My overclock: Comments from the experienced w/ DualCore AMD Athlon64 x2 CPU users...

[Ketxxx]

glad to be of service

[Alec§taar]

Originally Posted by Ketxxx

glad to be of service

Thanks, most definitely & I "owe you one" @ least, imo!



* You took me past what I was able to do with some work (BIOS o/c CPU levels overclocks ontop of my vidcard ones) into the memory timings "tightenings" & what tools to "prototype it" with easily enough!

APK

[Ketxxx]

let us know how things go

[demonbrawn]

This is all great stuff! How did you keep your HTT lower than your CPU speed? I don't seem to have a HTT multiplier in my BIOS so it always keeps up with my CPU speed when I overclock, which I heard is not a good thing. I was told to keep the HTT as close to its default speed as possible to run stable. So, how were you able to do it?

[Alec§taar]

Originally Posted by demonbrawn

This is all great stuff! How did you keep your HTT lower than your CPU speed? I don't seem to have a HTT multiplier in my BIOS so it always keeps up with my CPU speed when I overclock, which I heard is not a good thing. I was told to keep the HTT as close to its default speed as possible to run stable. So, how were you able to do it?

Whoosh - I'll be darned if I know!



* It was a few hours of "hit & miss" testing yesterday evening really... I just kept "trying & trying" via 'Trial & Error' attempts really...

(There are TRUCKLOADS of possible mixes/permutations/possibles in CPU clocks, the formula of CPU Mhz Rate x multiplier is the KEY one to get imo, coupled with "weaker/looser" memory timings!)

From there, you do what Ketxxx & KYJ9 up there helped me go thru, in "re-tightening" the memory timings chain!

APK

P.S.=> The HASSLE of it was going @ it @ the BIOS level imo, trying to beat the ASUS A8N-SLI BIOS' in-built "wizards" for it (AI OverClock, or AI N.O.S. stuff, gives you 3-5-8-10% options)...

They DID help, but I just knew that folks "into this" would have guides for my mobo type & I followed them from online elsewhere!

Next step is tightening the memtimings & I am on my way on that too, but NO losing settings anymore @ BIOS level...

E.G.-> FIRST, I test/prototype using A64 Tweaker for the memtimings, & if I lockup @ Windows boot?

Like I said above - SAFEMODE only works to remove them via A64 Tweaker & then reboot & try again (not losing a single BIOS setting, which is a PAIN!).

Once they prove stable via this tool reparming drivers or using Frank Delattre (CPU-z author)'s drivers (they share them, this I found out already) & reparming them?

I commit them to BIOS & all is permanent then, & no added layered filtering interrupt intercepting drivers required anymore...

Once proven & stable?

Then, I then stop using A64 Tweaker @ boot & set the settings PERMANENTLY in the BIOS (especially in this heatwave)!

Hey, I figure it like this:

If they stay stable now? They will certainly in colder weather w/ lower ambient temps (92F here today: HOT!)

This set of tools is MUCH like how ASUS AI NOS tool works:

Good prototyper, BUT not one I will keep around once I get some settings right & mobo BIOS commit them as permanent!

(As it adds another driver program in memory & is another layer over what your BIOS can do natively once you get it right... hardware ALWAYS beats software imo!)... apk

[bbriand]

Originally Posted by Alec§taar

P.S.=> Thanks for the info., because of this, I can do this @ will, & not "Wipe out my BIOS" having to reset it to DEFAULTS all over again, & losing what little I gained o/c'ing thusfar on the CPU end, & can 're-engineer' my memory timings now too, w/out "undoing" all else whilst I experiment! apk

If your Premium mobo has the same software / capibilities as my Deluxe mobo you can very easily backup your BIOS at anytime and store all your tweaked BIOS settings. That way if things glitch up horribly you could reflash all your settings back.

Not that reflashing should be taken lightly.

Just thought I'd toss that out there.

Bill

[demonbrawn]

Interesting. On my motherboard, if something goes wrong, all I have to do is power down and then power back up. When it boots up there is a screen that reads "Overclock failed! Press F1 to enter BIOS and make changes or press F2 to restore defaults." That's very handy! That way, I can press F1 and all my settings are exactly the same as they were before the crash which saves time. Anyway, I just want to figure out how to seperate the HTT from the CPU speed. I even set my CPU speed @ 200 with a multplier of 11.5 to get 2.3 hoping that my HTT would stay at 200, but it followed to 230. Shew, trial and error indeed...

[bbriand]

Originally Posted by demonbrawn

"Overclock failed! Press F1 to enter BIOS and make changes or press F2 to restore defaults."

When you do press F1 does it put everything back to the settings you had minus the last changes that caused the lockup or does it restore to factory defaults?

As for setting the HTT multiplier seperate from the CPU I dunno. I see you don't have the ability to set it to 1-5. I have seen others say it is sometimes the numbers themselves (I think 200-1000).

Bill

[demonbrawn]

When you do press F1 does it put everything back to the settings you had minus the last changes that caused the lockup or does it restore to factory defaults?

It saves the settings you had. I don't think it corrects the settings that made it crash, but I could be wrong.

As for setting the HTT multiplier seperate from the CPU I dunno. I see you don't have the ability to set it to 1-5. I have seen others say it is sometimes the numbers themselves (I think 200-1000).

Ohhh yeah I do have that option. However, I think I set it to 800 once to see what would happen, but the HTT speed still read the same as the CPU speed when I loaded CPU-Z, so I wasn't sure what it did...

[bbriand]

I have been trying to get the manual from ASUS's support site. I wish they would upgrade their speed or purchase more computers for their websites. Keeps timing out (nothing new there)

I googled and came across this gem (well I think its a gem). check it out:
http://www.driverheaven.net/showthread.php?t=104156
http://www.driverheaven.net/printthread.php?t=104156

hehe manual finally loaded but I think that link is what you want anyhow.

Bill

[Alec§taar]

Originally Posted by bbriand

If your Premium mobo has the same software / capibilities as my Deluxe mobo you can very easily backup your BIOS at anytime and store all your tweaked BIOS settings. That way if things glitch up horribly you could reflash all your settings back.

Not that reflashing should be taken lightly.

Just thought I'd toss that out there.

Bill

Got ya, "6 of 1 & 1/2 dozen of another" (a lb. of lead = a lb. of feathers) etc. lol!



* An alternate to my method of recovery (SafeMode)

APK

[Alec§taar]

Sorry for delay in reply first of all guys, busy here with PROBLEMATIC chunk of code (pissing me off lol):

Originally Posted by demonbrawn

Interesting. On my motherboard, if something goes wrong, all I have to do is power down and then power back up. When it boots up there is a screen that reads "Overclock failed! Press F1 to enter BIOS and make changes or press F2 to restore defaults."

Heh, MINE TALKS TO ME doing that!



(Literally)

A "vocal bios" settings in my version of my mobo BIOS, perhaps this will solve your hassle HERE:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showth...784#post122784

(Go to ASUS & look for BIOS updates! I can put a higher CPU voltage than 1.4v too...)

Only hassle is, when I go TOO far/too "radical"? I never even get THAT far... no joke, you try it?? You'll see what I mean!

(You won't "fry" your board either, it's just a hassle, as it loses what you setup for the o/c & defaults back to its hardwired defaults sometimes too!)

Originally Posted by demonbrawn

That's very handy! That way, I can press F1 and all my settings are exactly the same as they were before the crash which saves time.

Depends though, because like I said above? It "knocked mine out" before, pushing WAY too hard, even seeing visual artifacts yesterday during POST... then lockup, solid.

Spent HOURS @ it...

Originally Posted by demonbrawn

Anyway, I just want to figure out how to seperate the HTT from the CPU speed. I even set my CPU speed @ 200 with a multplier of 11.5 to get 2.3 hoping that my HTT would stay at 200, but it followed to 230. Shew, trial and error indeed...

Yes it is... & there are a VARIETY of possibles/permutations as well in the multiplier vs. clock combination!



* Not 110% sure mine is "the best" yet, but it surely is working & well thusfar, even in the memory timings tightenings!

APK

P.S.=> I'll write you guys w/ my 'final settings' as a reference for you when it's ALL done, hours from now (work tasks = First "fish to fry" though)... apk

[Alec§taar]

See my subject-line/title above, & here it is from another thread here where Tatty One "turned me on" to a good working speedup over what I got myself, check it:



QUOTE OF TATTY ONE's TIP/TRICK/TECHNIQUE (from URL below & noted in quote, in detail):

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showth...415#post123415

Originally Posted by Tatty_One

Alec, give it a go lowering your multiplier by one then you get the higher FSB to increase your 333 Ram setting speed. I have managed to get mine on just about dead on 400Mhz with my clocks on my 4200 x2 and am running the cores @2800. OK I have ended up still on my 11x multiplier but I was completely stable at 10 x 279 but had to drop the memory down to 133 cause it was too fast, you will be on 12 x I imagine, try the 11 and see how she does.

It worked man!

(Thank you for a heads-up on "The Good Word"...)

Stepping back from a 12x multiplier (216 x 12) & going with 11x as you suggested (so far stable (even in this HEATWAVE we're having) -> 239 x 11) is working JUST FINE!

* I went up from 2592.5mhz -> to 2632.7mhz! That's a 40mhz jump alone, & I am not done yet!

(So far, the "total jump/increase" so far is 232mhz over stock... & it is running stable!)

I can STILL get more I am fairly sure (heck, Tatty's pushing 2800mhz!!!)



* Simply awesome!

APK

[Alec§taar]

* I'm going to go and play Quake 4 SMP &/or Doom III now, & see how stable it stays @ this clock... if it does BOTH games well, for an hour or so?

I'LL PUSH FARTHER!

APK

P.S.=> 2700mhz (almost) & in this blistering heat (ambient is 93F outside today) & STABLE (the best part, but true test will be those games imo)...

"WoW!"... apk

[Alec§taar]

Well, I broke 2706mhz, & just played BOTH Doom III &/or Quake 4 SMP for more than 1 hour & was solid/stable:

BUT I HAVE QUESTIONS/NEED TIPS-ADVICE (mainly memory stuff in 2nd-most photo from top below)

CPU RATE



&

MEMORY CLOCK TIMING CHAIN





* Any "sound advice" on those settings guys?

(Especially the memory ones - I think I can pull them tighter possibly, because I 'stepped-down' to DDR-333 (vs. DDR-400)).

Thanks!

APK

[tigger]

my asus p5wd2 does the press f1 thing too.

is 193mhz good for ddr1 ram,my ddr2 is at 450.is that with a divider too?.

very nice oc tho' alecstarr

[Tatty_One]

Well Ketxx is most definatly more the expert but I have done a lot of work on my timings to get 7000+ memory bandwidth on Sandra which for value ram aint too bad.

because your memory is slightly underclocked try to tighten those timings, (I seem to remember somewhere else you saying that you manged to get from 1T to 2T??? (Check my specs form my value ram timings, mine came at stock 2.5-3-3-7 @ 2T)

Firstly, bring the CAS Latency down to 2.5

Ras to Cas take down from 4 to 3

and lastly, Bank Cycle time to 10.

Do one at a time only though in that order (only because I always do them in that order, not saying it is any different).

After each change, if you boot to windows, run 3D Mark 2005 or a demanding game for 10 minutes to make sure she is stable.

If you get all of them booting then test for longer as you did for CPU. You may want to run Sandra's memory bandwidth test before and after to see improvements, if you have not got it already, you can download it here:

http://download.guru3d.com/sandra/

(I couldnt find it on TPU's site, may just be my ageing eyes!) Ohhhh one last think, am not sure of your memory voltage options on your mobo, whatever it is dont have it set on the lowest only because I am told tighter timings work better with slightly higher than stock mem volts....Ketxxx will know more about that than me.

Happy tweaking!

[POGE]

Up your CPU's voltage to 1.5. That should help a lot...

[Tatty_One]

Originally Posted by POGE

Up your CPU's voltage to 1.5. That should help a lot...

Yeah I advised him of that but he does not want to go higher, I have mine on 1.55V at its fine and reasonably cool, Alec, I really would give it a go....what's your temps with your overclcok now?

[Alec§taar]

Originally Posted by Tatty_One

Yeah I advised him of that but he does not want to go higher, I have mine on 1.55V at its fine and reasonably cool, Alec, I really would give it a go....what's your temps with your overclcok now?

I will go higher if I have to, & sounds like I may have to... so, 1.55 works ok, & that said I will give that a shot & push harder still.

* Temps are like 43-45C (about what the temp is outside, lol, 90-100 today & all week)!

This is also after playing 1 hour of Doom III & Quake 4 SMP to test it today, so it all is working well.

POGE, I will give that voltage a shot on that voltage...

AND YES Tatty One - I made the 2T to 1T transition (first thing I got working right on the memory settings re-tightening stages).

Tigger69 - thanks man, I am trying (having some fun too while going @ it)...



(Above all - It's amazing me HOW FAR these AMD cpu's will go on the o/c man... once you realize that you just have to "give" a bit in your RAM (and apparently, according to Ketxxx? IF you go for the really "high-end" RAM? You don't even have to do that...))

APK

P.S. => Sorry for the delay in reply also guys - I was "obligated" to drive today to a party my pals & I go to each week "Party-in-the-Plaza" it's called (bands play, beer is there, & women, etc. you know - the 'whole 9 yards')... apk

[POGE]

I've found that most a64's like 1.5-1.55 the best on good air. You are lowering your LTD/FSB ratio right?

[Alec§taar]

Originally Posted by POGE

I've found that most a64's like 1.5-1.55 the best on good air. You are lowering your LTD/FSB ratio right?

Again, sorry for delay (fielding emails & other messages from here):

OK, sounds like good solid advice & I will take it, absolutely!



* Pardon my ignorance, but the "LTD" acronym... what's it stand for?

Thanks!

APK

P.S.=> I'm going to reboot & try this now... & above all? Guys - thanks for the help/input/feedback... apk

[tigger]

what about this mem bandwidth tatty one-

http://loader.sc0rian.com/users/public/r3342memx216.jpg

[Alec§taar]

Well, here it is: What I think I may finalize @!

CPU-z 1.35 CPU timings data



CPU-z 1.35 Memory timings data





My memory's @ DDR-333, but that's ok... I can't pull this when it's @ DDR-400! Oh well, I will just buy better o/c'ing memory one day I suppose, but have to "make do" w/ what I have for now!

RAM is set to "Auto" on its voltages (I was thinking "push to 2.9V" but, that'd only be if it stopped working or I froze up, etc.)... all committed to BIOS as permanent now too!

I do have the CPU set @ 1.5V in the BIOS now too (though it states 1.456v above, probably rounding off in BIOS is all)...

ALL seems to be doing FINE! I'd bet I can push farther too, but it's getting TOO close to 2800mhz, & that is TOO much from what I read everywhere... so, I won't risk it!

* Anyhow/anyways - Much appreciated on the help guys! You DO KNOW YOUR STUFF (Ketxxx, POGE, & Tatty One)!

Above all - If you can think of ANY other things for me to "mess with" that will help speed it up more @ the hardware level (beyond these settings so far)? Heck - let those suggestions RIP!

APK

P.S.=> Time to edit my signature, & then test again for 1 hour playing the heaviest 2 games I own (Quake 4 SMP & Doom III)...

OH, and POGE - again, what does the acronym "LTD" stand for? Thanks... apk

[POGE]

Sorry, I meant LDT... it stans for Lightning Data Transport, which is just snazzy. HTT is basically the speed your memory controller runs at. On 939 cpu's it should be around 1000 if possible. LDT is basically your memory controller's multipler. LDT and HTT came into the picture when A64's were first introduced. Take a look at your motherboard. *gasp* NO northbridge! As you probably already know, your memory controller is integrated into your processor's die. Because of this, there are 2 main clocks going on, that need to talk to each other. HTT is what is used to connect them. FSB x LDT = HTT, just as FSB x CPU Multi = CPU speed. Running your HTT faster or slower than 1000 doesnt really matter. It has more than enough bandwidth to carry out it's tasks already. Your main interest should be trying to make it stable (close to 1000). HTT is also double pumped after being multipled... hence why you will hear some people refer to it as being 2000 instead of 1000... etc.

Example:
If your FSB is, say 300, your HTT will become 1500. This is because the default LDT/FSB ratio is 5x(LDT/FSB ratio) * 300(FSB) = 1500(HTT). Since your HTT is at 1500, it can make your computer unstable. To fix this issue, you lower your LDT/FSB ratio, so its close to 1000. Raising or lowering your HTT shouldn't hurt your performance.

Note: Notice in CPU-Z it says your HTT is nowhere near 1000. This is because it hasnt figured in you LDT/FSB ratio. Since you are at 248, and I'm going to assume you havent touched your LDT settings, that would mean your HTT is at 1240, and that could be making you hit a wall. Lower your LDT/FSB ratio to 4x if you can, and it will make your HTT hit very close to 1000. Also, in many cases, you will see people using the term HTT, and FSB interchangably, which is of course, incorrect.

Edit: What are your current load temps at 1.5? If they are decent, and your processor is stable, you might want to even try 1.6... Your cooler seems pretty good, it should be able to handle it, if the temps are right.