the DRM is fair, intrusive or functional, the customer should be informed about this beforehand. It appears that Valve omitted this information and there is absolutely no need for "out to get us" theories to explain why it would be in their interests to do so.

quibit has not engaged in any ranting, nor has he fallen foul to needless provocation, he is simply providing an information service that should have been provided by Steam as the vendors in this case. If anybody feels that this information isn't important, they are entirely within their rights; however, some of us are interested in the existence of undisclosed DRM on Steam games.

Thanks quibit.

[erocker]

Originally Posted by qubit

I don't see what's so hard to understand here. Valve are the seller and therefore it's their fault for not disclosing it under UK law. It's nothing to do with whether I like them or not. The imposition of DRM on the customer is a significant product issue they must consider when buying. I've been bitten by this, since I was mislead by their store page, so I posted about this to warn others and post an update when I hear from Valve. Unfortunately, some people are really not being very nice to me about this, which is making the thread somewhat less pleasant.

The only DRM I find acceptable is the Steam DRM, therefore being mislead into purchasing a third party one is a big deal to me and I'm gonna get that refund if I can. If Valve become difficult I'll try a chargeback on the credit card.

Think about this in a general sense: every time a company "makes a mistake" it's always in their favour, isn't it? Obviously makes them more profit, doesn't it?

From what I see, they didn't know. EA doesn't list it anywhere, how would Steam know? Do you have any kind of proof where Steam would know these details and if or if not they were given to them?

[Mr McC]

Originally Posted by erocker

From what I see, they didn't know. EA doesn't list it anywhere, how would Steam know? Do you have any kind of proof where Steam would know these details if or if not they were given to them?

As the vendor, ignorance probably would not free them of the responsibility to inform the customer of exactly what they are purchasing, I don't think the fact that they were unaware of what they were selling would hold much water in a court. Valve may consider that if they enforced a "no third-party DRM" approach, these situations would never arise.

[garyinhere]

Originally Posted by qubit

I don't see what's so hard to understand here. Valve are the seller and therefore it's their fault for not disclosing it under UK law. It's nothing to do with whether I like them or not. The imposition of DRM on the customer is a significant product issue they must consider when buying. I've been bitten by this, since I was mislead by their store page, so I posted about this to warn others and post an update when I hear from Valve. Unfortunately, some people are really not being very nice to me about this, which is making the thread somewhat less pleasant.

The only DRM I find acceptable is the Steam DRM, therefore being mislead into purchasing a third party one is a big deal to me and I'm gonna get that refund if I can. If Valve become difficult I'll try a chargeback on the credit card.

Think about this in a general sense: every time a company "makes a mistake" it's always in their favour, isn't it? Obviously makes them more profit, doesn't it?

EDIT: It may not be on the EA website, but I think one would have be a bit naive to think they didn't know about it?



I didn't rant.

A rant is a speech or text that does not present a calm argument; rather, it is typically an enthusiastic speech or talk or lecture on an idea, a person or an institution. Compare with a dialectic. Rants can be based on partial fact or may be entirely factual.

^^rant^^
You stated the problem, you failed to read your user agreement, you are passionate about DRM's but not enough to see if they are on the games you buy...You have no question or problem anyone can help you with (which is what these forums are for) You took the steps to try to get reimbursed. You sir are ranting

[qubit]

Originally Posted by erocker

From what I see, they didn't know. EA doesn't list it anywhere, how would Steam know? Do you have any kind of proof where Steam would know these details if or if not they were given to them?

I just made a little edit while you were posting, to say one has to be naive to think that Valve didn't know about this.

Look, the two companies work together to put the products out on Steam. Things such as playtesting, general product vetting (does it abide by Valve's Steam store policies) and general knowledge about each other's activities. It would be amazing if Valve didn't know about this.

And thanks to Mr McC for your help. Much appreciated.

[erocker]

Originally Posted by Mr McC

As the vendor, ignorance probably would not free them of the responsibility to inform the customer of exactly what they are purchasing, I don't think the fact that they were unaware of what they were selling would hold much water in a court. Valve may consider that if they enforced a "no third-party DRM" approach, these situations would never arise.

Ignorance? I would assume they get some official papers for a games release that they are to sell, they read them over and make a decision to sell it. Now, if they had information claiming this games used DRM and sold it without devulging this info, you would be correct. However, we don't know if they have this information and you are jumping to assumptions. Like I stated, from what I see EA has no information on this either, which leads me to believe that Steam didn't get this information thus, the logical thing to do would be to look at EA.

[qubit]

You know E, this probably boils down to an admin cockup at Valve, lol.

[garyinhere]

What's a cockup?

[erocker]

Originally Posted by qubit

You know E, this probably boils down to an admin cockup at Valve, lol.

That doesn't answer why EA doesn't have this information posted.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by garyinhere

What's a cockup?

It means a mistake. Particularly an incompetent one that should have been seen.

[Mussels]

if you format without de-authorising, doesnt that eat up one of your activations for good?

[qubit]

Originally Posted by erocker

That doesn't answer why EA doesn't have this information posted.

Well, how do I know why? It still doesn't take away from earlier post 55 that they work together and this would be generally known at Valve.

[garyinhere]

who would need 5 active copies at once? and for what purpose maybe they don't want you to have a cockup

[qubit]

Originally Posted by Mussels

if you format without de-authorising, doesnt that eat up one of your activations for good?

I believe it might and you then have to go begging to EA if you run out.

Also, if an earlier poster is right and the counter resets monthly, then that alleviates the problem somewhat.

[garyinhere]

Originally Posted by qubit

I believe it might and you then have to go begging to EA if you run out.

Also, if an earlier poster is right and the counter resets monthly, then that alleviates the problem somewhat.

so in one year you could have a valid copy on 60 machines?

[erocker]

Originally Posted by qubit

Well, how do I know why? It still doesn't take away from earlier post 55 that they work together and this would be generally known at valve.

Well.. honestly I think you're just making assumptions. It seems like an EA problem to me, not Steam and that's my opinion.

Cheers.

[streetfighter 2]

Man oh man. Before this thread hits six buckets of shit I want to specify a few things:

I do not buy games with invasive DRM. I don't watch Glenn Beck/O'Riley, and I buy produce from a farmers market. I vote with my ducats.

Perhaps the DRM in Crysis 2 is not invasive. Nevertheless EA lost any chance I would buy Crysis 2 by intentionally hiding the DRM-- And no, that doesn't mean I'm going to pirate it! This has nothing to do with piracy, so get that bug out of your arse. Pirates are going to have a field day with this one no matter what I do.

EULAs can require you to pee while doing jumping jacks, but if it contradicts another law then it's void. Besides that, customer service is paramount. Steam undoubtedly earns most of it's money from loyal customers, not from acquiring hordes of new customers and throwing the old ones to the curb.

Finally, this DOES NOT effect piracy except that it may piss off some of the prospective purchasers who are predisposed to pirating. If each copy of this game was assigned a bloody FBI agent to personally watch it from here to eternity the game would still be pirated (in droves). So bugger off!

Ever heard of lemon laws? Not everyone is going to cut open the bloody gas tank to find out it has sand in it. Likewise I can't install Crysis 2 in a VM to check for hidden DRM unless I buy a copy of it.

Furthermore I can count to potato.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by garyinhere

so in one year you could have a valid copy on 60 machines?

With the standard Steam DRM, you can legitimately have an unlimited number of copies on an unlimited number of PCs. However, Steam prevents you from using more than one copy at a time. It also prevents you from selling a game that you no longer want.

[garyinhere]

Originally Posted by qubit

With the standard Steam DRM, you can legitimately have an unlimited number of copies on an unlimited number of PCs. However, Steam prevents you from using more than one copy at a time. It also prevents you from selling a game that you no longer want.

i never said to run all copies at once? Which brings up a point what need is there for more than 5 computers activated at once?

[TRIPTEX_CAN]

Steam should be held accountible for the products they sell and complete disclosure of features within said product.

"They didnt know it was in there" is a garbage excuse IMO.

Still this is just another example of EA/Cryteks contempt for the PC platform. Like you would see a restricion on the x360 saying "Sorry you can't put this disk in your system anymore please contact EA and waste your time reactivating a product you own"

[qubit]

Originally Posted by garyinhere

i never said to run all copies at once? Which brings up a point what need is there for more than 5 computers activated at once?

I was just explaining the basic way Steam works.

Also, there could easily be a need for more than 5 computers at once, regardless of whether we can think of the reasons off the top of our heads.

As a fellow PC enthusisast, you'll understand how the hardware changes over time, with components being swapped out, gone faulty or Windows reinstalls. Each one of these can count as a "new PC" in the eyes of the DRM.

So god forgive the poor schmuck who's had a "new PC" due to hard disc failure or because they simply forgot to deactivate the damn thing, because you know, they're human.

How reasonable do you really think it is to impose this shit on them? Especially in the light that there could potentially be several products on that PC all with product activation. What a headache to manage!

Nah, I see a product with this DRM and I boycott it. End of. Windows and Office are the exception due to their market dominance.

Originally Posted by TRIPTEX_CAN

Steam should be held accountible for the products they sell and complete disclosure of features within said product.

"They didnt know it was in there" is a garbage excuse IMO.

Still this is just another example of EA/Cryteks contempt for the PC platform. Like you would see a restricion on the x360 saying "Sorry you can't put this disk in your system anymore please contact EA and waste your time reactivating a product you own"

Of course, duh! Well said.

[erocker]

Have you filed a support ticket? I'm curious to what they have to say.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by erocker

Have you filed a support ticket? I'm curious to what they have to say.

Oh yes, you betcha! I did earlier today and I did say that in my OP.

You can also be sure that I'll update you guys when I hear back.

[garyinhere]

Originally Posted by qubit

I was just explaining the basic way Steam works.

Also, there could easily be a need for more than 5 computers at once, regardless of whether we can think of the reasons off the top of our heads.

As a fellow PC enthusisast, you'll understand how the hardware changes over time, with components being swapped out, gone faulty or Windows reinstalls. Each one of these can count as a "new PC" in the eyes of the DRM.

So god forgive the poor schmuck who's had a "new PC" due to hard disc failure or because they simply forgot to deactivate the damn thing, because you know, they're human.

How reasonable do you really think it is to impose this shit on them? Especially in the light that there could potentially be several products on that PC all with product activation. What a headache to manage!

Nah, I see a product with this DRM and I boycott it. End of. Windows and Office are the exception due to their market dominance.

I don't understand? You are adamant about not buying drm games but you have exceptions, and you bought one an now you want your money back because you failed to research your buy in the first place? Then you give a heads up but continue with how unfair it is when you will find out what steam says about it later. You don't want to discuss DRM so again what is the point of this thread that I am failing to see here?

BTW I only game on consoles due to lack of PC support and poor graphics. I've never had a torn screen!

[qubit]

Originally Posted by garyinhere

I don't understand? You are adamant about not buying drm games but you have exceptions, and you bought one an now you want your money back because you failed to research your buy in the first place? Then you give a heads up but continue with how unfair it is when you will find out what steam says about it later. You don't want to discuss DRM so again what is the point of this thread that I am failing to see here?

BTW I only game on consoles due to lack of PC support and poor graphics. I've never had a torn screen!

You seem really confused. Let me set a few things straight:

- I don't buy anything with DRM in it, except Windows, Office and Steam
- I did "research" Crysis 2 by looking carefully at the store page, to check that third party DRM was not present. I shouldn't have to do any more than that. The responsibility is with Valve to disclose it, as I've said several times over now. Third party DRM was present however, which is the reason for my thread, so that other people are warned before they fall into this trap
- You're still saying I don't want to discuss DRM. How so? I've been discussing it the whole time. You even asked me a question about installing the game on 60 PCs and I gave you a clear and factual answer

Yeah, you wouldn't see animation tearing on a console, because vsync is always on, as it should be.