TechPowerUp! Official IC Diamond Test

[Random Murderer]

Originally Posted by t_ski

I'm a firm believer that you need to maximize your heat removal by directing the channels in a waterblock (or the pipes on a HDT cooler) perpendicular to the core. I'm just trying to make sure mine is done that way.

So that pic is enough for your purposes?

[t_ski]

Possibly - XS is down for the moment

[Random Murderer]

Originally Posted by t_ski

Possibly - XS is down for the moment

np, mocking up a shitty paint pic for you to demonstrate the orientation.
this post will be edited with said shitty image when i'm done.

EDIT: Here you are, my friend.

[ChaoticG8R]

Are there still tubes available? ON MY HONOR IN EXCHANGE FOR FREE COMPOUND I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR TO TEST AND POST MY RESULTS

Got 1 690 and 1 3930K I'd like to try out!!

[Arctucas]

@ICDiamond,

Five weeks ago, or thereabouts, you said you would make available for purchase sample sized pieces of the Prescale film.

So...?

[stinger608]

Originally Posted by Arctucas

@ICDiamond,

Five weeks ago, or thereabouts, you said you would make available for purchase sample sized pieces of the Prescale film.

So...?

I will contact Andrew regarding this Arctucas. Thanks for the reminder man.

[DOM]

did anyone notice some weird smell when they removed the block after a few weeks ? and it also leaves a stain....

[cdawall]

Originally Posted by DOM

did anyone notice some weird smell when they removed the block after a few weeks ? and it also leaves a stain....

I did and it also left a stain on mine.

[Random Murderer]

Originally Posted by DOM

did anyone notice some weird smell when they removed the block after a few weeks ? and it also leaves a stain....

Originally Posted by cdawall

I did and it also left a stain on mine.

Seem like a chemical reaction of some sort? I haven't pulled my heatsink yet, so I can't confirm.

[Random Murderer]

Pulled the old Xiggy off to replace it with an H100i. I can confirm that it left an odd smell(almost like fish attractant, that stuff you spray on your lures... it doesn't work, btw) and a very persistent stain. It also seems to be a bit abrasive, as I can no longer read the writing on my chip.

IC Diamond, any explanation of what might be going on here?

[AthlonX2]

Had similar results as you random as did sneeky. I would contribute it to the simulated diamond or whatever they use in the thermal paste,as its obviously abrasive.I actually remember cadaveca saying something about the IC diamond f%cking up some of his gpu cores because if its abrasive properties.

I do know that I will never use it again.

[Random Murderer]

Originally Posted by AthlonX2

Had similar results as you random as did sneeky. I would contribute it to the simulated diamond or whatever they use in the thermal paste,as its obviously abrasive.I actually remember cadaveca saying something about the IC diamond f%cking up some of his gpu cores because if its abrasive properties.

I do know that I will never use it again.

On a CPU with a lid, I don't see a problem, but a delidded CPU or a GPU core is definitely out of the question. Good thing I still have some MX-2 and AS5 lying around.

[Arctucas]

Originally Posted by stinger608

I will contact Andrew regarding this Arctucas. Thanks for the reminder man.

Any word?

[Arctucas]

@DOM, cdawall, Random Murderer,

Thanks for the confirmation of staining, which I had previously mentioned (Post #57 of this thread). At least I am not the only one.

[t_ski]

Mine stained, too, but I didn't have it on that long.

[TRWOV]

mmm... I think IC needs to offer an user guide or something... I removed my heatsink and found this:





Maybe it doesn't like cooper-cooper mounts?

[AthlonX2]

Diamond is one of the hardest substances on earth while copper is a soft metal...Not surprising this happened.

[SonDa5]

Originally Posted by TRWOV

mmm... I think IC needs to offer an user guide or something... I removed my heatsink and found this:


Maybe it doesn't like cooper-cooper mounts?

That looks almost identical to some damage I had on a water block and gpu die.

Photos from the problem that I had that I think was created by some chunky diamond crystals were in my IC Diamond.



Pit in block


Mark on die with some micro scratches.


I am 99% convinced that some of these tubes of IC Diamond have large chunks of diamond crap that does this.


I have figure out a way to apply IC Diamond and not have to use high pressure. a little smudge of it with rubbing alcohol smoothed o ut over die.. .Super thin. I think doing it like this helps ensure no diamond nuggets are present.

[TRWOV]

Heck, they even have the same shape. Weird.

I understand the pit but the scratches? It's not like I'm grinding the heatsink against the CPU or anything.

[AphexDreamer]

When you push the heat sink on the dot of IC Diamond it spreads. That is one source of movement. Another source might be from the liquid getting hot. Atoms move around faster when they are heated, but I don't know if that would be enough to cause micro scratches like that. They even recommend to do that for proper application and mention a break in period which occurs afters the liquid gets heated up so it can spread better.

I am slightly worried. I'm still using the IC Diamond and haven't bothered to check if any damage has been done to my heat sink or CPU. Performance has remained roughly the same so haven't had a reason to check until reading the above posts. Aside from the scratches which could be sanded out that dent is pretty large :/

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by SonDa5

That looks almost identical to some damage I had on a water block and gpu die.

Photos from the problem that I had that I think was created by some chunky diamond crystals were in my IC Diamond.



Pit in block
http://minidriven.com/BlacknBlueforI...Pitproblem.jpg

Mark on die with some micro scratches.
http://minidriven.com/BlacknBlueforI.../markondie.jpg

I am 99% convinced that some of these tubes of IC Diamond have large chunks of diamond crap that does this.


I have figure out a way to apply IC Diamond and not have to use high pressure. a little smudge of it with rubbing alcohol smoothed o ut over die.. .Super thin. I think doing it like this helps ensure no diamond nuggets are present.

Sorry for the long pause here we have been distracted with the commercial end of the business

The diamond we buy for our compound is purchased from one of the largest diamond suppliers in the country, the same sources and sizes that are used for optical lapping.

The diamond we buy is commonly referred to in the biz as a flour.Here are some pictures posted as IC Diamond scratches magnified 250% it is no big deal to analyze "scratches" which can only be made a certain width/depth by an established particle size, the fact that they represent a particle size 10X+ times the diamond component in our compound should be noted. Any suggested idea particles are larger than this shows a lack of understanding of the screening process as you will not find 1200 grit sandpaper peppered/contaminated with 150 grit sized particles and especially in mission critical optical components like lasers you will not see errantly large particles. We purchase only the highest quality and pay through the nose for it.

To draw a contrast for you I am privy to a competitors processing technique in which the paste is mixed in paint mixers, in a block building, with unfiltered air.

We are not Yahoos or hillbilly's, we contract our mixing and the people that do it, do it in a sterile air filtered environment on million dollar machines that heat the compound and mix it in a vacuum to prevent any air being folded into the compound. In addition prior to mixing our contract manufacturer performs QC testing to validate materials received meet specified material requirements.

The containers we receive from our contract mixer are unopened and tubes are filled directly from the sealed container through the syringe tip. Our processing and quality control are state of the art.

We do pay attention and we do collect reports of supposed scratching and they are analyzed and found with out merit.

When researching a problem you look for a commonality between samples.

Below sample was recently circulated and claimed the belt sanded look was due to the sink sitting stationary on the IHS and that he was excruciating careful cleaning off the compound. Happens to be a different grit size/finish, varying grit sizes? Note the white lettering overlaying scratches. I honestly do not know the question to this - does Intel do white ink print ID on nickel plated IHS's?





So here is a third one with a North South orientation, this "clear" picture has the addition of a circular scratch finish - This was noted as a lapped IHS. The circular marks are the same as the N/S in size which indicates it was done with the same abrasive medium, both 10X + any particle size in IC Diamond.

So a third with a another different finish - So where is the connection? it's not there.



The images below were final lap with IC Diamond, an intentional abrasion with ICD with no visible scratching, that's it, nada, none, nowhere to be seen, nonexistent, mort, deceased, no longer with us, the parrot is dead. The suggestion is ridiculous and as a point of fact if you applied Colgate toothpaste to that finish it would fog the mirror finish not because it is harder but the toothpaste particle size is larger and but still harder than copper to provide a scale of reference for the posted pictures.





Note I sent the pictures on this thread to our supplier and his response

"estimating the particle size particle necessary to produce that kind of damage as a rough estimate is 50 to 100 times larger than the largest size diamond our process can make"


The fact here is the particle size is on a scale as to be physically impossible to create and scaling the picture and measuring the mark it appears to be too large to even fit through the tip of the syringe and any damage is more likely due to contamination on the install.

[TRWOV]

Obviously the diamond wasn't that size when it was applied: it wouldn't fit trough and I didn't remove a chunk of diamond from that pit.

Nevertheless something happens with ICD involved, those pits couldn't form on their own. What we must find out is what kind of situation triggers that reaction.

I've always used isopropyl alcohol with a clean cloth to clean the IHS and then paper towels to dry and remove what the cloth couldn't. I finish with a microfiber cloth (same type used for glasses). I don't know what kind of contamination could produce a reaction like this.

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by AphexDreamer

When you push the heat sink on the dot of IC Diamond it spreads. That is one source of movement. Another source might be from the liquid getting hot. Atoms move around faster when they are heated, but I don't know if that would be enough to cause micro scratches like that. They even recommend to do that for proper application and mention a break in period which occurs afters the liquid gets heated up so it can spread better.

IC Diamond has an MOHS hardness of 10 Aluminum oxide MOHS of 9 Diamond is harder but only incrementally so

Aluminum oxide the preferred abrasive for etching glass and is used in AS5,Shin Etsu, Mx-4 etc. and would be causing wholesale slaughter of IHS serial numbers with an MOHS of 9 and similar particle sizes.

Nothing is going to move if your sink is tightened down properly, your describing physics that doesn't exist unless your sink is flapping in the breeze.

It is surprising to me that so few people do not understand the use of cleaners and solvents. I have watched countless videos of of people cleaning CPU's - they squirt on the cleaner and immediately begin wiping/rubbing vigorously with out giving the solvent enough time to loosen/dilute the grease. except for zinc oxide and LM all thermal grease are a rough equivalent to a 400 to 600 grit sandpaper which is made of aluminium oxide, what they make sandpaper out of.

Scuff marks on the IHS/CPU are most easily identifiable as a rough cleaning like with a fine grit sandpaper and a little solvent.

[IC Diamond]

Originally Posted by TRWOV

Obviously the diamond wasn't that size when it was applied: it wouldn't fit trough and I didn't remove a chunk of diamond from that pit.

Nevertheless something happens with ICD involved, those pits couldn't form on their own. What we must find out is what kind of situation triggers that reaction.

I've always used isopropyl alcohol with a clean cloth to clean the IHS and then paper towels to dry and remove what the cloth couldn't. I finish with a microfiber cloth (same type used for glasses). I don't know what kind of contamination could produce a reaction like this.

lol, some flies buzzing the thread

Note I sent the pictures on this thread to our supplier and his response

"estimating the particle size particle necessary to produce that kind of damage as a rough estimate is 50 to 100 times larger than the largest size diamond our process can make"


The fact here is the particle size is on a scale as to be physically impossible to create and scaling the picture and measuring the mark it appears to be too large to even fit through the tip of the syringe and any damage is more likely due to contamination on the install.

Like I said it is physically impossible on our end where we have control - Lack of any proof like a .1 carat diamond stone not found in your clean up there is nothing to find out.

Also note we sell a commercial version to OEM's with an acetate to thin it so that it can be silk screened on same compound samples you have, same batch just with the added acetate- approximately 100 kg a month and that is 2600 lbs of diamond give or take per year applied through a fine mesh screen and if diamond stones were turning up We would not be meeting spec and they would cease to be our customer and so no stones and they are still our customers.

[adulaamin]

Interesting... I might try to clean up my system on new years day to see if I have scratches or pits on mine...