[Speculation] How much faster will the 4770k be than the 3770k?

BloodTotal · Jan 1, 2013, 08:42 PM

I hope it will be at least 30% faster.

Jstn7477 · Jan 1, 2013, 08:48 PM

Probably only about 10% or less. The graphics section may be a lot better though.

Bo$$ · Jan 1, 2013, 09:01 PM

No more than 25% although 15% would seem likely clock for clock. They haven't really announced new features so it's hard to measure the level

RCoon · Jan 1, 2013, 09:39 PM

I thought haswell was like piledriver, essentially the same as previous gen, just refined a bit. I wouldnt think it would be much more powerful at all, they seem to be going for improved power consumptions and IGP over anything else. clock of clock i can see it being a few percent better, but the real changes are in the graphics and power area.

Jack1n · Jan 1, 2013, 09:43 PM

I also hope they wont make the same mistake with the IHS like they did for Ivy,as for the Size margin of the Cores on the die,it could even decrease further.

Aquinus · Jan 1, 2013, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCoon

the real changes are in the graphics and power area.

This. I think that the CPU itself might be 5-10% faster clock for clock but no more. The big highlights of Haswell are the changes to the graphic subsystem and VRM control. We might see higher clocks with Haswell without using more power though because I suspect the VRM changes should result in more consistent power distribution which should help stability at any given voltage.

All in all, I think it will run a tiny bit faster using less power for the cores. The only thing Intel is really lacking on is the iGPU performance and even that has been getting better.

Edit: Ah, I forgot that Haswell might sport a flexible bclk like my 3820 has on skt2011. That would be nice for more finely adjusting the memory speed and overclocking non-k edition CPUs. A big plus in my book if that's true, because then the i3 can overclock again assuming the i3 won't be strictly BGA.

MxPhenom 216 · Jan 1, 2013, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack1n

I also hope they wont make the same mistake with the IHS like they did for Ivy,as for the Size margin of the Cores on the die,it could even decrease further.

It wasn't really a mistake. Ivy Bridge runs pletty cool if you have the resources to do so.

OneMoar · Jan 1, 2013, 09:54 PM

10% maby 15% in certain area's

Caspase · Jan 1, 2013, 10:03 PM

Well, that depends... If it is going to be marketed by Apple, then 2,6X faster than 3770k (the only test being BF3, medium settings). For real, I expect no more than 10% increase, no less than 5%, and much better extreme OC than ivy.

Jack1n · Jan 1, 2013, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MxPhenom 216

It wasn't really a mistake. Ivy Bridge runs pletty cool if you have the resources to do so.

Well if you look at it from Intel's prospective its not a mistake,they saved on money while still making sales,if you take a general look at ivy bridge then you will see that it is far from being a failure,but that particular move was a mistake,i bought my ivy bridge knowing that and i dont regret it,but i wish that they would solder it.

LAN_deRf_HA · Jan 1, 2013, 10:40 PM

I suppose if they're going to delay it we'd have time to do a petition asking for solder specifically on "K" Haswell chips.

T4C Fantasy · Jan 1, 2013, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo$$

No more than 25% although 15% would seem likely clock for clock. They haven't really announced new features so it's hard to measure the level

Confirmed new features
Haswell New Instructions (includes Advanced Vector Extensions 2 (AVX2), gather, bit manipulation, and FMA3 support).

New sockets — LGA 1150 for desktops and rPGA947 & BGA1364 for the mobile market.

Intel Transactional Synchronization Extensions (TSX)
Graphics support in hardware for Direct3D 11.1 and OpenGL 4.0

DDR4 for the enterprise/server variant (Haswell-EX)

Variable Base clock (BClk) like LGA 2011.

Supervisor mode access prevention (SMAP)

Expected features
Shrink PCH from 65 nm to 32 nm.
A new cache design.
Up to 32MB Unified cache LLC (Last Level Cache).
Support for Thunderbolt technology.
There will be three versions of the integrated GPU: GT1, GT2, and GT3. According to vr-zone, the fastest version (GT3) will have 20 execution units (EU).Another source, SemiAccurate, however says that the GT3 will have 40 EUs with an accompanying 64MB cache on an interposer. An additional source, AnandTech, agrees that GT3 will have 40 EUs, and states there will be a version with up to 128MB of embedded DRAM, but makes no mention of an interposer. Haswell's predecessor, Ivy Bridge, has a maximum of 16 EUs.
New advanced power-saving system.
Fully integrated voltage regulator, thereby moving a component from the motherboard onto the CPU.
37, 47, 57W thermal design power (TDP) mobile processors.
35, 45, 65, 84, and ~100W+ (high-end, Haswell-E) TDP desktop processors.
10W TDP processors for the Ultrabook platform (multi-chip package like Westmere) leading to reduced heat which results in thinner as well as lighter Ultrabooks, but performance level will be lower than the 17W version.

Frag Maniac · Jan 2, 2013, 12:21 AM

It's looking more and more like Haswell will mostly benefit those whom are looking for an affordable laptop that will play all but the most demanding games.

MadMan007 · Jan 2, 2013, 12:31 AM

Yup, 10-15% per clock in general which is the normal increase for architectures that don't include very big changes. (IMC was a big change for example.) If clocks go up some too that could make the real increase greater. This is for programs without any special compiling, if there is anything that has AVX or AVX2 or TSX (drool) then the increases could be huge. I expect the processor will continue to get better over time as more programs implement these instructions.

Aquinus · Jan 2, 2013, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T4C Fantasy

Confirmed new features
Haswell New Instructions (includes Advanced Vector Extensions 2 (AVX2), gather, bit manipulation, and FMA3 support).

New sockets — LGA 1150 for desktops and rPGA947 & BGA1364 for the mobile market.

Intel Transactional Synchronization Extensions (TSX)
Graphics support in hardware for Direct3D 11.1 and OpenGL 4.0

DDR4 for the enterprise/server variant (Haswell-EX)

Variable Base clock (BClk) like LGA 2011.

Supervisor mode access prevention (SMAP)

Expected features
Shrink PCH from 65 nm to 32 nm.
A new cache design.
Up to 32MB Unified cache LLC (Last Level Cache).
Support for Thunderbolt technology.
There will be three versions of the integrated GPU: GT1, GT2, and GT3. According to vr-zone, the fastest version (GT3) will have 20 execution units (EU).Another source, SemiAccurate, however says that the GT3 will have 40 EUs with an accompanying 64MB cache on an interposer. An additional source, AnandTech, agrees that GT3 will have 40 EUs, and states there will be a version with up to 128MB of embedded DRAM, but makes no mention of an interposer. Haswell's predecessor, Ivy Bridge, has a maximum of 16 EUs.
New advanced power-saving system.
Fully integrated voltage regulator, thereby moving a component from the motherboard onto the CPU.
37, 47, 57W thermal design power (TDP) mobile processors.
35, 45, 65, 84, and ~100W+ (high-end, Haswell-E) TDP desktop processors.
10W TDP processors for the Ultrabook platform (multi-chip package like Westmere) leading to reduced heat which results in thinner as well as lighter Ultrabooks, but performance level will be lower than the 17W version.

You didn't have to copy that out of Wikipedia.

At least say where you got it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_(microarchitecture)

Crap Daddy · Jan 2, 2013, 10:23 AM

Intel made a presentation of Haswell many months ago. Here's a good read about it.
It doesn't say though how much faster it's gonna be...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/i...l-architecture

lilhasselhoffer · Jan 2, 2013, 12:41 PM

Let's see.

Same manufacturing technology.
Same transistor structure.

Unknown if solder or paste will be used.
Unknown how much of an improvement in VRM there will be.
Statements from Intel confirming that the new iGPU might actually compete with an APU.
Lower TDPs confirmed.

I see minimal differentiation (10-15% cycle-per-cycle at most) for the CPU. The GPU component is where Intel is focusing development. For that, a more moderate (20-30% minimum, but a host of newer features) improvement seems likely. The inclusion of new instruction sets is interesting, but any gains there are well outside of comment.

Of course, this is all based around Intel putting real effort forward with their processors. They are already tooled up to switch focus to mobile computing, and a company as big as Intel doesn't make that leap without forcing some market segments to wither...

qubit · Jan 2, 2013, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MxPhenom 216

It wasn't really a mistake. Ivy Bridge runs pletty cool if you have the resources to do so.

Intel didn't care about enthusiasts when they put that inferior heatspreader on it, that's the bottom line. IB would have made a nice point upgrade to SB otherwise.

Perhaps it was the beancounters forcing the engineers to put this in? We'll probably never know.

TheMailMan78 · Jan 2, 2013, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCoon

I thought haswell was like piledriver, essentially the same as previous gen, just refined a bit. I wouldnt think it would be much more powerful at all, they seem to be going for improved power consumptions and IGP over anything else. clock of clock i can see it being a few percent better, but the real changes are in the graphics and power area.

Pretty much. I don't suspect there will be any reason to upgrade my 2600K in the next year or so.

Also the new consoles coming out are gonna be a bucket of fail also so PC users are safe for YEARS to come with gaming.

drdeathx · Jan 2, 2013, 01:24 PM

IvyBridge was 5% on average faster per clock than SandyBridge..... There is no telling till it is released but I would say 10% or so.

btarunr · Jan 2, 2013, 01:35 PM

Graphics is anywhere between 200~300% faster, processing is 10~15%.

Source: my magic arse.

jboydgolfer · Jan 2, 2013, 01:43 PM

I DO have a question in this area for any of you who are knowledgeable in this field. I built a gaming PC for My basement, it consists of an i5 2500k, a WD HDD, a Samsung HDD, Plenty on RaM, and a good GPU,Do You think I should upgrade in the next year??
Or do You think this build will hold up for a while?
I DO realize an SSD would be a good step, and that IS coming, but as far as the CPU goes, How long do You think I'm good for?
BF3/Crysis2/FarCry3 etc......

TheMailMan78 · Jan 2, 2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btarunr

Graphics is anywhere between 200~300% faster, processing is 10~15%.

Source: my magic arse.

And you sir are the Para Brahman of BS.

Frick · Jan 2, 2013, 01:47 PM

One million percent

qubit · Jan 2, 2013, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jboydgolfer

I DO have a question in this area for any of you who are knowledgeable in this field. I built a gaming PC for My basement, it consists of an i5 2500k, a WD HDD, a Samsung HDD, Plenty on RaM, and a good GPU,Do You think I should upgrade in the next year??
Or do You think this build will hold up for a while?
I DO realize an SSD would be a good step, and that IS coming, but as far as the CPU goes, How long do You think I'm good for?
BF3/Crysis2/FarCry3 etc......

This question would be better asked in your own thread and with the exact specs of your system, especially the graphics card.

Jan 1, 2013, 08:42 PM	#1
BloodTotal Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Canadia Posts: 670 (0.34/day) Thanks: 556 Thanked 49 Times in 48 Posts System Specs	[Speculation] How much faster will the 4770k be than the 3770k? I hope it will be at least 30% faster. Last edited by BloodTotal; Jan 1, 2013 at 08:50 PM.

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Jan 1, 2013, 08:48 PM	#2
Jstn7477 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA Posts: 3,140 (2.30/day) Thanks: 388 Thanked 1,193 Times in 805 Posts System Specs	Probably only about 10% or less. The graphics section may be a lot better though. __________________ Intel Crunchers (27 threads): 2x 3770K 4.3G (14t), 2600K 4G (7t), X3210 (3t), P-M 735A, P4 HT 3G AMD Crunchers (11 cores):1100T 3.6G (3t), 1045T 3.4G (2t), X3 8550 2.5G, X2 4200+, T64 ML-37 AMD Folders (6272 GCN cores): 2x 7950 1125/1475, 7970 1150/1650, 7770 1100/1200 NV Folders (2336 GF10x + 1344 GK104 cores):GTX 470 & 465 720/1715, 4x 460 768MB 825/2000, GTS 450, 660Ti 1228/6000 HEATWARE

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Jan 1, 2013, 09:01 PM	#3
Bo$$ Join Date: May 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,670 (2.48/day) Thanks: 444 Thanked 770 Times in 679 Posts System Specs	No more than 25% although 15% would seem likely clock for clock. They haven't really announced new features so it's hard to measure the level __________________ Live in the UK? Join the UK TPU Group! Caution! This is Sparta! Im Looking For... Im Selling

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Jan 1, 2013, 09:39 PM	#4
RCoon Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Grantham, Lincolnshire, UK Posts: 1,255 (3.14/day) Thanks: 116 Thanked 426 Times in 304 Posts System Specs	I thought haswell was like piledriver, essentially the same as previous gen, just refined a bit. I wouldnt think it would be much more powerful at all, they seem to be going for improved power consumptions and IGP over anything else. clock of clock i can see it being a few percent better, but the real changes are in the graphics and power area. __________________ "So many times I wanted to move about (make poop but can't leave the game because it's online)" - Underworld

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Jan 1, 2013, 09:43 PM	#5
Jack1n Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Israel Posts: 619 (2.71/day) Thanks: 32 Thanked 128 Times in 121 Posts System Specs	I also hope they wont make the same mistake with the IHS like they did for Ivy,as for the Size margin of the Cores on the die,it could even decrease further. __________________

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Jan 1, 2013, 09:54 PM	#8
OneMoar Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,278 (2.00/day) Thanks: 89 Thanked 428 Times in 367 Posts System Specs	10% maby 15% in certain area's __________________ I am not here to be nice, I am not here to be polite BUT I am here to help ...

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Jan 1, 2013, 10:03 PM	#9
Caspase Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Portugal Posts: 114 (0.59/day) Thanks: 49 Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts System Specs	Well, that depends... If it is going to be marketed by Apple, then 2,6X faster than 3770k (the only test being BF3, medium settings). For real, I expect no more than 10% increase, no less than 5%, and much better extreme OC than ivy.

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Jan 1, 2013, 10:40 PM	#11
LAN_deRf_HA Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,024 (2.14/day) Thanks: 290 Thanked 831 Times in 588 Posts System Specs	I suppose if they're going to delay it we'd have time to do a petition asking for solder specifically on "K" Haswell chips.

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Jan 2, 2013, 12:21 AM	#13
Frag Maniac Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,435 (1.55/day) Thanks: 10 Thanked 243 Times in 210 Posts System Specs	It's looking more and more like Haswell will mostly benefit those whom are looking for an affordable laptop that will play all but the most demanding games.

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Jan 2, 2013, 12:31 AM	#14
MadMan007 Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 106 (0.07/day) Thanks: 5 Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts	Yup, 10-15% per clock in general which is the normal increase for architectures that don't include very big changes. (IMC was a big change for example.) If clocks go up some too that could make the real increase greater. This is for programs without any special compiling, if there is anything that has AVX or AVX2 or TSX (drool) then the increases could be huge. I expect the processor will continue to get better over time as more programs implement these instructions.

Jan 2, 2013, 10:23 AM	#16
Crap Daddy Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,292 (2.44/day) Thanks: 951 Thanked 963 Times in 671 Posts System Specs	Intel made a presentation of Haswell many months ago. Here's a good read about it. It doesn't say though how much faster it's gonna be... http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/i...l-architecture

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Software:	Windows 7/Windows 8 Pro

Jan 2, 2013, 12:41 PM	#17
lilhasselhoffer Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 1,160 (1.48/day) Thanks: 107 Thanked 661 Times in 385 Posts System Specs	Let's see. Same manufacturing technology. Same transistor structure. Unknown if solder or paste will be used. Unknown how much of an improvement in VRM there will be. Statements from Intel confirming that the new iGPU might actually compete with an APU. Lower TDPs confirmed. I see minimal differentiation (10-15% cycle-per-cycle at most) for the CPU. The GPU component is where Intel is focusing development. For that, a more moderate (20-30% minimum, but a host of newer features) improvement seems likely. The inclusion of new instruction sets is interesting, but any gains there are well outside of comment. Of course, this is all based around Intel putting real effort forward with their processors. They are already tooled up to switch focus to mobile computing, and a company as big as Intel doesn't make that leap without forcing some market segments to wither... __________________ You haven't seen anything until you've seen this. pokes computer Wow! I didn't know the blue screen of death could get a blue screen of death.

Processor:	i7 3930k
Motherboard:	Gigabyte GA-X79-UD5
Cooling:	H100
Memory:	32 GB DDR3 1600
Video Card:	XFX 6950 (shader unlocked)
Hard Disk:	Too many
Optical Drive:	BD burner, DVD burner
CRT/LCD Model:	Use a TV
Case:	NZXT Phantom
Sound Card:	Onboard
PSU:	1000 watt

System Name:	Quantumville™
Processor:	Intel Core i7-2700K at 4.7GHz (hits 5 gees+ easily)
Motherboard:	Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling:	Noctua NH-D14
Memory:	16GB (4 x 4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card:	EVGA GTX 590 Classified
Hard Disk:	WD Caviar Black 640GB / WD Caviar Green 2TB x2 in mobo RAID 1
Optical Drive:	Whatever DVD drive I've chucked in there right now
CRT/LCD Model:	Asus VG278HE (144Hz, 3D Vision 2, 1080p, 27") & LG W2363D (120Hz 1080p 23")
Case:	Coolermaster HAF 922
Sound Card:	SoundBlaster X-Fi ExtremeMusic (You ever heard one of these? Wow!)
PSU:	Corsair HX850W
Software:	Window 7 Ultimate 64-bit
Benchmarks:	Yes

System Name:	The Mailbox 3.5
Processor:	Intel i7 2600k @ 3.8GHz
Motherboard:	ASUS Maximus IV Gene-Z
Cooling:	Stock
Memory:	G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB DDR3 1866: 9-9-9-24
Video Card:	EVGA GTX670 "FTW" Edition @ 1006MHz
Hard Disk:	256gb M4 SSD, 500Gb WD (7200)
Optical Drive:	LG - 24x Double-Layer DVD±RW/CD-RW Drive
CRT/LCD Model:	24" ASUS 1920 x 1080
Case:	Cooler Master 922 HAF
Sound Card:	SupremeFX X-Fi 2 with Bose Companion 2 speakers.
PSU:	SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold
Software:	Windows 8 Pro w/Media Center 64bit
Benchmarks:	Benching is for bitches.

Jan 2, 2013, 01:24 PM	#20
drdeathx Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chicago burbs Posts: 1,516 (1.03/day) Thanks: 39 Thanked 335 Times in 275 Posts System Specs	IvyBridge was 5% on average faster per clock than SandyBridge..... There is no telling till it is released but I would say 10% or so.

System Name:	Halloween Boo!
Processor:	Intel Core i7 3770K
Motherboard:	Gigabyte Z77-Up7
Cooling:	Custom Water/ Thermalchill TA 120.3/ Swiftech Apogeee XT/ MCP655/ Swiftech M icrores/ XSPC RX 240
Memory:	16G G.Skill trident 2400MHz
Video Card:	3 x Radeon 7970
Hard Disk:	OCZ Revo Drive 240G
Optical Drive:	Asus
CRT/LCD Model:	24 inch Viewsonic
Case:	Phobia WayCoolIt Test Bench
PSU:	Nexus 1100 watt

Jan 2, 2013, 01:35 PM	#21
btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 14,983 (7.29/day) Thanks: 788 Thanked 12,911 Times in 5,655 Posts System Specs	Graphics is anywhere between 200~300% faster, processing is 10~15%. Source: my magic arse. __________________ Gadgets, Phones, Tablets, Cameras, TVs, HiFi...NextPowerUp

System Name:	Blackbox
Processor:	Intel Core i7-950
Motherboard:	Intel Extreme Series DX58OG
Cooling:	Xigmatek Aegir SD128264 with IC Diamond 24 Thermal Compound
Memory:	12GB ADATA Premier (3x 4GB) DDR3-1333 MHz
Video Card:	Palit GeForce GTX 680 JetStream 2GB outfitted with IC Diamond 24 TIM
Hard Disk:	Samsung 840 Series 250GB, Random 8 TB storage
Optical Drive:	HT-LG DVD-RW
CRT/LCD Model:	ViewSonic VX2450wm-LED
Case:	Cooler Master CM690 Window
Sound Card:	Creative SB Recon3D
PSU:	Corsair HX850W
Software:	Windows 8 Pro 64-bit

Jan 2, 2013, 01:43 PM	#22
jboydgolfer Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: ma Posts: 344 (1.57/day) Thanks: 55 Thanked 41 Times in 36 Posts System Specs	I DO have a question in this area for any of you who are knowledgeable in this field. I built a gaming PC for My basement, it consists of an i5 2500k, a WD HDD, a Samsung HDD, Plenty on RaM, and a good GPU,Do You think I should upgrade in the next year?? Or do You think this build will hold up for a while? I DO realize an SSD would be a good step, and that IS coming, but as far as the CPU goes, How long do You think I'm good for? BF3/Crysis2/FarCry3 etc...... __________________

System Name:	Internet/Gaming/basement
Processor:	i5 2500k @stock
Motherboard:	Asrock Extreme 3 Gen 3
Cooling:	Corsair H-70
Memory:	16 Gb kingston Hyper X
Video Card:	Powercolor HD 6950
Hard Disk:	Seagate Flounder(barracuda)
Optical Drive:	Junk
CRT/LCD Model:	Dell Ultra Sharp Widescreen 24"
Case:	Thermaltake commander
Sound Card:	Realtech P.O.S Edition X1789,Ver2.78
PSU:	Corsair cx600
Software:	Win 7 Ultimate
Benchmarks:	Good

Jan 2, 2013, 01:47 PM	#24
Frick Fishfaced Nincompoop Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 7,898 (2.99/day) Thanks: 1,076 Thanked 1,449 Times in 1,155 Posts System Specs	One million percent __________________ Typemachine: Acer Aspire One D250 \| Atom N280 1.6 Ghz \| 1GB DDR2 \| 160GB SATA \| 10.1' 1024 x 600 \| Lubuntu 12.10 Oldbox: HP D530 \| Pentium 4 2.8 Ghz \| 1GB DDR \| 40GB \| Windows XP "The 'gentle biker' look is overdone. I'm going for 'psycho hillbilly.' "