28 nm struggles: TSMC & GlobalFoundries

[xenocide]

Originally Posted by seronx

GlobalFoundries 32nm-SHP should be the most expensive process yet it is cheaper than Intel's 32nm high-end process

Intel's is more expensive because it is a better product with more reliable yields. They first shipped product developed using High-K in 2007, GF just barely did it in 2011. Then there's the whole gate-first vs. gate-last situation. Overall Intel is just doing better than GF, as they should, since they cherry-pick the best engineers in the world\industry.

[Wiselnvestor]

"At 45-nm, only NVIDIA was affected. At 28-nm any problems for TSMC will be problems for many customers" said Bryant.

So I take this as a hint that NVDA will delay once again their line of next gen gpu's. Or something they(or anyone) can use to say that it's not entirely their fault i presume.

[largon]

And besides, nVIDIA and 45nm?
Is there a 45nm GPU by nV? Must've missed that...

[seronx]

Originally Posted by largon

I guess by "development" you only meant the lenght of the development cycle, not technological advancement, shrinkage of fab processes, etc.

The SOI department are already testing 8nm-5nm FD-SOI FinFet UTBOX

Time to Volume is longer because the cost to mass produce the tools is expensive

Originally Posted by largon

Yet, AMD's chips are slower and consume considerably more power.
http://largon.wippiespace.com/smilies/shrug.gif

Slower is an architecture thing(They choose to go to FMA(Then Round) in a FADD(Then Round)+FMUL(Then Round) world) but by design it is above Intel designs where 32nm/22nm are still stock @3.5GHz Stock for the i7 2700K/i7 3770K

Trinity 3.8GHz @ 100W
Komodo/Vishera 3.9-4.2GHz @ 125W

Sandy Bridge Integer Pipeline 14
Bulldozer Integer Pipeline 15

The clock rates wouldn't be possible if the fabrication process was doo doo, We didn't get 65nm again(You know Phenom I @ 2.6GHz and less, Imagine FX @ Opteron 4200 Clocks while @ 140Ws)

Originally Posted by xenocide

Intel's is more expensive because it is a better product with more reliable yields.

I don't see Intel designs getting any overclocking records with x86 CPUs

So Reliable my bum

[claylomax]

What a contrast: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/d...apid_Ramp.html

[xenocide]

Originally Posted by seronx

I don't see Intel designs getting any overclocking records with x86 CPUs

They held the record before--with a Netburst Celeron. Clock Speed doesn't mean shit if the Performance per Clock is bad, and Intel outperforms AMD clock-for-clock. If I recall, Intel also locks down their CPU's to ensure they have longer lifespans and run more reliably where as AMD just mass produces them and says HAVE AT with the BE CPU's. While BD holding the OC record is impressive in it's own rite, it is not indicative of actual performance.

I also meant Reliability in terms of their yield and manufacturing capacity. If Intel says they will have a product ready by a certain time frame, they always are. Alternatively GF producing low yield (whether or not it was their fault remains to be seen) delayed BD quite substantially.

[DarkOCean]

I don't believe this. I think they are saying this just to justify higher prices; they did the same on 40nm node.

[Casecutter]

No surprise here... Been saying this all along about such production issues (those are somewhat behind us now Mike Bryant is many weeks late in his statments), and that TSMC big bump in 28Nm chip pricings, things are what they are.

AMD development and design permits them to get into TSMC first, but with that they get to field and encounter more of TSMC set-backs as they surface. Nvidia comes along several weeks later, although there’s their own teething pains’; they have fewer as some process problems are already sort through.

We’re all astounded at AMD 7970 price, but Nvidia has still yet made it into the batter’s box... How will it play out? Nvidia needs to come with a GK104 first just to be reavant on price. Sure while the GK110 will have performance, the price is probably shockingly prohibitive in this current economic landscape. Waiting a few months will numb us and provide opportunity to get better yields.

Nvidia is making a smart move, wait for the graduation/summer buy season to drop their bomb.

[dude12564]

Originally Posted by st.bone

You seem to know the details. I've had this info before, do you by any chance know where i can find Intel's read map, i used to find them on their website but nowadays i cant seem to see them, so if you can find the road map please post it or post a link preferably PDF

I didn't find this on a road map from Intel specifically.
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...c-skylake.aspx
That's a site for Intel's architectures for DT/MB till skylake.

I do not remember which site had the info for intel mobile phones, but what I do remember is that it had 3 boxes with the architecture names, with their respective years.

Originally Posted by seronx

I don't see Intel designs getting any overclocking records with x86 CPUs

So Reliable my bum

Reliable doesn't necessarily mean that it has to beat overclocking records.