AMD to Drop Support for Pre-HD 5000 GPUs with Catalyst 12.7

[RejZoR]

Originally Posted by xenocide

I have had the exact opposite experience. With Nvidia I could always just install over, but with AMD I usually have to do an uninstall and restart before installing the newer drivers. It's gotten worse since I got my HD5850, now I have to do driver sweeps inbetween restarts before installing, and even then it's only successful like 75% of the time.

Bullshit galore. I'm installing Catalyst drivers over old ones since the days i owned Radeon 9600 Pro (and later on x1950 Pro, HD4850, HD4870, HD5850, HD6870 and now HD6950). Only thing that changed over the years is that you now don't have to restart after the upgrade. Before you had to. But other than that it works perfectly fine for years.
And same applies to NVIDIA as well. Have been updating them with install over the old one since the GeForce 2 MX days (and later GeForce 2 Pro, geForce 4 Ti4200, GeForce 6600GT, GeForce 7300GT, GeForce 7600GT, GeForce 8400GS) and never had any problems.
So i'd say i know the drivers prety well.

[eidairaman1]

Originally Posted by RejZoR

Bullshit galore. I'm installing Catalyst drivers over old ones since the days i owned Radeon 9600 Pro (and later on x1950 Pro, HD4850, HD4870, HD5850, HD6870 and now HD6950). Only thing that changed over the years is that you now don't have to restart after the upgrade. Before you had to. But other than that it works perfectly fine for years.
And same applies to NVIDIA as well. Have been updating them with install over the old one since the GeForce 2 MX days (and later GeForce 2 Pro, geForce 4 Ti4200, GeForce 6600GT, GeForce 7300GT, GeForce 7600GT, GeForce 8400GS) and never had any problems.
So i'd say i know the drivers prety well.

to me it seems its only worth it if switching card brands or to a different card series

[RejZoR]

For that, you need to indeed. I had severe problems after using GeForce and then switching to Radeon. Even though i've uninstalled NVIDIA drivers something was still causing problems.
After a proper cleanup everythingw as fine. I've never experienced such problem going the other way around (from Radeon to NVIDIA)...

[Dent1]

Originally Posted by KieranD

Then i thought the same as newtekie1, if someone wanted to throw in an old card just for display, why not support them in a windows 8 driver release?

But it will be supported in Windows 8 as a legacy driver, released every once month opposed to once a month.

Originally Posted by Delta6326

...I take it you live in a city and/or not in USA. As nationally USA has slow internet and still a large part has Dial Up. I live in the country about 20 min. out and the only thing is Dial Up, Satellite which the providers out here have caps of 350MB/day or Cell phone tower internet(I have this one).

If broadband sends a line to my home I will sign up that day

Other than slow internet I really don't care about the file size as I start most my downloads at night before bed.

Ouch, aint used dialup since about 2002. Time to complain to your local council or move lol

[eidairaman1]

Originally Posted by RejZoR

For that, you need to indeed. I had severe problems after using GeForce and then switching to Radeon. Even though i've uninstalled NVIDIA drivers something was still causing problems.
After a proper cleanup everythingw as fine. I've never experienced such problem going the other way around (from Radeon to NVIDIA)...

its because Nvidia doesnt want you using AMD. Even drivers that are built into windows from Nvidia cause problems if your card is auto detected

[xenocide]

Originally Posted by Mussels

i never have any issues with drivers updating over the top, unless i do one of two things.

1. install beta drivers, then retail drivers with older dates than the betas (must uninstall/reboot there)

2. driver sweeper. seriously, if i ever do use it, i end up stuck using it. it breaks more than it fixes most of the time, and should only be used as a last resort before a format.

I never used to until I got my HD5850. With my HD4870 I would usually install over and it worked pretty well, I had one funky error that was my fault with my old Q6600 setup because I was being dumb and listening to music while watching YouTube videos and installing drivers, my system had a seizure and blue-screened.

I also never used to have to Driver Sweep until I started getting issues. Whenever I try regularly installing it will say--quite literally--"Driver Installation Successful, but with Unknown Errors" and have a Grey Question Mark circle instead of the Green Check Mark circle. I'd never say it's an issue exclusive to AMD\ATi, but when I had my 7800GS I never had such issues, and even my x800 handled installing over a lot better.

[xBruce88x]

Originally Posted by eidairaman1

never had any issues with them here, my bro infact updated ontop of his drivers without a hitch cuz the drivers said there was a driver update

Originally Posted by xenocide

I have had the exact opposite experience. With Nvidia I could always just install over, but with AMD I usually have to do an uninstall and restart before installing the newer drivers. It's gotten worse since I got my HD5850, now I have to do driver sweeps inbetween restarts before installing, and even then it's only successful like 75% of the time.

what OS? i'm wondering if an OS difference had anything to do with one having good luck and the other not.

Originally Posted by Mussels

i never have any issues with drivers updating over the top, unless i do one of two things.

1. install beta drivers, then retail drivers with older dates than the betas (must uninstall/reboot there)

2. driver sweeper. seriously, if i ever do use it, i end up stuck using it. it breaks more than it fixes most of the time, and should only be used as a last resort before a format.

yea i've noticed that with driver sweeper too, I don't use it as much anymore. the only time i use it is if i switch from ati to nvidia or vice versa. I hate having leftovers of catalyst control center in my menus and such and getting errors about files not found or no ati card present.

Originally Posted by xBruce88x

Ever since AMD went all nuts over having to use .net for their drivers (well for their control panel), it seems their driver quality hasn't been so great. On my laptop I use 3rd party drivers (omegadrivers.net i think)

Actually now that i think about it, its only been since vista drivers that i've had problems with amd/ati. nothing too hard to fix/work around though. I do find it annoying that i couldn't set custom refresh rates for my monitor (since the last time i used an ati card anyway, 3200igp)

[Steevo]

Originally Posted by xenocide

I never used to until I got my HD5850. With my HD4870 I would usually install over and it worked pretty well, I had one funky error that was my fault with my old Q6600 setup because I was being dumb and listening to music while watching YouTube videos and installing drivers, my system had a seizure and blue-screened.

I also never used to have to Driver Sweep until I started getting issues. Whenever I try regularly installing it will say--quite literally--"Driver Installation Successful, but with Unknown Errors" and have a Grey Question Mark circle instead of the Green Check Mark circle. I'd never say it's an issue exclusive to AMD\ATi, but when I had my 7800GS I never had such issues, and even my x800 handled installing over a lot better.

I used to get that too, it was caused by me not using the ATI HDMI sound driver as the default device. Odd quirk, but now since I use my TV as my primary monitor I never have the issue.

[eidairaman1]

He is now Using Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit. I initially had installed catalyst 11.8/11.9 Drivers He installed over those since CCC stated there is a driver update, now he has Catalyst 11.12, I told Him not to update drivers every Month and just leave what he has in there.

I Used to do the thorough wipe out. on My laptop I have to use Mobility Modder since the OEM is responsible for driver releases, bear in mind my laptop is 7-8 years old now

Originally Posted by xBruce88x

what OS? i'm wondering if an OS difference had anything to do with one having good luck and the other not.



yea i've noticed that with driver sweeper too, I don't use it as much anymore. the only time i use it is if i switch from ati to nvidia or vice versa. I hate having leftovers of catalyst control center in my menus and such and getting errors about files not found or no ati card present.



Actually now that i think about it, its only been since vista drivers that i've had problems with amd/ati. nothing too hard to fix/work around though. I do find it annoying that i couldn't set custom refresh rates for my monitor (since the last time i used an ati card anyway, 3200igp)

[ThE_MaD_ShOt]

Originally Posted by RejZoR

Bullshit galore. I'm installing Catalyst drivers over old ones since the days i owned Radeon 9600 Pro (and later on x1950 Pro, HD4850, HD4870, HD5850, HD6870 and now HD6950). Only thing that changed over the years is that you now don't have to restart after the upgrade. Before you had to. But other than that it works perfectly fine for years.
And same applies to NVIDIA as well. Have been updating them with install over the old one since the GeForce 2 MX days (and later GeForce 2 Pro, geForce 4 Ti4200, GeForce 6600GT, GeForce 7300GT, GeForce 7600GT, GeForce 8400GS) and never had any problems.
So i'd say i know the drivers prety well.

I do the same thing. I even use the Amd driver auto finder thingy to update the drivers. I haven't uninstalled a driver in years to update. Hell when I set up crossfire on this rig I simply shut it down, moved the card it was using down and installed the new card as primary, installed crossfire bridge. Then booted up, let window do it found new hardware thing and all was good. Didn't uninstall the drivers or install any drivers.

[kafkacell]

CEO of AMD must be a badass for just cutting support to HD 2xxx HD 3XXX (until last year I owned an HD 3850 and it worked great even on new games) and HD 4XXX.

Maybe it's just my opinion, but it's real: they are cutting support to million of AMD happy users.

Maybe HD 2xxx it's under the logical limits (they are old, not very powerfull and maybe those users will understand), but come on HD 4980 for example? that card still have a lot of power inside.

regards.

[ThE_MaD_ShOt]

Well the hd 3xxx series is still supported by the newest drivers (12.3) under win xp, vista, and 7. I just updated the drivers on 2 of my crunchers running 3650's last week.

[DarthCyclonis]

This comes as no surprise. Seems AMD is taking a page out of Intel's play book. They want to sell more cards and want to force people to change every few platforms.

[eidairaman1]

Originally Posted by kafkacell

CEO of AMD must be a badass for just cutting support to HD 2xxx HD 3XXX (until last year I owned an HD 3850 and it worked great even on new games) and HD 4XXX.

Maybe it's just my opinion, but it's real: they are cutting support to million of AMD happy users.

Maybe HD 2xxx it's under the logical limits (they are old, not very powerfull and maybe those users will understand), but come on HD 4980 for example? that card still have a lot of power inside.

regards.

3000 series are just a die shrink of the 2000 series, Hence why performance gains are nill between 3870 and 2900XT.

Originally Posted by DarthCyclonis

This comes as no surprise. Seems AMD is taking a page out of Intel's play book. They want to sell more cards and want to force people to change every few platforms.

NV did this to NF Users NF1-NF4 by completely dropping driver support (updates) right before Vista Launched so they are just as guilty of greed if not more. If NV released a worthwhile GART driver that doesn't prevent users from using another makers cards (AMD, Matrox, Kyro) with an AMD Dual Core on NF3 Platforms and an Optimized Gart that works like the XP one of NF2 Platfroms (Not built into windows as that is the 440BX chipset GART). They would not be considered greedy.


On Another Note about 100% of Average Joes never upgrade their drivers or Bios Files so this pretty much doesnt mean anything to them, and the enthusiast market is a very very small percentile its not even funny

[Mussels]

do people think they're going to remove any and all driver support for these cards, or what? a lack of monthly updates shouldnt cause all this doom and gloom.

[eidairaman1]

Originally Posted by Mussels

do people think they're going to remove any and all driver support for these cards, or what? a lack of monthly updates shouldnt cause all this doom and gloom.

I agree with you on this. THis doesnt bother me as much as Myself still run old hardware.

My Bro is who owns the fastest computer in the house right now.

I myself have been saying isnt it time that some cards have drivers reduced because they are not focused on as much anyways.

[ThE_MaD_ShOt]

It also doesn't bother me at all. I still run some older cards. I can do without monthly updates. Hell if they only did yearly updates it wouldn't bother me. I have yet to understand why they need to do monthly updates.

[eidairaman1]

Originally Posted by ThE_MaD_ShOt

It also doesn't bother me at all. I still run some older cards. I can do without monthly updates. Hell if they only did yearly updates it wouldn't bother me. I have yet to understand why they need to do monthly updates.

Because users were bitching that NV at the time had monthly updates and AMD didnt so they increased the driver releases which to me are pointless anyway, considering they have the Feedback program to implement fixes in the next driver set even hotfixes when an issue is very common amongst several hardware configurations. A Quarterly release will definitly work as it is not worth updating drivers every month as it just leads to trouble, just do it like 3-4 months.

CCC/Drivers on my Bros machine is ver 11.12 he upgraded from 11.8/11.9 (whichever was released in early september) Still running the motherboard drivers off ASRock site with newer lan and Audio drivers as of September of last year

[KissSh0t]

I remember when they axed support for the 1000 series cards, at the time I had a X1900XTX

Then I was like （╯°v°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[Dippyskoodlez]

Originally Posted by KissSh0t

I remember when they axed support for the 1000 series cards, at the time I had a X1900XTX

Then I was like （╯°v°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Most people here obviously don't follow their linux support either. My X1800XL AIW was still supported by the main release, but the Linux driver had dropped support like 2-3 months before, enough that I got no 3d under the current (at the time) ubuntu.

Driver support in general, has prettymuch eliminated linux from my choice of use,

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by ThE_MaD_ShOt

It also doesn't bother me at all. I still run some older cards. I can do without monthly updates. Hell if they only did yearly updates it wouldn't bother me. I have yet to understand why they need to do monthly updates.

So no support for these cards in Win8 doesn't bother you then?

[djxinator]

Yay, all focus on DX11

[Steevo]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

So no support for these cards in Win8 doesn't bother you then?

Can you point out where that is said?


Really, really, really , really old cards are supported in Windows 7, doesn't mean its a good idea, but they are.


I have an idea, lest actually go LOOK for drivers and see what we find, for a 9600XT for example, or a 9550


Linux X86 X64
Windows through 7 X64


Damn, and how old is that card?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R300


2002 cards fully supported in a 2009 OS that is now 3 years old itself.

[Mr McC]

Originally Posted by mtosev

Lucky me as I have a HD 5000 series card

There is little solace to be gained knowing that ill fate has visited another, particularly when you know that you are next in line.

[kn00tcn]

yeesh, so many crazy people

pre dx9 cards were dropped a long time ago ~6.4?
pre dx10 cards dropped ~9.3?
pre dx11 cards could be dropped ~12.7?

& the big deal is? my old comps with 9800pro & x800xtpe are still on omega 7.10 & 7.12, there's no need to update constantly every month unless there is a problem

sure now things are complicated since more people have CF, but most CAP updates dont require a new driver dll

also CEO of AMD? what a moronic joke, the CEO is obviously not the one managing the driver team since the pre dx9 drop happened at least THREE CEOs ago

gee, let's say the driver (or QA) team is 5-10x smaller than nvidia's, why waste resources all the time for no gains, just some bug fixes IF any, & a shrinking installbase (especially this month) http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

Originally Posted by eidairaman1

A Quarterly release will definitly work as it is not worth updating drivers every month as it just leads to trouble, just do it like 3-4 months.

nope.... UE3 pixelated sunshafts on 5 series, rage issues, skyrim issues, brink issues, etc, waiting 3-4 months to release things is a bad idea, unless you just mean WHQL while having various hotfixes in between

the thing is, why does everyone assume they're being overworked & freaking out about the monthly cycle? they're CONSTANTLY writing drivers, there are many branches & versions, someone just picks one to be a WHQL candidate, once it's sent to microsoft, they continue writing future drivers & what comes out as WHQL is 2-4 weeks after it was written


EDIT: http://www.rage3d.com/index.php?cat=75#newsid33989241

The reason for the shift in support policy is largely due to the fact that the AMD Radeon HD 2000, AMD Radeon HD 3000, and AMD Radeon HD 4000 Series have been optimized to their maximum potential from a performance and feature perspective.

The 8.97 based driver, released in May 2012 will be the first driver for the AMD Radeon HD 2000, AMD Radeon HD 3000, and AMD Radeon HD 4000 Series under the new support model; it is an extremely stable and robust driver branch for these products and will be the baseline for our quarterly updates.

the In-the-box AMD Graphics driver that ships with Windows 8 will include support for the AMD Radeon HD 2000, 3000, and 4000 Series, and it will support the WDDM 1.1 driver level features. The AMD Catalyst driver for Windows 8 will only include support for WDDM 1.2 support products (AMD Radeon HD 5000 and later).

8.97 has not leaked i dont think, good user reports mostly for 8.96 (12.4?)