Prosthetics or Bioregeneration

Fourstaff · May 21, 2011, 06:22 PM

I thought it is a bit odd that people have not created a thread like this (at least with my horribad searching skills), so I created one.

If you ever lose a part of your body in the future do you want to regrow that part of your body or are you going to use a mechanical part instead, like Adam Jensen from the upcoming Deus Ex: Human Revolution? Given the rate of advancement in both fields, I think its plausible that in 20 years time, we will be given the option of having either (but will cost you an arm and a leg, no pun intended).

I will take bioregeneration over mechanical hands, less hassle.

Edit: I noticed that people are just voting and not discussing, if possible, can we do a bit of discussion too?

Frick · May 21, 2011, 06:25 PM

I want both. Regeneration plus enhanced legs.

AphexDreamer · May 21, 2011, 06:28 PM

I voted regen cause I would like to have my natural body parts, with natural feelings.

But I'd change my vote if the mechanical arms or legs would provide extra strength or speed or hight.

Black Panther · May 21, 2011, 06:38 PM

Bioregeneration. In the same way as a gecko which loses its tail grows it back on.

Fourstaff · May 21, 2011, 06:40 PM

No one wants to have an arm with a built in gun, or fingers doubling up as Swiss army knives? Do note that with regeneration, there will be months if not years of therapy to get it in order.

Black Panther · May 21, 2011, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

Do note that with regeneration, there will be months if not years of therapy to get it in order.

Oh, didn't know that geckos needed that to get their regenerated tail functioning...

Swamp Monster · May 21, 2011, 06:58 PM

Regeneration preferred, but if mechanical parts can give me the same feelings + improved strength then I could vote mechanical parts too.

Fourstaff · May 21, 2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Panther

Oh, didn't know that geckos needed that to get their regenerated tail functioning...

Oh yes you do. There are 2 ways of regaining your limb back from regen, one is growing a new one from the stump, another is to grow it in a lab and then graft it to your stump. The first way, you will probably have to train it like when you grow up, regular movement and all. Second way, well, you will need to get used to your new arm. Growing a new arm will get better and better until the point where you will be able to get a new arm just like "your old one", but even then the part where the new one is attached to might need quite a bit of work.

As an extra, will you be willing to sacrifice your current part of the body for a mechanical augmentation? For example, trading one of your eye for one which can take pictures at your command and upload it to Facebook. Or having an eye with night vision, etc.

Black Panther · May 21, 2011, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

Oh yes you do. There are 2 ways of regaining your limb back from regen, one is growing a new one from the stump, another is to grow it in a lab and then graft it to your stump. The first way, you will probably have to train it like when you grow up, regular movement and all. Second way, well, you will need to get used to your new arm. Growing a new arm will get better and better until the point where you will be able to get a new arm just like "your old one", but even then the part where the new one is attached to might need quite a bit of work.

I wouldn't want something grown in a lab attached to me.

Also, I don't think that growing it from a stump (which is acceptable to me) will be needing training just like when one was a baby. When one is a baby/kid it is the brain which is trained. All the muscles and nerves are there ready for action. Nothing changes, only the brain is the one which has to learn everything. Now in the case of regeneration, the brain's knowledge is already there, so as soon as the arm grows back you can use it perfectly just like the old one. Just like the gecko can use its re-grown tail....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

As an extra, will you be willing to sacrifice your current part of the body for a mechanical augmentation? For example, trading one of your eye for one which can take pictures at your command and upload it to Facebook. Or having an eye with night vision, etc.

Umm there I think yes.

As long as that eye functions same as my old one, plus more... I'd prefer a webcam eye with integrated wifi and night-vision. I wouldn't object to a terabyte of storage space either. And to 1080p video capture...

But only as long as it looks presentable i.e. not like I had a monocular attached to my face. Well, unless that becomes really fashionable perhaps

Fourstaff · May 21, 2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Panther

Also, I don't think that growing it from a stump (which is acceptable to me) will be needing training just like when one was a baby. When one is a baby/kid it is the brain which is trained. All the muscles and nerves are there ready for action. Nothing changes, only the brain is the one which has to learn everything. Now in the case of regeneration, the brain's knowledge is already there, so as soon as the arm grows back you can use it perfectly just like the old one. Just like the gecko can use its re-grown tail....

If you have torn your muscles, broke a bone etc, you will need rehab because you will most likely not use the aforementioned part for some time and the muscles has gone to waste. In the same line, you will need to bring your newly grown body part "up to speed", and for that to happen you will need to actively train the muscles. A gecko can grow a new tail because evolution granted it, and perfected the art of regenerating that part. In our case, we are doing something a bit more artificial, and therefore more intervention will be needed to get it to grow the way we want it to.

Bo$$ · May 21, 2011, 08:19 PM

I voted mechanical, If science can integrate it fully and make as functional as the real thing then what difference would it make, you would be like the guy from iRobot and there was nothing abnormal about him

lilhasselhoffer · May 21, 2011, 08:59 PM

One word: biocompatibility.

Using regeneration you've got something 100% biocompatible. NO rejection, no degradation due to cellular errosion (two types of surface bone cells, osteoblats and osteclasts, one builds and the other destroys), and no replacing the thing in 5 years.

The proposed benefits of increased strength and endurance are there with mechanical systems. They perform better, but cannot repair themselves. Getting used to a new mechanical arm would be something you would have to repeat every few years, not to mention making travel an extremely unpleasant affair...

Regrowing does pose a longer process, fraught with potential short term (muscle memory, cellular density) problems. The difference is that they would likely be overcome around the time that the alternative experiences the second ongoing set of difficulties.

At this time I would undergo regeneration. If I was 40 I would go prosthetic. There is a reason both options are being researched.

Bo$$ · May 21, 2011, 09:01 PM

well the fact that maybe we can have a hybrid of both technologies is a certain possibility

KainXS · May 21, 2011, 09:12 PM

bio + less cell degredation

hell it would have been possible now if certain groups didn't screw everything up . . . . . . . . .

ChewyBrownSuga · May 22, 2011, 05:15 AM

For me the future lies in bionics. I dream for the day where I can get rid of a damaged body part and replace it with something superior. Prosthesis have come a great distance to where they are able to simulate human touch. it's only a matter of time to where all walking around with some kind of artificial body part.

What jump started my love of bionics and neuroscience was listening to a man named Kevin Warwick. Those his reason to update the human form are a little out there, his ideas are still brilliant(imo).

So to answer the question I would take an artificial replacement over an organic one ^_^

MRCL · May 22, 2011, 05:30 AM

Our captain at the army had a prosthetic leg. 3D HELIX or something like that. Basically with a lot of training, it acts as a real leg and one can walk like normal. When I was in the army under his command he had it for less than a year, and wasn't far from walking normal. He lost his leg in a motorcycle accident, and it was amputated just below the waist.

Well if I would ever loose a limb, I think I'd go for a prosthesis. I'd even volunteer for some new stuff to test or something.

That thing with cyborg eyes Fourstaff brought up - my eyesight sucks so replacing that with an enhanced mechanical duplicate doesn't sound too bad. I'd just swap one eye first tho. And scratch the Facebook feature lol. But basically having a video camera hardwired to your brain sounds not only cool but also very interesting.

But I try to preserve my natural stuff.

Widjaja · May 22, 2011, 05:37 AM

I want upgrades!
So prosthetic would be the way for me as long as the prosthetic appears human.

Oh damn I blew my right arm.
Must have overclocked it too high -_-"

FordGT90Concept · May 22, 2011, 06:18 AM

If we could grow new limbs, it shouldn't be too difficult to increase the muscle cell count and calcium absorption in the bones as well (strong muscles are useless without strong bones). Prosthetics always have the issues of being unnatural and bioengineering can overcome that better than mechanics.

Basically, bioengineering is ideal but prosthetics have to stand in until bioengineering becomes practical.

Bo$$ · May 22, 2011, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widjaja

I want upgrades!
So prosthetic would be the way for me as long as the prosthetic appears human.

Oh damn I blew my right arm.
Must have overclocked it too high -_-"

overclocking is the key....

someone's sig would be just perfect right now, let me find it
Edit: extract from scaminatix's sig

Quote:

True.. mine produces 95W. so with this copper heatsink, i can even pull my cock to 3.6GHz. - de.das.dude
Careful if you are going to Pull that thing at that frequency with a stock set-up, heat can damage sensitive parts - 95Viper
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KieX · May 22, 2011, 05:15 PM

I vote for mechanical replacements. I strongly wish for a future where the human body becomes redundant and we are able to change/upgrade our mech bodies as necessary. Sort of like evolving and overcoming biological constraints. Till such a time, prosthetics all the way.

BinaryMage · May 22, 2011, 05:24 PM

I tend to agree with KieX. First of all, we already do regenerate, albeit at a slow pace. Second, even if we did regenerate much faster, mechanical body parts would be far superior. Even if they aren't now, just consider the pace of technological progress versus the pace of evolution. If we were mechanical, at least partly, our bodies could advance as fast as our technological knowledge and capability did.

Fourstaff · May 22, 2011, 05:27 PM

Yeah, but you will need clunky batteries for mechanical parts. Unless you have some micro nuclear generator or next gen power storage, I cannot see that problem being negated.

BinaryMage · May 22, 2011, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

Yeah, but you will need clunky batteries for mechanical parts. Unless you have some micro nuclear generator or next gen power storage, I cannot see that problem being negated.

Micro nuclear generator? Not as far-fetched as you might think, but I agree unlikely during our lifetimes. But there are plenty of other ways to obtain power that do not require "clunky batteries". First of all, the mechanical components could convert human fat (glucose, which is already produced by the human body) into energy. There are other options including solar power, kinetic energy generation (generating energy by the movement of the body), and probably many more that haven't been invented yet.

KieX · May 22, 2011, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

Yeah, but you will need clunky batteries for mechanical parts. Unless you have some micro nuclear generator or next gen power storage, I cannot see that problem being negated.

It's not like your muscles would need to carry the weight if you have mech limbs.

Not as ergonomic but right now there is an exoskeleton that would negate that weight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdK2y3lphmE

Fourstaff · May 22, 2011, 05:36 PM

Fair enough. I have a feeling that soldiers and people working with high risk of losing their body parts will prefer mechanical limbs and augmentations, whereas people working in "softer" industries will go for regen. Probably we might see something in between, for example titanium bones but fat and muscle otherwise.

View Poll Results: Bioregeneration or Prosthetics?
Regen!	17	60.71%
Mechanical Arm!	11	39.29%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

May 21, 2011, 06:22 PM	#1
Fourstaff TPU Janitor Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Science Museum, Londinium Posts: 5,979 (4.70/day) Thanks: 261 Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,211 Posts System Specs	Prosthetics or Bioregeneration I thought it is a bit odd that people have not created a thread like this (at least with my horribad searching skills), so I created one. If you ever lose a part of your body in the future do you want to regrow that part of your body or are you going to use a mechanical part instead, like Adam Jensen from the upcoming Deus Ex: Human Revolution? Given the rate of advancement in both fields, I think its plausible that in 20 years time, we will be given the option of having either (but will cost you an arm and a leg, no pun intended). I will take bioregeneration over mechanical hands, less hassle. Edit: I noticed that people are just voting and not discussing, if possible, can we do a bit of discussion too? Last edited by Fourstaff; May 21, 2011 at 08:28 PM.

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May 21, 2011, 06:25 PM	#2
Frick Fishfaced Nincompoop Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 7,900 (2.99/day) Thanks: 1,076 Thanked 1,449 Times in 1,155 Posts System Specs	I want both. Regeneration plus enhanced legs. __________________ Typemachine: Acer Aspire One D250 \| Atom N280 1.6 Ghz \| 1GB DDR2 \| 160GB SATA \| 10.1' 1024 x 600 \| Lubuntu 12.10 Oldbox: HP D530 \| Pentium 4 2.8 Ghz \| 1GB DDR \| 40GB \| Windows XP "The 'gentle biker' look is overdone. I'm going for 'psycho hillbilly.' "

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May 21, 2011, 06:28 PM	#3
AphexDreamer Eligible for custom title Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: C:\Program Files (x86)\Aphexdreamer\ Posts: 5,614 (2.59/day) Thanks: 812 Thanked 888 Times in 674 Posts System Specs	I voted regen cause I would like to have my natural body parts, with natural feelings. But I'd change my vote if the mechanical arms or legs would provide extra strength or speed or hight. __________________ Sent from my PC using chrome.

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May 21, 2011, 06:38 PM	#4
Black Panther Senior Moderator™ Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 7,062 (3.23/day) Thanks: 2,170 Thanked 1,838 Times in 1,104 Posts System Specs	Bioregeneration. In the same way as a gecko which loses its tail grows it back on.

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May 21, 2011, 06:40 PM	#5
Fourstaff TPU Janitor Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Science Museum, Londinium Posts: 5,979 (4.70/day) Thanks: 261 Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,211 Posts System Specs	No one wants to have an arm with a built in gun, or fingers doubling up as Swiss army knives? Do note that with regeneration, there will be months if not years of therapy to get it in order.

May 21, 2011, 06:58 PM	#7
Swamp Monster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Latvia Posts: 543 (0.57/day) Thanks: 127 Thanked 83 Times in 75 Posts System Specs	Regeneration preferred, but if mechanical parts can give me the same feelings + improved strength then I could vote mechanical parts too.

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May 21, 2011, 08:19 PM	#11
Bo$$ Join Date: May 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,670 (2.48/day) Thanks: 444 Thanked 770 Times in 679 Posts System Specs	I voted mechanical, If science can integrate it fully and make as functional as the real thing then what difference would it make, you would be like the guy from iRobot and there was nothing abnormal about him __________________ Live in the UK? Join the UK TPU Group! Caution! This is Sparta! Im Looking For... Im Selling Last edited by Bo$$; May 21, 2011 at 08:55 PM.

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May 21, 2011, 08:59 PM	#12
lilhasselhoffer Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 1,160 (1.48/day) Thanks: 107 Thanked 661 Times in 385 Posts System Specs	One word: biocompatibility. Using regeneration you've got something 100% biocompatible. NO rejection, no degradation due to cellular errosion (two types of surface bone cells, osteoblats and osteclasts, one builds and the other destroys), and no replacing the thing in 5 years. The proposed benefits of increased strength and endurance are there with mechanical systems. They perform better, but cannot repair themselves. Getting used to a new mechanical arm would be something you would have to repeat every few years, not to mention making travel an extremely unpleasant affair... Regrowing does pose a longer process, fraught with potential short term (muscle memory, cellular density) problems. The difference is that they would likely be overcome around the time that the alternative experiences the second ongoing set of difficulties. At this time I would undergo regeneration. If I was 40 I would go prosthetic. There is a reason both options are being researched. __________________ You haven't seen anything until you've seen this. pokes computer Wow! I didn't know the blue screen of death could get a blue screen of death.

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May 21, 2011, 09:01 PM	#13
Bo$$ Join Date: May 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,670 (2.48/day) Thanks: 444 Thanked 770 Times in 679 Posts System Specs	well the fact that maybe we can have a hybrid of both technologies is a certain possibility __________________ Live in the UK? Join the UK TPU Group! Caution! This is Sparta! Im Looking For... Im Selling

May 21, 2011, 09:12 PM	#14
KainXS Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,698 (2.27/day) Thanks: 185 Thanked 465 Times in 382 Posts System Specs	bio + less cell degredation hell it would have been possible now if certain groups didn't screw everything up . . . . . . . . .

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May 22, 2011, 05:15 AM	#15
ChewyBrownSuga Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 377 (0.27/day) Thanks: 97 Thanked 69 Times in 53 Posts System Specs	For me the future lies in bionics. I dream for the day where I can get rid of a damaged body part and replace it with something superior. Prosthesis have come a great distance to where they are able to simulate human touch. it's only a matter of time to where all walking around with some kind of artificial body part. What jump started my love of bionics and neuroscience was listening to a man named Kevin Warwick. Those his reason to update the human form are a little out there, his ideas are still brilliant(imo). So to answer the question I would take an artificial replacement over an organic one ^_^

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May 22, 2011, 05:30 AM	#16
MRCL Join Date: May 2008 Location: Switzerland, Heart of Europe Posts: 3,798 (2.09/day) Thanks: 340 Thanked 862 Times in 705 Posts System Specs	Our captain at the army had a prosthetic leg. 3D HELIX or something like that. Basically with a lot of training, it acts as a real leg and one can walk like normal. When I was in the army under his command he had it for less than a year, and wasn't far from walking normal. He lost his leg in a motorcycle accident, and it was amputated just below the waist. Well if I would ever loose a limb, I think I'd go for a prosthesis. I'd even volunteer for some new stuff to test or something. That thing with cyborg eyes Fourstaff brought up - my eyesight sucks so replacing that with an enhanced mechanical duplicate doesn't sound too bad. I'd just swap one eye first tho. And scratch the Facebook feature lol. But basically having a video camera hardwired to your brain sounds not only cool but also very interesting. But I try to preserve my natural stuff. __________________ [I.R.A.] FBi I wouldnt buy toilet paper from MSI as it may be missing the preforations

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May 22, 2011, 05:37 AM	#17
Widjaja Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wangas, New Zealand Posts: 4,023 (1.85/day) Thanks: 241 Thanked 617 Times in 534 Posts System Specs	I want upgrades! So prosthetic would be the way for me as long as the prosthetic appears human. Oh damn I blew my right arm. Must have overclocked it too high -_-"

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May 22, 2011, 06:18 AM	#18
FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!" Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: IA, USA Posts: 10,583 (6.28/day) Thanks: 1,755 Thanked 2,600 Times in 1,962 Posts System Specs	If we could grow new limbs, it shouldn't be too difficult to increase the muscle cell count and calcium absorption in the bones as well (strong muscles are useless without strong bones). Prosthetics always have the issues of being unnatural and bioengineering can overcome that better than mechanics. Basically, bioengineering is ideal but prosthetics have to stand in until bioengineering becomes practical. __________________ Golden Rule of Programming: Never assume. try { SteamDownload(); } catch (Steamception ex) { RageQuit(); }

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May 22, 2011, 05:15 PM	#20
KieX Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: A Coruña, Spain Posts: 2,050 (1.63/day) Thanks: 6,950 Thanked 2,643 Times in 1,136 Posts System Specs	I vote for mechanical replacements. I strongly wish for a future where the human body becomes redundant and we are able to change/upgrade our mech bodies as necessary. Sort of like evolving and overcoming biological constraints. Till such a time, prosthetics all the way. __________________

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May 22, 2011, 05:24 PM	#21
BinaryMage Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 606 (0.72/day) Thanks: 850 Thanked 457 Times in 266 Posts System Specs	I tend to agree with KieX. First of all, we already do regenerate, albeit at a slow pace. Second, even if we did regenerate much faster, mechanical body parts would be far superior. Even if they aren't now, just consider the pace of technological progress versus the pace of evolution. If we were mechanical, at least partly, our bodies could advance as fast as our technological knowledge and capability did. __________________ Donate your idle CPU/GPU cycles and help save lives - crunch and fold for TechPowerUp!

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May 22, 2011, 05:27 PM	#22
Fourstaff TPU Janitor Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Science Museum, Londinium Posts: 5,979 (4.70/day) Thanks: 261 Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,211 Posts System Specs	Yeah, but you will need clunky batteries for mechanical parts. Unless you have some micro nuclear generator or next gen power storage, I cannot see that problem being negated.

May 22, 2011, 05:36 PM	#25
Fourstaff TPU Janitor Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Science Museum, Londinium Posts: 5,979 (4.70/day) Thanks: 261 Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,211 Posts System Specs	Fair enough. I have a feeling that soldiers and people working with high risk of losing their body parts will prefer mechanical limbs and augmentations, whereas people working in "softer" industries will go for regen. Probably we might see something in between, for example titanium bones but fat and muscle otherwise.

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