Samsung, Apple... and YOU

[mandis]

Originally Posted by pantherx12

The Arm CPU was created by Acorn Computers.

An English company ... (Nothing to do with Apple is what I'm saying)

As far as I'm aware Apple have never produced their own processors, they've always been produced by other companies, sure they had some tweaked versions of CPUS but ultimately the designs were produced by others.

I hope this helps...

ARM architecture:

In the late 1980s Apple Computer and VLSI Technology started working with Acorn on newer versions of the ARM core. The work was so important that Acorn spun off the design team in 1990 into a new company called Advanced RISC Machines Ltd. Advanced RISC Machines became ARM Ltd when its parent company, ARM Holdings plc, floated on the London Stock Exchange and NASDAQ in 1998.[11]
The new Apple-ARM work would eventually turn into the ARM6, first released in early 1992. Apple used the ARM6-based ARM 610 as the basis for their Apple Newton PDA. In 1994, Acorn used the ARM 610 as the main central processing unit (CPU) in their Risc PC computers. DEC licensed the ARM6 architecture and produced the StrongARM. At 233 MHz this CPU drew only one watt (more recent versions draw far less). This work was later passed to Intel as a part of a lawsuit settlement, and Intel took the opportunity to supplement their ageing i960 line with the StrongARM. Intel later developed its own high performance implementation named XScale which it has since sold to Marvell.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture


ARM Holdings:

The company was founded as Advanced RISC Machines, ARM, a joint venture between Acorn Computers, Apple Computer (now Apple Inc.) and VLSI Technology. The new company intended to further the development of the Acorn RISC Machine's RISC chip, which was originally used in the Acorn Archimedes and had been selected by Apple for their Newton project. The design was flexible and is now the processing core for many custom application-specific integrated circuits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Holdings

[Frick]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Hey, look! The IBM Simon has "rounded and smooth" corners and buttons laid out in a square grid too. It came out in 1992:
http://www.trendingaddict.com/wp-con...imon_w5002.jpg

Compaq iPAQ H3100...if this doesn't look like Apple stole most of its design cues, I don't know what to tell you:
http://vlib.eitan.ac.il/pda/devices/.../ipaq3100d.jpg

There's also the HTC Wallaby that came out in 2002:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...TC_Wallaby.jpg


There was a whole generation of "smartphones" that existed before the iPhone called the "Pocket PC." Apple cloned them, made a few tweaks so it was palletable to Steve Jobs, then sold them as "the world's first smartphone" (inventing new words that mean nothing).

Apple doesn't invent anything. They outsource ideas to companies that do, patent the hell out of it, and sue anyone that tries to compete.

I have no idea what you're on about, as it doesn't relate to what I said. Of course there were smartphones before the iPhone, I've owned several Qtek phones that I loved (I'm one of the few persons on earth who liked Windows Mobile). The point is Samsung had tons of phones of various shapes and sizes. Then in 2010 some of them for some bizarre reason started to look like iPhones. Why did Apple choose Samsung? HTC have phones with rounded corners too, all phones have rounded corners, yet Samsung are the ones that look like iPhones.

[FordGT90Concept]

That is subjective. All "smartphones" look alike to me. They are functionally the same.

[the54thvoid]

Originally Posted by mandis

I hope this helps...

ARM architecture:

In the late 1980s Apple Computer and VLSI Technology started working with Acorn on newer versions of the ARM core. The work was so important that Acorn spun off the design team in 1990 into a new .......

In essence what you've quoted is in fact what everyone says about Apple and ironically what Samsung say Apple do. The ARM core already existed prior to Apple getting involved. It was a hugely important chip. ARM made it independently of Apple. Apple saw how good the original design was and like all good business ideas, worked with ARM and its spin off to develop it further to best suit it's own business interests. They didn't do anything wrong but what they did is what they sue everyone else for doing (simply because Apple use the patent office as a dead end to other companies improving upon their designs.

The above serves to illustrate exactly what Apple often do - they evolve prior function and/or design. They did not innovate.

[kid41212003]

Samsung deserves this.

I wish they ban the S3 and its "iButton" from existent.

All hail HTC!

[Frick]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

That is subjective. All "smartphones" look alike to me. They are functionally the same.

Honestly I don't know why you're in this thread if that is how you see things.

[mandis]

Originally Posted by the54thvoid

In essence what you've quoted is in fact what everyone says about Apple and ironically what Samsung say Apple do. The ARM core already existed prior to Apple getting involved. It was a hugely important chip. ARM made it independently of Apple. Apple saw how good the original design was and like all good business ideas, worked with ARM and its spin off to develop it further to best suit it's own business interests. They didn't do anything wrong but what they did is what they sue everyone else for doing (simply because Apple use the patent office as a dead end to other companies improving upon their designs.

The above serves to illustrate exactly what Apple often do - they evolve prior function and/or design. They did not innovate.

Spoken like a true Hater

The ARM6 (ARMv3/4) was as close to the original Acorn Archimedes as the 8086 is to the core i7 ivy bridge. The APPLE - ACORN partnership led to the creation of ARM. The company that designs the new post-ARMv3 CPUs.

Hopefully Samsung owns a licence to manufacture their ARM-based cpus or they could be facing even worse legal consequences...


ps: you really should read the links I sent you. No point in twisting the facts in order to back your argument. Do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Right now you seem like you hate a company based on a bunch of lies and misconceptions which are not even your own. All droid fanboys repeat the same foul nonsense.

[Benetanegia]

Originally Posted by mandis

The ARM6 (ARMv3/4) was as close to the original Acorn Archimedes as the 8086 is to the core i7 ivy bridge.[/B]

Same for current ARM CPUs, they have nothing to do with the ARM6. And in fact many of the tech in the ARM Cortex family has been developed in conjuntion with Samsung and many other companies and/or using their IP. Apple is not one of those from what I've seen.

ARM is not Apple.

[KainXS]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Samsung to fight court ruling in Apple patent dispute

that won't change anything, based on the current decisions so far samsung is only going downhill in this trial

good ol american(paytowin) justice

[the54thvoid]

Originally Posted by mandis

Spoken like a true Hater

These few words betray your sentiments and loyalties.

I like Apple products, they're pleasant to look at (the iPad is a bit slippy to hold mind) and function very well. Many Android products suck (but not my HTC One S).

Your vehemence towards my post is noted. Please accept my indifference.

My point stands. Apple got involved with ARM* because they liked what another company did. That much is true. They evolved a product someone else designed.

*The official Acorn RISC Machine project started in October 1983. The fundamental ARM core was pre-Apple. ARM holdings involved Apple.

[mandis]

Originally Posted by the54thvoid

These few words betray your sentiments and loyalties. Your vehemence towards my post is noted. Please accept my indifference.

So why did you bother to reply?? Please spare me the pedantry...

Originally Posted by the54thvoid

I like Apple products, they're pleasant to look at

Only a hater would say that...

Originally Posted by the54thvoid

My point stands. Apple got involved with ARM* because they liked what another company did. That much is true. They evolved a product someone else designed. The official Acorn RISC Machine project started in October 1983. The fundamental ARM core was pre-Apple. ARM holdings involved Apple.

Apple got involved with ACORN because they were interested in acquiring certain hardware patents related to the ARM architecture. They Bought the company together with VLSI and renamed ACORN to ARM inc. which stands for Advanced RISC Machines. The technology relevant to the Acorn computer is now known as ANCIENT ARM and it is unrelated and incomatible to what Apple and VLSI created after their joint partnership.

http://www.heyrick.co.uk/armwiki/The...ly#Ancient_ARM

PS.: Unlike you I actually try to reference my claims. You should try it too!

[pantherx12]

Originally Posted by mandis

Only a hater would say that...

To be fair, they are nice products to look at

Hell if it wasn't for not being able to piss around ( and the price) i'd probably have an Iphone ( I dislike all other Apple products though, since they changed to intel CPUs there's beeen no advantage to owning an actual Apple PC IMO)

Fortunately I got a Desire Z for £160 when they were still retailing for around £300 : ]

[Tartaros]

But Mandis, even what is said in those articles you posted stat what Pantherx12 said first, apple never produced a cpu architecture on it's own, the newer versions of arm processors were the fruit of a partnership between 3 companies.

I don't pretend to throw aside the importance of apple in the creation of these processors, but saying apple created the arm processor for the newton like you did is not true. It's like saying apple created all the cpus they used in their computers because they used them to make those computers xD

[micropage7]

Originally Posted by pantherx12

To be fair, they are nice products to look at

Hell if it wasn't for not being able to piss around ( and the price) i'd probably have an Iphone ( I dislike all other Apple products though, since they changed to intel CPUs there's beeen no advantage to owning an actual Apple PC IMO)

Fortunately I got a Desire Z for £160 when they were still retailing for around £300 : ]

yep their stuff is cool
but i cant stand their attitude too bad

[entropy13]

Jury in Apple v. Samsung Goofed, Damages Reduced

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...12082510525390

[the54thvoid]

Originally Posted by mandis

So why did you bother to reply?? Please spare me the pedantry...
Only a hater would say that...

I'm allowed to firmly disapprove of any frighteningly wealthy corporation with a distinctly over bearing marketing and legal wing. Your use of hater is the antithesis of that other word that starts with 'F'. Using these terms doesn't help.

Originally Posted by mandis

Apple got involved with ACORN because they were interested in acquiring certain hardware patents related to the ARM architecture.

Yes. Apple wanted another companies tech. I'm now quoting you. This is what I've been saying. And you've just confirmed that.

Which is what i said back here:

they evolve prior function and/or design. They did not innovate.

This is what I have been arguing. Apple got involved with someone elses design because they wanted it for their own device. Why are you even arguing - you've said it yourself? I appreciate you want to stick up for Apple here but really you're saying the same thing as me.

Acorn created ARM core of the back of the Berkeley project. Apple wanted to use that tech and needed the patent. Apple acquire a patent because they did not invent the initial core.
You also said:

They(Apple) Bought the company together with VLSI and renamed ACORN to ARM inc. which stands for Advanced RISC Machines.

which is not true. Your wiki source says this:

The work was so important that Acorn spun off the design team in 1990 into a new company called Advanced RISC Machines Ltd

If Acorn had not developed the ARM core, Apple wouldn't have got involved. And I'm well aware that core from Acorn was developed by using another researcher groups work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_RISC)

I think we can both agree on these facts above (as quoted by you and as by me quoting you).

And please, if you want to reply again to my post, I'd appreciate it if you stop using the term 'Hater'. Frankly i find it very insulting and if you're trying to insult me then that's just unpleasant.

And for the record, our family had an Acorn Electron back in the 1980's. It was awesome (at the time). Who knew blocks moving around other blocks could be so much fun? I even remember one game - The Tomb of Drewen.

[Frick]

Originally Posted by entropy13

Jury in Apple v. Samsung Goofed, Damages Reduced

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...12082510525390

As a result the damages award was reduced to $1,049,343,540, down from $1,051,855,000.

Woo they saved $1.4M!

[Sasqui]

Originally Posted by Frick

Woo they saved $1.4M!

Yea, 1% reduction.

I too about got sick to my stomache when I read the news. Been offline most of the weekend.

From the article entropy quoted

Originally Posted by entropy13

Jury in Apple v. Samsung Goofed, Damages Reduced

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...12082510525390

And reading other articles, this isn't over. There is so much money at stake that this will end up at the supreme court.

I wonder how many of these guys have an iPhone in thier pocket:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

[Frick]

Originally Posted by Sasqui

I wonder how many of these guys have an iPhone in thier pocket:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Given how many phones Samsung sell chances are good they have a Samsung phone.

[m1dg3t]

So Apple can claim rights to a rounded square & touch screens with tiles eh?

What about this:

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/sh...14&postcount=1

Oh thats right, i forgot! Apple can copy everyone else and it's OK! Pathetic.

Hey Sony why don't you go and fuck Apple for some cash like they do to everyone else? or are you waiting for them to implement it and make large $$$ first?

And for the jury of that/this trial, some good reading material http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/chapter-1

Only in US is corruption/greed celebrated

[Frick]

Originally Posted by m1dg3t

So Apple can claim rights to a rounded square & touch screens with tiles eh?

What about this:

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/sh...14&postcount=1

Oh thats right, i forgot! Apple can copy everyone else and it's OK! Pathetic.

Hey Sony why don't you go and fuck Apple for some cash like they do to everyone else? or are you waiting for them to implement it and make large $$$ first?

And for the jury of that/this trial, some good reading material http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/chapter-1

It was more than about the shape. But you don't care about that sort of thing I take it.

[HossHuge]

So the jury foreman is a patent holder?

Does that sound strange to anyone else?

[FordGT90Concept]

Sounds like he/she should have been recused. Samsung is appealing the decision so it will go to a higher court that is likely less biased in favor of Apple.

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by Sasqui

I have no doubt that Samsung has pointed that out!

Apple cobbled together existing technologies to form the majority of thier products, ergo the iPhone. I think that's another argument to make... it really wasn't anything new.

samsung should just release a firmware update for their high defs and block the apple TV ID.



i really hope samsung socks apple in the face.

and then I hope googles lawsuit moves in and hits them again. I want apple to have the lowest grossing quarter in the companies history. Everyone attacks opensource no one thinks they can hold their own.

shit open group should sue apple for using a unix derivative.

[Aquinus]

Originally Posted by Solaris17

and then I hope googles lawsuit moves in and hits them again. I want apple to have the lowest grossing quarter in the companies history. Everyone attacks opensource no one thinks they can hold their own.

Meanwhile, Google owned Motorola is attacking Apple. Apple has made its position very clear and how they're going to operate and at this point the only way to get Apple to play fair is to beat them into submission.