Amd64 3400+ and Ratio problems / confusion

[Samurai]

i havnt got alot of time to explain everything just now , but ask of whatever information is need and ill be happy to provide it.

my system

athlon 64 3400+ 2.4ghz 754 newcastle .
running on a K8mm-ilsr (msi-6741)
running some crucial pc3200 200mhz ram CL 3.0 .3.3.8
200gb maxtor sata drive , couple of cd roms , too many fans ,
oh and my X800XT,.

so . when i upgraded my ram to what is listed above ,. i expected the ratio of my fsb/dram to go to 1/1 as my cpu is 200mhz X12multiplier - 2.4ghz and my ram is at 2X200mhz - pc3200 ..

heres where i can be corrected if im wrong ,.

and heres the problem if im not wrong . as my ratio is set at cpu/12 when i was using pc2700 this ratio was cpu/16 ...

Thanks for any helpfull replies , and your time spent with my problem . hojumojo900@hotmail.com -DAN.

p.s the system has never been stable , and im yet to see any game run sucsessfully in full gfx as many other uses with such systems are able to . the only thing the new ram did was stop the unexplicable artifacts i was seeing at random occasions on newer games , when i attemted to even see full gfx modes . oh and im not realy much of an over clocker and dont intend on it , unless its neccassarly.
forgive meh grammer/spelling/punctuation

Thanks !

[djbbenn]

Ok yes the cpu to dram should be 1:1 but whats the problem. Did you set the dram speed in the bios to 400?

-Dan

[zAAm]

I don't quite see what's the problem here either? Your RAM is working at 1:1 with that weird CPU/12 ratio so... Although the CPU/16 ratio would give you 150MHz or 300MHz instead of 333Mhz?? Mmmm.

[gR3iF]

dont use spd timings adjust them manualy
disable fastwrites
switch agp aperture size to 64
dl latest driver delete yours install newest
use workplace---->settinngs--->adjustments--->then use your speed options for windows set it to speed optimiced

[Samurai]

cool , some new sudgestions ,. its realy late hear and my head is hurting from this problem

ill try all the stuff you said and get back to you guys in the morning TY

[gR3iF]

have fun and learn how to install windows probably

[Samurai]

you done it 10+ times aswell ?

[gR3iF]

i do it mostlikely one or two times a week
most times i use then norton ghost but i did it enough without ghost why?

[Samurai]

ok , the spd timings where correct anyway , i did set the timings manualy , but without any effect .

Cpuz is also confirming that my ram is running fine at ddr400 @ 200mhz my cpu is running at the full 200mhz HTT X 12 multiplier @ 2.4ghz -3400+

btw , its 1024 mb in single channel mode if thats of any importance , but i dont think so ... also says that l2 cache of 512kb has a 'full' ratio . im not sure if this could be helpfull either.

i have every driver and bios update available . and fastwrites seems to do nothing on or off... except some performace 'stutters' and about a loss of 5fps in most 3d applications .

use workplace---->settinngs--->adjustments--->then use your speed options for windows set it to speed optimiced ... i didnt know what this ment at all , i use windows xp home standard addition , should i be looking in controll panel for these settings ?

thanks again for you help , this is the only forum im being replied in ., so thanks a lot for anything you guys can help me with !

edit* oh and yeh , still this crazy 1:12 ratio going on , for some reason it lags more than my old pc2700 which should have been 166mhz with its mental 1:16 ratio ... #

[gR3iF]

hm may it be that your ram is double sided and your northbridge cant handle it otherwise check for a bios update

[Samurai]

i replaced the double sided pc2700 with this higher quality single sided crucial ram. i have latest ami bois 1.6 for msi-6741

[Samurai]

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/produc...MS-6741&kind=1

i found this table , i think this could be the problem ? anyone mind interperating that to basic english for me ? or sudgest if it can be fixed or not ?

thanks again guys

edit* also i have the k8n-neo platinum waiting for installation , and this simmilar table would sudjest that the problem would be just the same on my newer motherboard . ?http://www.msi.com.tw/program/produc...MS-7030&kind=1

[gR3iF]

this mean that your cpu can be stable but its in testing or at least if it runs it runs otherwise not

[wtf8269]

Some socket 754 boards have a problem when you run two sticks of ram it will run at pc2700. I had a 754 system that ran my PC3200 at 2700 with two sticks, and it ran at 2100 with three sticks. I had another board that ran two sticks at 3200 and three sticks at 2700. You can try setting your ram to run at 200mhz in your BIOS, but since this is a problem with the DDR controller integrated into the processor it may not fix it.

[Samurai]

i dont understand then , why it would be the memory controller on my amd 64 as many others with my exact system dont have problems like this ., cpuz confirms that the ram is running at 200mhz ddr ...

[wtf8269]

I'm really not sure, the board that I could run two sticks at PC3200 was an NF3 150. When I upgraded to an NF3 250 when I ran two sticks it ran at PC2700. It could just be luck of the draw? I haven't done much research about this, and I only used two 754 motherboards. But sounds to me like you're okay then though if you're running 200mhz now.

[Samurai]

but thats the thing , my system is now even having trouble playing BF2 on lowest settings ..

if my FSB and DRAM are both at 200mhz and my ratio is 1:12 i assume thats why i cant play any games anymore ...

[Samurai]

, so ... theres simply a problem with my onchip memory controller ?

[zAAm]

The socket 754 Athon64's doesn't have an integrated memory controller (hence the fewer pins). So it has to be the northbridge... What does it do when you mean unstable? Memory dumps? Reboots? Blue screens? Or just lagging? What PSU do you have??

[Dippyskoodlez]

Originally Posted by zAAm

I don't quite see what's the problem here either? Your RAM is working at 1:1 with that weird CPU/12 ratio so... Although the CPU/16 ratio would give you 150MHz or 300MHz instead of 333Mhz?? Mmmm.

it is 1:1.. .. due to the way the A64 is designed, it has to divide the CPU speed by XXX to get memory speed, as that is the FSB.

(hence why .5 multipliers have some funky memory speeds)

[Samurai]

i finished installing the cpu on my new k8 mobo , the problem is repeated ,

the problem with my ratio being 1:12 is that i cannot play any games anymore , on this system that is more than capable . my old amdXP 2700+ is out performing this machine, which would simply sudgest that the ratio is definatly not 1:1 ... also considering that normaly with this hardware any diagnostic program would indeed report the correct ratio of 1:1 is further confusing,

sisoft sandra is telling me that :

amd64 memory controller : device does not support bus mastering .

this cpu does . and is able to run at 1:1 in this system ,

the only explination now , as i have replaced everything BUt the cpu is infact faulty memory controller . btw all amd64 have onchip memory controllers , im pritty sure about this , as this is basicly the only difference in arcicheture compared to a pentium procsessor , which is what makes amd s so much more efficient at far lower clock speeds .,

.... dunno what to say realy , except *sigh .

[Dippyskoodlez]

Originally Posted by Samurai

i finished installing the cpu on my new k8 mobo , the problem is repeated ,

the problem with my ratio being 1:12 is that i cannot play any games anymore , on this system that is more than capable . my old amdXP 2700+ is out performing this machine, which would simply sudgest that the ratio is definatly not 1:1 ... also considering that normaly with this hardware any diagnostic program would indeed report the correct ratio of 1:1 is further confusing,

sisoft sandra is telling me that :

amd64 memory controller : device does not support bus mastering .

this cpu does . and is able to run at 1:1 in this system ,

the only explination now , as i have replaced everything BUt the cpu is infact faulty memory controller . btw all amd64 have onchip memory controllers , im pritty sure about this , as this is basicly the only difference in arcicheture compared to a pentium procsessor , which is what makes amd s so much more efficient at far lower clock speeds .,

.... dunno what to say realy , except *sigh .

NO, that is not the only "difference" it uses a completely different pipeline length, branch prediction, etc, along with different BUS. which is provided by the memory controller..

there is NO 1:12 ratio. period.

if cpu-z says CPU/12, it is dividing the CPU by 12 to get the memory speed. The FSB is now = to the memory speed. dividers are related to memory speed, and derived from dividing the FSB. hence the 1:1. 200fsb = 200mhz memory.

Since the "fsb" is now that little gap between the edge of the die and the die itself, it can run insanely high frequencies, and AMD makes use of that, by running the memory controller full speed with the CPU. this is why using a .5 multiplier will return a slightly akward speed, even if its set to 1:1.

See my att5ached picture of my CPU-z. It is running 280*8, but it is running 1:1 with my TCCD.

[Samurai]

ok, yeh . this is what im talkin about . my 'fsb:dram' ratio should be 200fsb - 200mhz , what am i still missing , im sorry if this seems dence . i didnt mean that was the only difference mearly one of the key differences . . not that that is of any importance .
, could anyone help me locate a diagnostic program that will tell me my actual ratio then ,.. as im very confused at this point . , mainly because i havnt realy seen it say anywhere what my actual fsb;ram ratio actualy is ,... if im talking about cpu/dram which should be 12 , and this is not the same as fsb/dram ??

oh dear .

im guessing its just not the same as the old amdXP ... but im still very confused , what explains my terrible performance , and inabillity to run most modern games ?

dippy, would you mind tellin me what kinda performance and gfx settings u use in some newer games , like bf2 or hl2 .. ?

would this also sudgest the best way to overclock a amd 64 is to drop multiplier as much as posible ?

[Dippyskoodlez]

Originally Posted by Samurai

ok, yeh . this is what im talkin about . my 'fsb:dram' ratio should be 200fsb - 200mhz , what am i still missing , im sorry if this seems dence . i didnt mean that was the only difference mearly one of the key differences . . not that that is of any importance .
, could anyone help me locate a diagnostic program that will tell me my actual ratio then ,.. as im very confused at this point . , mainly because i havnt realy seen it say anywhere what my actual fsb;ram ratio actualy is ,... if im talking about cpu/dram which should be 12 , and this is not the same as fsb/dram ??

oh dear .

im guessing its just not the same as the old amdXP ... but im still very confused , what explains my terrible performance , and inabillity to run most modern games ?

dippy, would you mind tellin me what kinda performance and gfx settings u use in some newer games , like bf2 or hl2 .. ?

would this also sudgest the best way to overclock a amd 64 is to drop multiplier as much as posible ?

I run 1280x1024 all full detail 2x aa/af for all my games.

the only way you will get a "ratio" that you are wanting it by looking in the bios. there is no way a program can tell you what "1:1" ratio or anything that it is running, because it is NOT 1:1. at all. take your CPU speed divided by the number reported by your ratio, and you will see your memory speed. CPU-z should also say memory speed above the fsb:dram ratio box.

If anything, post a cpu-z screenshot, and It'll be easier to help you.

[Samurai]

ok, thanks for explaining it , so many times and thouraly, here are those shots you requested, would my slightly aucward HTT setting cause instability , or is it just the poor ram i op'ed for . ?