What makes a DX11 game?

erixx · Mar 30, 2011, 09:07 AM

Hi all, I am calling all experts to form in a huge line and say loud and proud what makes a DX11 game!!!!

In the context of the Crysis 2, unpleasant for some, surprise of course, but also as a general question. There seems to be a bit of controversy/ignorance/discussion about what kind of WORK has to be done in order to transform a DX9/DX10 game into a DX11 game:

- new textures (this implies basically downloading many GIGABYTES of game), or
- new engine that 'reads' differently, or
- new shaders, new filters, new tessalation instructions, whatever
Of course it could be all of these or part, or something completely different.

Some of the above would involve nearly rewriting a game, or maybe it is just adding some lines of code, here and there, a very streamlined job?

Thanks!

FordGT90Concept · Mar 30, 2011, 09:31 AM

Software might not use any features of DirectX 11 but still be compiled for DirectX 11 making it a DirectX 11 product.

Something coded from the ground up for specific hardware (like DirectX 11 devices) is always going to function better than a cobblejob (DirectX 9, DirectX 10, and DirectX 11 support, for example).

HookeyStreet · Mar 30, 2011, 10:39 AM

A game that's not ported from a console

Mussels · Mar 30, 2011, 10:55 AM

any game that uses directX 11 to render its graphics, is directX 11...

i really dont see the question? its like asking "what makes an game, an openGL game?"

erixx · Mar 30, 2011, 11:10 AM

the amount and kind of work involved going from DX9 or 10, to DirectX 11...

thanks to all!

Mussels · Mar 30, 2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erixx

the amount and kind of work involved going from DX9 or 10, to DirectX 11...

thanks to all!

there is no 'work' going from 9 to 11, because there is no simple way to do that. you have to make another, seperate graphics engine. Textures and models can be reused, but the coding has to be redone.

as i said before, its the same as if they wanted to go to openGL.

W1zzard · Mar 30, 2011, 11:14 AM

if an engine is designed right there wont be too many changes to port from dx9 to dx11... but then you have a dx9 game that says "dx11". what you need are new effects, textures, models, tesselation etc.

the smart way is to ask for $$ from amd and nvidia to put food into your developers' mouth. then slap on a dx11 sticker and be done with it

Mussels · Mar 30, 2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W1zzard

if an engine is designed right there wont be too many changes to port from dx9 to dx11.

but then you have a dx9 game that says "dx11". what you need are new effects, textures, models, tesselation etc.

the smart way is to ask for $$ from amd and nvidia to put food into your developers' mouth. then slap on a dx11 sticker and be done with it

yeah but look at what happened with automated meat grinder games and how bad they were.

company of heroes went DX9->10, and the 10 had massive performance hits for no real graphics change at high settings, yet large performance boosts on DX10 low settings. it was all over the place.

bad company 2 seemed designed for DX11 first (with 10 as part of that) and DX9 as the secondary, and its DX9 was buggy with graphics problems all over the place.

there may be ways to do it, but if no one seems to be able to get it right, i have to assume that its not simple or easy to do.

w1zzys right on the fact that we need new features, and not just in the new engine/DX path. changing to DX11 is all well and good, but without optional extras like tesselation or fancy shaders, nothings really changed.

erixx · Mar 30, 2011, 11:31 AM

Thanks to Ford, W1zz and Mussels! I understand that it is not the same "make it just run under DirectX11 'sticker'" or to really and fully exploit Direct X features, theorically "better looks and also faster".

I know that the question was not a master, but I would summarize your answers like this:

- If game "G" is designed with DirectX 11 hardware and coding in mind, it could be relatively easy.
- If the game is a pure previous Direct X engine it involves a lot of extra work, even rewriting.

For now, Unigine Tessaltion is *absent* in all games, and that means to me: they all did (if they did anything) half 'assed' jobs. But we have nice clouds, dust, particles, lightning...

Mussels · Mar 30, 2011, 11:33 AM

what do you mean by unigine tesselation? tesselation is used in heaps of DX11 games

AltecV1 · Mar 30, 2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mussels

bad company 2 seemed designed for DX11 first

Mussels · Mar 30, 2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltecV1

if you played it at launch, DX11 worked a hell of a lot better than DX9 ever did.

edit: oh wait... you wouldnt know, since you only have a 4K card.

FordGT90Concept · Mar 30, 2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mussels

tesselation is used in heaps of DX11 games

Not to great effect though. They usually use tesselation on bits and peices that could just as well be completely ignored (like crowds). By DX15, tesselation will see some real, meaningful use. XD

AltecV1 · Mar 30, 2011, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mussels

if you played it at launch, DX11 worked a hell of a lot better than DX9 ever did.

edit: oh wait... you wouldnt know, since you only have a 4K card.

oh no you didn't

digibucc · Mar 30, 2011, 12:14 PM

yeah i had just gotten my 5850 when bc2 came out, it ran great for me while those with dx9 had a bunch of problems...

r9 · Mar 30, 2011, 12:30 PM

Advertising.

overclocking101 · Mar 30, 2011, 12:53 PM

at this point DX11 looks good in benchmarks, and one or 2 games. when consoles evolve and have DX11 then it will be used more untill then we kind of get what we get, by then we will all have DX13 hardware

2DividedbyZero · Mar 30, 2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mussels

if you played it at launch, DX11 worked a hell of a lot better than DX9 ever did.

edit: oh wait... you wouldnt know, since you only have a 4K card.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltecV1

oh no you didn't

entropy13 · Mar 30, 2011, 01:00 PM

Spells by nefarious wizards.

MatTheCat · Mar 30, 2011, 01:14 PM

Nobody will really be able to say until BF3 hits in the autumn.

Gonna be a lot of upgrades going on around then I suspect.

digibucc · Mar 30, 2011, 02:07 PM

i is prepared

hardware ready, pre-ordered through d2d 20% off

BF3, Skyrim, and DIII are the 3 games I am so looking forward to. I would imagine they will all make use of DX11? idk for sure though.

streetfighter 2 · Mar 30, 2011, 02:31 PM

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...90(VS.85).aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...(v=VS.85).aspx

'nuff said.

AphexDreamer · Mar 30, 2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by streetfighter 2

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...90(VS.85).aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...(v=VS.85).aspx

'nuff said.

This?

"Converting programs written to use the Direct3D 10 or 10.1 API is a straight-forward process as Direct3D 11 is an extension of the existing API"

Would indicate that it shouldn't have been/be to difficult for Crysis to adopt DX11 correct?

Mussels · Mar 30, 2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

This?

"Converting programs written to use the Direct3D 10 or 10.1 API is a straight-forward process as Direct3D 11 is an extension of the existing API"

Would indicate that it shouldn't have been/be to difficult for Crysis to adopt DX11 correct?

the other way around, really.

if they made it for DX11, then 10 and 10.1 are easy.

yes, they could get crysis and slap these features on top... but they'd do nothing but hurt performance unless they spent a fair bit of time optimising it.

entropy13 · Mar 30, 2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mussels

the other way around, really.

if they made it for DX11, then 10 and 10.1 are easy.

Which is what happened in Dragon Age 2, actually.

Mar 30, 2011, 09:07 AM	#1
erixx Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Moorsoldaten barracks Posts: 2,183 (1.89/day) Thanks: 711 Thanked 312 Times in 250 Posts System Specs	What makes a DX11 game? Hi all, I am calling all experts to form in a huge line and say loud and proud what makes a DX11 game!!!! In the context of the Crysis 2, unpleasant for some, surprise of course, but also as a general question. There seems to be a bit of controversy/ignorance/discussion about what kind of WORK has to be done in order to transform a DX9/DX10 game into a DX11 game: - new textures (this implies basically downloading many GIGABYTES of game), or - new engine that 'reads' differently, or - new shaders, new filters, new tessalation instructions, whatever Of course it could be all of these or part, or something completely different. Some of the above would involve nearly rewriting a game, or maybe it is just adding some lines of code, here and there, a very streamlined job? Thanks!

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Mar 30, 2011, 09:31 AM	#2
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Mar 30, 2011, 10:39 AM	#3
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Mar 30, 2011, 10:55 AM	#4
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Mar 30, 2011, 11:10 AM	#5
erixx Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Moorsoldaten barracks Posts: 2,183 (1.89/day) Thanks: 711 Thanked 312 Times in 250 Posts System Specs	the amount and kind of work involved going from DX9 or 10, to DirectX 11... thanks to all!

Mar 30, 2011, 11:14 AM	#7
W1zzard Benevolent Dictator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 13,789 (4.18/day) Thanks: 184 Thanked 10,270 Times in 3,173 Posts System Specs	if an engine is designed right there wont be too many changes to port from dx9 to dx11... but then you have a dx9 game that says "dx11". what you need are new effects, textures, models, tesselation etc. the smart way is to ask for $$ from amd and nvidia to put food into your developers' mouth. then slap on a dx11 sticker and be done with it

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Mar 30, 2011, 11:31 AM	#9
erixx Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Moorsoldaten barracks Posts: 2,183 (1.89/day) Thanks: 711 Thanked 312 Times in 250 Posts System Specs	Thanks to Ford, W1zz and Mussels! I understand that it is not the same "make it just run under DirectX11 'sticker'" or to really and fully exploit Direct X features, theorically "better looks and also faster". I know that the question was not a master, but I would summarize your answers like this: - If game "G" is designed with DirectX 11 hardware and coding in mind, it could be relatively easy. - If the game is a pure previous Direct X engine it involves a lot of extra work, even rewriting. For now, Unigine Tessaltion is absent in all games, and that means to me: they all did (if they did anything) half 'assed' jobs. But we have nice clouds, dust, particles, lightning...

Mar 30, 2011, 11:33 AM	#10
Mussels Doctor Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bendigo, Australia (NOT THE USA) Posts: 34,559 (10.96/day) Thanks: 3,700 Thanked 8,693 Times in 6,392 Posts System Specs	what do you mean by unigine tesselation? tesselation is used in heaps of DX11 games __________________ Edumacational thread about PC Audio My external HDD's.5x samsung 1TB + 2x Seagate 1.5TB = 8 TB external storage 32 Bit OS vs 64 bit OS information How to get hardware accelerated H264 playback (DXVA) Netbook Owners United!

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overclocking101 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: vermont Posts: 2,636 (1.75/day) Thanks: 196 Thanked 405 Times in 363 Posts System Specs	at this point DX11 looks good in benchmarks, and one or 2 games. when consoles evolve and have DX11 then it will be used more untill then we kind of get what we get, by then we will all have DX13 hardware __________________ hmmmm cant have cpu-z or hwbot anymore me is sad

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Mar 30, 2011, 02:07 PM	#21
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