Why I'm now an Apple fan...

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by [XC] Oj101

I read your first post, nothing more. You went through FOUR iPads to get ONE working unit. You had a two hour wait? I think you made a mistake in the thread title, are you SURE you didn't mean to call it "Why I'm not an Apple fan..."? I mean the W and T on a keyboard are three keys apart, but you showed a lack of intelligence by not insisting on a refund half way through your fiasco so I wouldn't be surprised if you mixed up the keys (<-- that smilie means my last sentence was a joke)

It's curious why you felt the need to start off your post by stating you only read my first post and nothing more. I guess it's fine to ignore everything else that's been said so you can make an argument that's valid in your psychotic little fantasy world where the clock runs backwards. (<- that smile means my last sentence was a joke)

[[XC] Oj101]

I see no need to read through it, I couldn't really as I was dialing 911 after choking on the irony between the thread title and the opening post

[Frick]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Did you not read what I typed? Apple made a net profit of $8.2 billion in 2009, $14.0 billion in 2010, and $25.9 billion in 2011. As of Q2, 2012, Apple had $110.2 billion cash on hand. What do they do with it? Buy back shares and issue dividends to investors, also known as "make Wall Street happy."

The point I'm trying to make at is that, due to the cult following Apple has, they can charge non-competitive rates for products and still get astronomical sales. What that same cult has to realize is Apple is a corporation and, in no way, deserves to be put on some pedastal to be praised. Then they really need to reflect in on themselves and ask "is this product really worth the premium?" Obviously, a lot will say yes, but I insist they reevaluate the situation for the sake of capitalism and free market economics.

Other companies would be the same if they could. I've said it before in this thread, Apple is living the open market dream.

Originally Posted by [XC] Oj101

I read your first post, nothing more. You went through FOUR iPads to get ONE working unit. You had a two hour wait? I think you made a mistake in the thread title, are you SURE you didn't mean to call it "Why I'm not an Apple fan..."? I mean the W and T on a keyboard are three keys apart, but you showed a lack of intelligence by not insisting on a refund half way through your fiasco so I wouldn't be surprised if you mixed up the keys (<-- that smilie means my last sentence was a joke)

Get out out then as you don't want to contribute.

Originally Posted by HTC

That's pretty much what Apple counts on.

To be fair they could've done the same thing with pretty much anything.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Kreij

What you just described is the epitome of capitalism and free market economy.

Let me highlight the key phrase:

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

The point I'm trying to make at is that, due to the cult following Apple has, they can charge non-competitive rates for products and still get astronomical sales. What that same cult has to realize is Apple is a corporation and, in no way, deserves to be put on some pedastal to be praised. Then they really need to reflect in on themselves and ask "is this product really worth the premium?" Obviously, a lot will say yes, but I insist they reevaluate the situation for the sake of capitalism and free market economics.

Capitalism doesn't work when there's only one competitor. The profit margins Apple is getting suggests they are in a separate market with no competition. Where there is only one competitor, the market is as free as a communist economy (not free at all).

[Frick]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Capitalism doesn't work when there's only one competitor. The profit margins Apple is getting suggests they are in a separate market with no competition. Where is only one competitor, the market is as free as a communist economy (not free at all).

So why has Samsung sold all those phones? There is a lot of competition. And I don't know anything about other manufacturers profit margins, but at least here there are lots of phones that are more expensive than iPhones. The same goes for iPads, those devices are actually pretty good value when compared to similiar devices in the same price bracket (the way they should).

[FordGT90Concept]

Android is competing amongst Android, Windows Phone is competing amongst Windows Phone, and iOS is competing amongst iOS. Android has many manufacturers, Windows Phone has many manufacturers, and iOS has one manufacturer. Even Symbian had several manufacturers (Nokia, Samsung, and Sony) but they all (especially Nokia) voluntarily jumped ship to Windows Phone and/or Android.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Android is competing amongst Android, Windows Phone is competing amongst Windows Phone, and iOS is competing amongst iOS. Android has many manufacturers, Windows Phone has many manufacturers, and iOS has one manufacturer. Even Symbian had several manufacturers (Nokia, Samsung, and Sony) but they all (especially Nokia) voluntarily jumped ship to Windows Phone and/or Android.

I apologize on behalf of Apple for them not having been willing to release their in-house OS that revolutionized the MP3 and phone industry.

Sorry that Apple's competence pioneered propelled them onto the #1 spot in the industry. That shouldn't be how capitalism works, nope. When a company releases a product that satisfies consumers, they shouldn't be rewarded, nope. Lets blame all this on Apple and not the incompetence of other companies. Samsung is such a victim of the lawsuits, they should just stop selling parts to Apple. Oh wait, it's too lucrative and profitable a contract. I guess that's capitalism, right? No? Oh, I'll be darned, I never knew!

[erocker]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

When a company releases a product that satisfies consumers, they shouldn't be rewarded, nope.

Um.. They are. It's called money and/or profit.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by erocker

Um.. They are. It's called money and/or profit.

Not according to Ford.

[erocker]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

Not according to Ford.

I didn't get that from any of Ford's statements in any way.

[FordGT90Concept]

I think the bottom line is this: in large markets, operating systems should not be made by manufacturers. If you're going to make an OS, you need to get out of manufacturing. If you're going to manufacturer, you need to get out of the OS business. This goes for Microsoft and Zune/Surface, Google and their ownership of Motorola as welll as Chromebooks, and Apple and, well, all their appliances. It empowers them too much to force customers to use specific hardware with specific software barring competition.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by erocker

I didn't get that from any of Ford's statements in any way.

All this talk about Apple releasing products at non-competitive prices (which is bullshit since I can name 10 ultrabooks that have similar specs for similar or higher costs), and their "monopolistic" business tactics that stifle market progress that give them an unfair advantage over competition because of the legacy they've created for themselves through various aspects of their business operations is wrong? They don't have a right to prosper in this CAPITALIST economy because they've done things right and they took on the risks that other manufacturers did not, and only did so after those risks proved successful for Apple?

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

I think the bottom line is this: in large markets, operating systems should not be made by manufacturers. If you're going to make an OS, you need to get out of manufacturing. If you're going to manufacturer, you need to get out of the OS business. This goes for Microsoft and Zune/Surface, Google and their ownership of Motorola as welll as Chromebooks, and Apple and, well, all their appliances. It empowers them too much to force customers to use specific hardware with specific software barring competition.

I thought you valued capitalism, I guess you don't want a free market economy. Thanks for undermining your logic for hating Apple.

Edit: Waiting for the auto-merge feature!

[FordGT90Concept]

Nokia is proof that the competitive market has far more risk than the walled garden iOS products live in. Apple released an average product in the iPhone 5 and it still sells millions. When superior products can't compete at lower prices, that suggests something sinister is afoot.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Nokia is proof that the competitive market has far more risk than the walled garden iOS products live in.

Nokia has no brand recognition in the smartphone industry for the US. You can argue that the Lumia 710 or 900 are quality phones, but I haven't seen a single person use it, ever, and I live in NYC. They also turned net losses on their operations in 2011. I guess some companies are a little more rational in their cost-benefit assessments prior to undermining risks, the same quality that sets Apple apart from your parade of manufacturers who are being abused by Apple because Apple is a monopoly.

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Nokia is proof that the competitive market has far more risk than the walled garden iOS products live in. Apple released an average product in the iPhone 5 and it still sells millions. When superior products can't compete at lower prices, that suggests something sinister is afoot.

Building a bigger phone and adding an expansion slot is not black magic, anybody can do it. But I'm sure Apple you'll find a tangential between Apple's monopolistic values to their refusal to add certain features to their phones. And it'll all make sense to you! Perfect sense!!!

[INSTG8R]

Ford you do realize that Samsung actually has the lead in phones right now right? All your "chest beating" is for nothing. Samsung is winning.....

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

They also turned net losses on their operations in 2011.

They were selling their Lumia 900 for a loss...

Originally Posted by Kantastic

...the same quality that sets Apple apart from your parade of manufacturers who are being abused by Apple because Apple is a monopoly.

When's the last time you tried to hammer in a nail with your smartphone? Nokia's quality far exceeds Apple's.

[Fourstaff]

Originally Posted by erocker

You might be correct, but I think you're off base. Apple's "fanatic" customer base doesn't seem very nationalistic to me. Besides, what is wrong with nationalism? Have you no pride in where you live?

No, I am talking about how nationalistic people should buy Apple instead of Android rather than Apple fanatics being nationalistic.

Nationalism is too dangerous for me to handle. The entire Orient is currently a dynamite stick waiting for the stray spark. Every single country has been pitted against each other, and the US is trying to make it their business (making it even harder to solve).

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Capitalism doesn't work when there's only one competitor. The profit margins Apple is getting suggests they are in a separate market with no competition. Where there is only one competitor, the market is as free as a communist economy (not free at all).

What is the primary market Apple is in? Computers, smartphones, music players. You get to choose from many different computer makers (Dell, HP etc), many different smartphone makers (Samsung, Sharp, LG, HTC, etc) and many different music player makers (Creative, Cowon, Sandisk, etc). How is that monopolistic? iOS? I don't see anything wrong with iOS the same way as I don't see anything wrong with BlackBerry tying the hardware and software in one package, along with TomTom, Nokia (with Symbian) and the OS that came with the hardware in your local power station.

Originally Posted by Kantastic

I thought you valued capitalism, I guess you don't want a free market economy.

People only support capitalism when it works to their favour, you see. For example, China is being a bastard by lowering their exchange rate. That is capitalism at its finest: I can afford to produce things at a much lower price than you by the method I choose (which may include but not limited to: piss poor wages, deflated exchange rate, bribery).

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Nokia is proof that the competitive market has far more risk than the walled garden iOS products live in. Apple released an average product in the iPhone 5 and it still sells millions. When superior products can't compete at lower prices, that suggests something sinister is afoot.

Yes, its called crowd mentality and also stupidity. You should be very familiar with the tulip mania. This is no different

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by INSTG8R

Ford you do realize that Samsung actually has the lead in phones right now right? All your "chest beating" is for nothing. Samsung is winning.....

Samsung is only winning because Apple is a big, bad monopoly.

Disclaimer: The above statement has no factual basis nor theoretical and/or hypothetical supporting arguments. It is only logical to a select few individuals in this thread.

Originally Posted by Fourstaff

People only support capitalism when it works to their favour, you see. For example, China is being a bastard by lowering their exchange rate. That is capitalism at its finest: I can afford to produce things at a much lower price than you by the method I choose (which may include but not limited to: piss poor wages, deflated exchange rate, bribery).

How dare you? Apple is the only company that is anti-capitalist!!!! THE ONLY ONE!!!!

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by INSTG8R

Ford you do realize that Samsung actually has the lead in phones right now right? All your "chest beating" is for nothing. Samsung is winning.....

Because they sell many phones in Windows Phone and Android markets. They even sell lots of cheapy phones with custom operating systems--not just smart phones. Apple also sued Samsung, and won, not long after Samsung took the lead...

[MxPhenom 216]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

All this talk about Apple releasing products at non-competitive prices (which is bullshit since I can name 10 ultrabooks that have similar specs for similar or higher costs), and their "monopolistic" business tactics that stifle market progress that give them an unfair advantage over competition because of the legacy they've created for themselves through various aspects of their business operations is wrong? They don't have a right to prosper in this CAPITALIST economy because they've done things right and they took on the risks that other manufacturers did not, and only did so after those risks proved successful for Apple?

They are just doing what microsoft did in the 1990s. Apple has caught on to it and they are doing it. Apple just want a monopoly on their end. Period.

Originally Posted by Kantastic

Nokia has no brand recognition in the smartphone industry for the US. You can argue that the Lumia 710 or 900 are quality phones, but I haven't seen a single person use it, ever, and I live in NYC. They also turned net losses on their operations in 2011. I guess some companies are a little more rational in their cost-benefit assessments prior to undermining risks, the same quality that sets Apple apart from your parade of manufacturers who are being abused by Apple because Apple is a monopoly.



Building a bigger phone and adding an expansion slot is not black magic, anybody can do it. But I'm sure Apple you'll find a tangential between Apple's monopolistic values to their refusal to add certain features to their phones. And it'll all make sense to you! Perfect sense!!!

Thats why you haven't seen the Nokias, because everyone is so hip and sleek they need the iphone to match their ways.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Because they sell many phones in Windows Phone and Android markets. They even sell lots of cheapy phones with custom operating systems--not just smart phones. Apple also sued Samsung, and won, not long after Samsung took the lead...

So tell Samsung to stop selling parts to Apple. Oh wait, Samsung can't because THE CONTRACT IS TOO LUCRATIVE. At least some companies value capitalism; too bad some diehard fanboys don't and go on rampages bashing competition for being more successful.

Originally Posted by MxPhenom 216

They are just doing what microsoft did in the 1990s. Apple has caught on to it and they are doing it. Apple just want a monopoly on their end. Period.



Thats why you haven't seen the Nokias, because everyone is so hip and sleek they need the iphone to match their ways.

You've never been to NYC have you? Are you also the kind of person who thinks Hawaiians surf to school every morning? Or all Asians are good at math? All Indians good at IT? All Africans good at sports?

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

They were selling their Lumia 900 for a loss...



Whe's the last time you tried to hammer in a nail with your smartphone? Nokia's quality far exceeds Apple's.

When was the last time you accidentally hammered a nail with your smartphone? Oh right, never. WAIT A MOMENT!! GASP!!! SELLING NOKIA LUMIAS AT A LOST?!!??!?! Pretty sure that right there is anti-capitalistic (for reasons you know and deny), but you seem to be perfectly okay with that. I guess you're always right huh?

[MxPhenom 216]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

So tell Samsung to stop selling parts to Apple. Oh wait, Samsung can't because THE CONTRACT IS TOO LUCRATIVE. At least some companies value capitalism; too bad some diehard fanboys don't and go on rampages bashing competition for being more successful.




You've never been to NYC have you? Are you also the kind of person who thinks Hawaiians surf to school every morning? Or all Asians are good at math? All Indians good at IT? All Africans good at sports?

If i lived in Hawaii id surf to school. No need for a car, and paying gas prices.

But seriously, Samsung could stop selling parts to Apple if they really wanted too. They would lose a bit of money, but end result would be Apple would basically be screwed until they find someone who can make their parts again. If Samsung had balls they would stop giving apple parts.

[erocker]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

You've never been to NYC have you? Are you also the kind of person who thinks Hawaiians surf to school every morning? Or all Asians are good at math? All Indians good at IT? All Africans good at sports?

Going a bit off topic are we? This has nothing to do with the topic, please get off your high-horse and quit the flamebaiting.

thanks

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by erocker

Going a bit off topic are we? This has nothing to do with the topic, please get off your high-horse and quit the flamebaiting.

thanks

High horse? Explain to me what high horse I'm on. This thread has been a flame-bait since page 2, I'm just joining the party. And I'm sure Mx isn't flame-baiting when he stereotypes and generalizes an entire population. Nope, nopenopenope.