Enthusiasts Debate on Hardware Technology

[T4C Fantasy]

Hey all, I want to start a debate on what enthusiasts think on how technology is being made, produced and innovated, for example... I would like to point out why we are not using XDR memory in gpus and would like an enthusiasts opinion on that.

also i would like to know from an enthusiasts opinion what the technology standard should be at if there wasn't such a cost for resources and development.

would optical technology surpass copper technology?

why not use silver technology as a premium for those that can afford it? like a PCI-E 3.1 Silver Edition or (EE) Extreme Edition for conductive throughput.. also SE for silver edition would work could also stand for second edition... what about tungsten plated heat sinks?

whats your opinion on 3d (tri-gate) transistors? just a marketing scheme or is it really revolutionary?

some people think technology moves fast... but some of us think it doesnt move fast enough.

i would also like to welcome questions you may have on how or what technology innovation should be done, whether its CPU, RAM, SSD, GPU, Cooling.. doesnt matter.

[Sasqui]

Much of the state of the art is driven by enconmy of scale and the technology to produce. Optical has already beat out copper in long distance data transfer, but not on the micro scale... because current systems are metal conductor.

Tri-Gate? I think it's going to take some time to refine the manufacturing process, but it is and will be a huge leap with maturity.

Common theme here?

[T4C Fantasy]

Originally Posted by Sasqui

Much of the state of the art is driven by enconmy of scale and the technology to produce. Optical has already beat out copper in long distance data transfer, but not on the micro scale... because current systems are metal conductor.

Tri-Gate? I think it's going to take some time to refine the manufacturing process, but it is and will be a huge leap with maturity.

Common theme here?

a decussion (debate) over general hardware technology, but a common theme for this would be motherboard specific

also would like to add, since super computers use the latest technology and sometimes even gaming grade hardware, from an enthusiasts standpoint... shouldnt super computers use an entirely different and more efficient technology then what the consumers use? if optical is better why not develop a metal/non-metal conductor based super computer using optical hardware technology?

why not use Silver technology, more expensive but why not make it a premium.. silver is 9% more conductive than copper

[T4C Fantasy]

why doesnt intel make premium EE model cpus using silver technology and instead of silicon using nano-carbon, it may cost more to make but thats why it would be branded a premium enthusiasts edition it would cost alot more to buy.... it would sell...

[slyfox2151]

LOL nano-carbon?

no one could afford to buy it... let alone making it.

[T4C Fantasy]

Originally Posted by slyfox2151

LOL nano-carbon?

no one could afford to buy it... let alone making it.

yes but intel has enough to make protoypes and what i am saying here is it "doesn't" need to be in mass productions, make maybe 12 specialized chips sell them to developpers and it could lead to mass productions.. a perfect example of this kind of strategy would be the ps3, the ps3 used superior technology than what pcs were using in 2006, 1 ps3 equaled 12 or 18 pcs... and it also cost more to make then what they sold it for.

also intel is already in the makes of a 50-core co processor that runs on pci-e an equivilent would be an nvidia tesla

[slyfox2151]

Originally Posted by T4C Fantasy

yes but intel has enough to make protoypes and what i am saying here is it "doesn't" need to be in mass productions, make maybe 12 specialized chips sell them to developpers and it could lead to mass productions.. a perfect example of this kind of strategy would be the ps3, the ps3 used superior technology than what pcs were using in 2006, 1 ps3 equaled 12 or 18 pcs... and it also cost more to make then what they sold it for.

no the PS3 did not.... it also has a very different CPU not used in normal PCs. Cell CPUs dont support x86 code... thus wont work at all with windows.
if you want you can buy these and run linux on them however.



and as far as i know (afaik) so far they have not been able to make nano tubes of any useful size for CPUs. its currently technologically impossible.

[T4C Fantasy]

Originally Posted by slyfox2151

no the PS3 did not.... it also has a very different CPU not used in normal PCs. Cell CPUs dont support x86 code... thus wont work at all with windows.


if you want you can buy these and run linux on them however.

when the ps3 did come out it was equivilent to about 12 or more pcs.. its a fact and it says it in al lthe reviews under folding, and it has been shown that a ps3 can run windows

[slyfox2151]

Originally Posted by T4C Fantasy

also intel is already in the makes of a 50-core co processor that runs on pci-e an equivilent would be an nvidia tesla

just like the intel 80 Core CPU? and larrabee? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrabe...roarchitecture)
Sounds like vaporware to me :P

Originally Posted by T4C Fantasy

when the ps3 did come out it was equivilent to about 12 or more pcs.. its a fact and it says it in al lthe reviews under folding, and it has been shown that a ps3 can run windows

Yes and No. the biggest advantage is what all consoles have, very low overheads. if you only look at one aspect then sure the PS3 was more powerful then the average PC... it could fold well since the Cell cpu is very good at that.
Your comparing a 7 core CPU vs a duel core with very different architectures.\

and windows is run in software mode from linux. not really the same thing.

But IIRC you could also fold on AMD GPUs with stream.... this surely would have been more powerful then the PS3. (remember the PS3 was around $700 after release for quite some time.)

[T4C Fantasy]

Originally Posted by slyfox2151

just like the intel 80 Core CPU? and larrabee? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrabe...roarchitecture)
Sounds like vaporware to me :P





Yes and No. the biggest advantage is what all consoles have, very low overheads. if you only look at one aspect then sure the PS3 was more powerful then the average PC... it could fold well since the Cell cpu is very good at that.
Your comparing a 7 core CPU vs a duel core with very different architectures.\

and windows is run in software mode from linux. not really the same thing.

But IIRC you could also fold on AMD GPUs with stream.... this surely would have been more powerful then the PS3. (remember the PS3 was around $700 after release for quite some time.)

vaporware? ive heard this term before what is it never bothered to check

[T4C Fantasy]

even so about the nano carbon, i admit i wasnt considering the fact that nano carbon is still underdevelopped, silver technology is far from being out of reach to the general public of enthusiasts.

[erocker]

Profitablility drives innovation at the consumer level, nothing else.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by erocker

Profitablility drives innovation at the consumer level, nothing else.

You mean people don't pursue innovation for the good of mankind? People wanna work for profit! HOW DARE YOU SIR! You are a disaster of a liberal!

[slyfox2151]

would silver really make a significant difference? surely if it is Intel IBM or AMD would have made one for special purpose machines of some sort.

[erocker]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

You mean people don't pursue innovation for the good of mankind? People wanna work for profit! HOW DARE YOU SIR! You are a disaster of a liberal!

Fa... Oh wait. Inappropriate for here, lol. Anyways, this is why I said "on a consumer level". There are definitely those who innovate for the sake of innovation (maybe mankind), but money is the allmighty King and decision maker.

[theeldest]

Originally Posted by T4C Fantasy

why not use silver technology as a premium for those that can afford it? like a PCI-E 3.1 Silver Edition or (EE) Extreme Edition for conductive throughput.. also SE for silver edition would work could also stand for second edition... what about tungsten plated heat sinks?

What do you mean by "Silver Technology"?

Do you mean literally using silver instead of copper?

[slyfox2151]

Originally Posted by theeldest

What do you mean by "Silver Technology"?

Do you mean literally using silver instead of copper?

I believe that's exactly what he ment.

[theeldest]

Originally Posted by slyfox2151

I believe that's exactly what he ment.

If that's the case there's no reason to go from copper to something else. The reason we use copper is that it's conductive and resistant to degradation. Silver doesn't offer improvements over copper that would mean anything.

And it's not like they can just put a bar of silver into the machine and have silver parts come out instead of copper. They would need entirely new machines for the new materials. That just doesn't make sense.

The march of progress is all about making small changes and having the small changes add up to big changes.

We won't see new materials (nano-tubes, graphene, etc) until we're no long able to maintain the pace of change on current materials.

The same goes for new technology: we won't see XDR until it either offers a huge & tangible advangate over GDDR5 or changes to GDDR become too difficult that we need to look elsewhere.



And with these other technologies, even if they're theoretically better than current tech, if it can't be implemented with at least a semblance of cost effectiveness it's not really an advancement.

[theoneandonlymrk]

Originally Posted by T4C Fantasy

Hey all, I want to start a debate on what enthusiasts think on how technology is being made, produced and innovated, for example... I would like to point out why we are not using XDR memory in gpus and would like an enthusiasts opinion on that.

also i would like to know from an enthusiasts opinion what the technology standard should be at if there wasn't such a cost for resources and development.

would optical technology surpass copper technology?

why not use silver technology as a premium for those that can afford it? like a PCI-E 3.1 Silver Edition or (EE) Extreme Edition for conductive throughput.. also SE for silver edition would work could also stand for second edition... what about tungsten plated heat sinks?

whats your opinion on 3d (tri-gate) transistors? just a marketing scheme or is it really revolutionary?

some people think technology moves fast... but some of us think it doesnt move fast enough.

i would also like to welcome questions you may have on how or what technology innovation should be done, whether its CPU, RAM, SSD, GPU, Cooling.. doesnt matter.

I personally want to see more dual socket mobo's maybe a few quads too

optical will piss all over copper when its matured from mere concept pieces

why would they use silver when most gold plate to some degree or other, most interconnects. even mid teir boards have this as gold plated spring steel wears better then copper with little reduction in conductivity and lower cost( easier to plate too )

3d transistors are a bit of both in that they were hyped for PR purposes, but were also an advancement but not that not That bigger leap in technology, and many others are working on similar process types , essentially a gate last design( layered chip) a much bigger, Massively majorly bigger change thats eminent( within this year but deff next afaik) is TVS 4D cubes( stacked chips with circuits interconeccted vertically inside the chip) as a processor and interface circuit plus a seperate fully featured Gpu and the memory for them both to use will soon All be built in one chip, with the interconnect distance reduced this much the performance of such an chip (APU) would be (ps4) fantasticly Epic especially when focused on games

waters going global a tells thee, chip heats going thru the roof for a few years

oh and carbon nano tubes are sodding years off being usefull in anyway ,and intel could not with any amount of money change that, IBM are farest forward with a direct optical interface chip afaik and have working silicon but no ones made a useable(in chip ) optical transistor yet.

no one is yet capable of makeing a useable or sellable(in any way) Quantum computer, optical procaessor or carbon nano tube proc, the next big likely change might be graphine cpu's that are normal cpu's useing graphine doped silicon afaik after stacked chips 4D

[T4C Fantasy]

Originally Posted by slyfox2151

would silver really make a significant difference? surely if it is Intel IBM or AMD would have made one for special purpose machines of some sort.

well as far as metals goes silver is the best conductor of electricity 9% better than copper

[slyfox2151]

Originally Posted by T4C Fantasy

well as far as metals goes silver is the best conductor of electricity 9% better than copper

yes this is true... but would it really have a good performance impact?

[theeldest]

Originally Posted by T4C Fantasy

well as far as metals goes silver is the best conductor of electricity 9% better than copper

You didn't happen to buy HDMI cables that have gold plated connectors and advanced shielding for better picture quality, did you?

[T4C Fantasy]

Originally Posted by theeldest

You didn't happen to buy HDMI cables that have gold plated connectors and advanced shielding for better picture quality, did you?

ha-ha no i got the cheapest ones because that is different

essentially more conductivity means better heat transfer and less heat in general meaning therotically more power per watt

[theoneandonlymrk]

still not got passed the silver bit eh, debate on tech not materials, silvers a great idea, so great they had it years ago then skipped to gold and now they dont want metal interconnects at all, silver does not make a future inovation happen and is essentially a none starter of a plan

does anyone know what material Tsv's (inner chip interconnects)are made of ,now theres a possible future use for a carbon nanotube< ive patented that, not damn

[slyfox2151]

hes talking silver for the chip itself... not the interconnect.