Super Desktop, Inferior Game Running :(

[tkpenalty]

Originally Posted by Niv

no don't worry about offending me. I doubt that any of you here is doing so on purpose. Well even if you are I don't think I'd be able to catch it all that easilly anyway. lol

k from what I can understand right now from the suggestions so far. I should return my computer for as much as possible ESPECIALLY the CPU and the mother board. I will try my best to see how much of a roll back I can do with my eloquence (while lacking the computer knowledge I still know at least how to reason my way getting my money back). I will try and get this process started today, Friday. If there's one thing that I beneficially lack, it's a feeling of embarassment. I will try whatever it takes to make sure that this whole fiascal doesn't end the way it is right now, a fiascal. This will probably make you guys even more angry, but the $790 price is infact without TAX. Essentially what happened is, if I pay for the whole desktop + monitor in cash (which I did with many $100 and $20 bills) I don't have to pay the tax part. Meaning, if I didn't do that the whole thing would cost at least $850 easilly. He infact told me that this is a "new and top end desktop". In fact the only reason I was ever interested in purchasing the desktop in the first place was for the brand new CPU which he upgraded free of charge. But since that's not the case anymore (with the crappy CPU), my favour has dropped significantly. Thus, I digress no further, I will try and see how much of the desktop I can return.

The most interesting suggestion I have atm is to just buy an entirely new "Box" which I take as in a pre-made ready-to-be-taken-home desktop. I've orginally thought of this, but seeing the prices that these stores are chargin; ranging from $800~900 CDN, I have trouble telling which desktop is infact superior and better. My original desktop purchase plan was this, get a desktop that's mediocre in every aspect (but upgradable later) except the top end Mobo, CPU and video card. (The reason my desktop in the end ended with only the CPU being better is because 1, I was told that the Mobo isn't important at all with desktop performance and 2, my video card is already near the top end) Infact when I first purchased the desktop, it was without hard drive, without dvd-drive for I have these parts pre-purchased as external wares currently in-use wth my laptop.

I thank PsychoTronn for telling me that many parts on this desktop are not upgradable (for reasons I do not know but I trust your opinion), for this defeates my first priority purchasing a desktop. If this desktop is dead the way it is (and the fact that it'll make me unhappy untill it finally breaks), I believe also that I'm better off getting a new one or at least get as much improvements with the current one as possible.

All those been said, I have been suggested Video cards which I can change with. Can anyone also add in the mother board and the CPU model which I can purchase change with? It would be best if I can get the price of the suggested hardwares along with the on-line sites that sells them reliablely.

Mr. Huggles, what is a seasonic? And why is PSU important and how is mine bad?

I'm here not for words that comfort me of my bad purchasing decisions and poor computer knowledge; I am here, for brilliant advices from experts like you and for learning "the world of computers, building, and hardware", hoping that one day, I will enjoy the fun, once I get the hang of it.

keep the suggestions flowing, I check the forum every 6 hours if not sooner.

Our suggestion was, return the system and get a full refund for it, THEN buy from a more reliable location under our advice.

[Mussels]

mobo, PSU, and ram are the oens you want best. Its easy to overclock a CPU if those three are good.

The key is to get the best of the least-upgradeable parts. For example you can always run a 2nd hard drive, or another 2 sticks of ram - but if you buy a new CPU or video card later, you're gunna have to sell, or toss away the old one.

This means the core system should be as good as possible. By a case that suits your needs. Buy a powerful PSU of a quality brand (Antec are good here, they're the only brand that come with a PSU, that is worth having.)
get an overclocking motherboard with OC'able ram (take my system as an example) you can throw any old CPU that fits, and OC the heck out of it (my mobo takes 400FSB chips at stock. it can OC past 500. Most cheap intels are 200, to 266. That means i can (in theory) double the FSB, and double the speeds of these cheap CPU's - other factors come into it but if you can buy a 1.8GHz core 2 duo (The E2160) for $75 and then overclock it to 3GHz... you just saved a lot of money, that you can spend elsewhere.

[mrhuggles]

if it were me i would not get a premade computer, that having been said if you are 100% too scared to put a motherboard in a case, and a cpu in a motherboard, they have barebone computers at places like newegg

[Niv]

Originally Posted by tkpenalty

Our suggestion was, return the system and get a full refund for it, THEN buy from a more reliable location under our advice.

well, following the advices given from you guys, I've managed to arrange a return of the following (excluding some yelling and unhappy comments):
the Case
DVD-burner
Hard drive
CPU
Mothboard
Total amount refounded: around $280

The video card costs about 125 (which I've just found out is a ridiculously high price) , the monitor about 215 +12 recycling fee.

No tax is included, cause eveything is paid in cash (meaning no tracable income... sounds like money laundaring)

Unfortunately I can't get the refound for the video card because it was ordered from the factory and was shiped then have the package opened and discarded. boo

I'm keeping the RAM chip and the Monitor since no one has said any nonoes to those and the price seems pretty reasonable. (RAM is $70 btw)

I will refound everything tomorrow. (Really a pain to keep track of these numbers since I wasn't giving a invoice with price tags or a receit with everything listed out. Very shady... yes.)

Originally Posted by mrhuggles

new cpu and motherboard, as far as psus i suggest a seasonic or one based on a seasonic like mine, well mine is a bit expensive for what you get... but its not bad for sure. but u could get a real seasonic for cheaper. [i got mine cuz i was impacient and at the time its what was there] (yes i do realize i cant spell impacient) *or spell spell* heh

I'm absolutely in your hands now. From tomorrow on I wil have only 1/5 of my nightmare desktop. I do have a gist of how to buy a desktop, or at least what I should aim for. However, I don't recognize any of the model numbers or the brand names for which is better. For example I don't understand why PSU is important, for example what's seasonic? Furthermore, I have trouble understanding the prices for the relative hardwares since I'm as you all know inexperienced. As many of you know, I've been ripped off (somewhat) and it would be nice if I don't get ripped off the second time in 2 months.

Originally Posted by Mussels

My suggestions would be to get an intel system with intel chipset board (asus or gigabyte) as they provide the best performance these days, with either ATI 3850 or Nvidia 9600GT for video.

As an example, my PC is actually rather cheap. (prices are in Au, but similar to Ca)
Asus P5K-E can be had for $160
9600GT for $175
Intel CPU's can go for as low as $80 (this is an overclocking board, so its easy to get say, a 1.8GHz CPU to 2.4GHz and save a lot of money)

I still have trouble understanding what exactly makes a mobo "good" and how can I tell if it's overclocking or not. Got any model number to suggest with some kind of price info? A suggested place or website to purchase from?

Originally Posted by mrhuggles

if it were me i would not get a premade computer, that having been said if you are 100% too scared to put a motherboard in a case, and a cpu in a motherboard, they have barebone computers at places like newegg

Don't worry about me not being able to piece things together, in the worst case I'll just find someone else (like you guys) to help. I have a general bad feeling about pre-made computers too that's why I tried to have a custom build. Mistake I made was to have it done in a store. What's a barebone computer? What does it has?

[Niv]

oh btw should I be starting this in a new thread instead? I mean we're no longer talking about having problems with game playing or anything reletive to that....

[mrhuggles]

are too.

[Mussels]

yeah its ok. this thread is still about you, and wanting to fix your PC. replacing the parts is fixing it.

[Niv]

Originally Posted by Mussels

yeah its ok. this thread is still about you, and wanting to fix your PC. replacing the parts is fixing it.

thanks . If that's the case, can we start getting a list of hardwares that I should look into?
Any model number, make for any of the following, if I can get as much info/ choices as possible that would be great:
Case/Tower
Mobo
CPU
Harddrive
Fans

It would be best if I can have the "good" prices also listed with the hardwares followed by the places that sells them. I don't mean to rush, but I would prefer to have another desktop ready for service before the end of July. Thanks . If anyone also have a suggest place for computer purchasing that would be awesome too.

[Mussels]

No idea on prices and locations - thats hard, i'm not from your country.
Hardware - you can simply look at systems here for good suggestions.

My advice for a solid, reliable system is the following because i have used all these parts together and KNOW they work great.
remember that this is advice. i've been building cost effective systems for friends lately, but as prices will vary between where you are and where i am, there may be cheaper alternatives.

Asus P5K-E wifi (you can go the non wifi model, but its handy)
Core 2 Duo E2160 (they overclock VERY easily on this board. stupidly easy.)
Xigmatek 92mm or 120mm CPU cooler for more OC.
2GB DDR2 ram (800MHz at least, preferably corsair or OCZ)
Nvidia 9600GT video card (Palit sonic edition, 4x outputs is excellent)
Antec sonata designer w/ 500W earthwatts PSU

After that, its peripherals - mouse, keyboard, screen and so on.

[ChromeDome]

Originally Posted by mrhuggles

if it were me i would not get a premade computer, that having been said if you are 100% too scared to put a motherboard in a case, and a cpu in a motherboard, they have barebone computers at places like newegg

i understand this reasoning. but for a newbie unfamiliar with overclocking and who just wants a reliable machine sometimes its the best choice

my first computer was a premade computer and i got my start from doing simple things like RAM upgrades, vid card, HD, sound card, PS...you get the picture

i was too intimidated (this was back in the p4 days) to get into overclocking, bios, bulding, etc. i knew if i blew something out, well, thats my time and money down the drain. so it was a good place for me to start.

and the deals are good sometimes. one maker had a q6600 with 3 gigs of RAM and a 500 gig HD on sale for $499 recently. two day sale...can't beat that with a stick. drop a vid card in and you're good to go. no overclocking ability, but some won't do that, anyway

[Niv]

Originally Posted by Mussels

Asus P5K-E wifi (you can go the non wifi model, but its handy)
Core 2 Duo E2160 (they overclock VERY easily on this board. stupidly easy.)
Xigmatek 92mm or 120mm CPU cooler for more OC.
2GB DDR2 ram (800MHz at least, preferably corsair or OCZ)
Nvidia 9600GT video card (Palit sonic edition, 4x outputs is excellent)
Antec sonata designer w/ 500W earthwatts PSU

thanks for the immediate suggestions: I have 4 quick questions.

1) What is wifi, and how is it helpful?
2) My roomate told me that overclocking is extremely harmful to CPU and that while doing so increases the power, it ultimately means a short lived CPU. How is this true/ false?
3) Since I don't know whether to keep my Current RAM, Transcend 2GB JETRAM DDR2 @ 667MHz, or not. Can you tell me what the difference would be between the RAM you suggested and the one that I currently have? (I'm mainly confused by the 800MHz (RAM speed?))
4) Is PSU (Power Source unit?) a build-in part of your desktop's case or is it something additional which you add in later? (This is my first time hearing about PSU in this forum, so I ultimately what effects it has.)

[Niv]

Originally Posted by PsychoTronn

i understand this reasoning. but for a newbie unfamiliar with overclocking and who just wants a reliable machine sometimes its the best choice

my first computer was a premade computer and i got my start from doing simple things like RAM upgrades, vid card, HD, sound card, PS...you get the picture

i was too intimidated (this was back in the p4 days) to get into overclocking, bios, bulding, etc. i knew if i blew something out, well, thats my time and money down the drain. so it was a good place for me to start.

I must be honest that I'm a bit intimidated also, however I believe that if I'm going to be a serious computer user (which I plan to be) then I'm better off starting now than never. If it wasn't for this commitment, I would still be happy with whatever desktop that I've purchased and is returning right now.

[mrhuggles]

it really depends on the CPU you get, like i got an e2140, those are 1.6ghz by default, what i have it clocked at right now, 2.66ghz thats very very safe, i even lowered the voltage a little from default and it was still ok, some chips are like that, and some are already almost as far as they will go already, its really hitting or getting close to as fast as itl go that would wear it out quickly

e2140 isnt really much faster than what you had befor [overclocked] but its cheap.
your prolly better off with something faster, and you prolly wont need wifi but i know the p5k-e is a really great motherbored, and cheap too for what you get, thats for sure

[ChromeDome]

Originally Posted by Niv

I must be honest that I'm a bit intimidated also, however I believe that if I'm going to be a serious computer user (which I plan to be) then I'm better off starting now than never. If it wasn't for this commitment, I would still be happy with whatever desktop that I've purchased and is returning right now.

a good place to star then is: how much money do you have to spend...and what do you want to do with your computer? now and in the future?

i hope the shopkeeper is ok with this. its not that what he built was terrible (although i can think of no reason to "downgrade" you from the 6400+ to the 4800+) its just part of what you paid for was for him to build it. and at this point to have an AMD machine built with a 4800+ and an 8600GT just isn't cost effective because of the labor charge involved. i understand the man has to make a profit. even off the parts...

...but still, for the same price or a little more he could have taken into consideration to tell you that other more viable hardware is available for a little more money (or the same) that would do you more good as time goes on.

i'm sure he is a good guy, and business is business, but thats just what i would have done.

hope it all works out

[DaedalusHelios]

That place you bought the computer from is breaking laws all over the place. I would sue.

A registered business offering to sell you something tax free is illegal. In the US that stuff gets you audited in a heartbeat.

I am deeply sorry you ran into a bunch of scam artists.

That businesses handling of the return, is incredibly unprofessional. I am surprised someone can do survive with such misleading business practices.

[Niv]

Right and of course I've forgotten something most important here, what I want to do with my computer:
1) Hardcore gamming
2) Video editing rendering (final cut, windows movie maker etc.)
3) Macromedia flash processing
4) Sound, music rendering (ex. Fruity Loop, Sibelius etc.)
5) 3D Rendering (ex. blender (this is still being explored))

Those are my 5 main goals for the new computer.

btw, I have nothing against the shopkeeper really other than the fact that he 100% of the time force shoved his opinion on me. I asked him about the video card he told me it was the best in the store. I asked him about the CPU he told me it was too new for my games. When asked why, 9/10 he just says "I don't know".

I've just found this fully build computer from this website here: http://www.genericcomputer.com/shop/...sp?itemid=6865

What do you guys think of it? Should I try swapping parts or should I start clean? This store is on my way back from the other one, I can definitly walk in ask a couple questions. I also plan to pay a visit to NCIX afterward where I usually order my laptop purchases.

[DaedalusHelios]

Man, if you lived near me I would build you one free of charge. I would just help you order the parts. To bad you don't live anywhere close. It only takes a day to build one and load all the software you listed.

NCIX would be much better.

[Niv]

Originally Posted by DaedalusHelios

Man, if you lived near me I would build you one free of charge. I would just help you order the parts. To bad you don't live anywhere close. It only takes a day to build one and load all the software you listed.

NCIX would be much better.

NCIX is offering too many options and I'm getting confused. X( can you perhaps post one which you think will be good for my purpose? My price range is very wide. between 600~750 is good. Don't need keyboard, monitor, speaker, mouse etc. I've got all those covered already.

[Niv]

Originally Posted by DaedalusHelios

Man, if you lived near me I would build you one free of charge. I would just help you order the parts. To bad you don't live anywhere close. It only takes a day to build one and load all the software you listed.

If you wish, let me know what are the parts that you plan to order, the websites or places where you will get them from, the final price. I can do the ordering part following your suggestions and i can surely find someone to help me put those things together. I have the softwares btw, I use them on my laptop. I need a desktop cause I'm over burdening my laptop and I need the laptop for something else.

[DaedalusHelios]

Originally Posted by Niv

If you wish, let me know what are the parts that you plan to order, the websites or places where you will get them from, the final price. I can do the ordering part following your suggestions and i can surely find someone to help me put those things together. I have the softwares btw, I use them on my laptop. I need a desktop cause I'm over burdening my laptop and I need the laptop for something else.

Add me on Aim firelizard1337 and I will guide you through it. I am off of work tomorrow so I can help you as much as you need tonight.

[Niv]

em.... how do I add... you? This is like my 3rd or 4th time ever using a forum, so I'm as noob as anyone really can be...

[DaedalusHelios]

Originally Posted by Niv

em.... how do I add... you? This is like my 3rd or 4th time ever using a forum, so I'm as noob as anyone really can be...

AIM is an instant messenger... or do you use yahoo messenger?

[ChromeDome]

Originally Posted by Niv

Right and of course I've forgotten something most important here, what I want to do with my computer:
1) Hardcore gamming
2) Video editing rendering (final cut, windows movie maker etc.)
3) Macromedia flash processing
4) Sound, music rendering (ex. Fruity Loop, Sibelius etc.)
5) 3D Rendering (ex. blender (this is still being explored))

Those are my 5 main goals for the new computer.

btw, I have nothing against the shopkeeper really other than the fact that he 100% of the time force shoved his opinion on me. I asked him about the video card he told me it was the best in the store. I asked him about the CPU he told me it was too new for my games. When asked why, 9/10 he just says "I don't know".

I've just found this fully build computer from this website here: http://www.genericcomputer.com/shop/...sp?itemid=6865

What do you guys think of it? Should I try swapping parts or should I start clean? This store is on my way back from the other one, I can definitly walk in ask a couple questions. I also plan to pay a visit to NCIX afterward where I usually order my laptop purchases.

well, its not bad. that computer could be built for around $600 doing it yourself with inexpensive but solid hardware, so its not bad. trouble is it has no monitor or OS. and at $700 already, plus tax and what you have to put into it, if you are going prebuilt....its very pricey.

when buying prebuilt its always good to go with a maker who can give you the best "bang for your buck." these are usually the larger vendors such as Dell, Gateway, etc. for example for $739 with an e coupon at Dell America you can get this atm:



thats a good value and with monitor and OS included you could not build it cheaper, most likely. now you won't get to overclock the processor, etc...but with an E8300 you wouldn't need to. the vid card is lacking but you could easily order other stuff on the computer instead and add your own later, or simply make due with it until you couldn't any longer.

maybe things just cost more in Canada

i'm not saying get a premade...however if you do look for something like this, (Intel, etc) OS and monitor should be included. a smaller builder like the one you linked can't really do that. and although their system might be set up to tweak and overclock, again, because its an AMD X2 based system you have little room for any of that or to upgrade the processor later. its not a bad computer and it would do what you want (look at my specs) its just not a good value or very....desirable atm

i'm not an AMD vs Intel guy, i think thats stupid. but if you are buying now, other then a budget build / purchase, intel is the way to go imo. if the computer you linked came with a nice monitor and OS for around $800 i would probably say 'if that is what is available to you, go for it.' but if you had more choices, i would explore them, most definitely.

also for your purposes (what you posted you wanted the computer for) a nice quad core like the intel q6600 would be nice. good all around processor that does very well with what you listed. its not necessary, but it would do you some good.

i like the offer of DeadalusHelios. work with him a little and others here. they will steer you right. you can build something good, buy a box, or w/e, but you should come out with something more (a lot more) then what you started with. so have fun....

man if you lived in America all this pricing / availability would be easier to grasp....

[Niv]

Originally Posted by DaedalusHelios

Add me on Aim firelizard1337 and I will guide you through it. I am off of work tomorrow so I can help you as much as you need tonight.

Okay, this nut head has decided to go 500% out helping me starting from scratch, and I've given him my faith and [whisper] some bling blings for the completion of our goals. I will continue to take in further info. that helps to teach me more about computer buildling, and for the great enthusiasm that everyone here has displayed for me, I will click the em "thanks" button for every posts that contributed directly or indirectly (Donno what the button do but I feel the need to thank people, so thanking people I shall.) After I wake up for now, I must sleep. . Once again, Thanks a TON for helping. I shall not forget this .

[DaedalusHelios]

Parts have been ordered!

As soon as they get here, it will be constructed and sent to ya!

Check out his future rig:

Q6600 (will be OC'ed to 3Ghz to start off)
Xigmatek 120mm rifle HDT (will be lapped so he can Overclock easily)
Gigabyte EP35-DS3L
OCZ Platinum Rev.2 (2x1GB) DDR2 800
Seasonic 500watt
Palit 9600gt 512mb Sonic
Seagate 32mb buffer 500GB Hard Drive
SATA 20X DVD Burner Lite-On
Decent Rosewill Case

All totaled a little below $800 Canadian or maybe a little more. I don't know exchange rates off the top of my head. LOL

Linkage:

The CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115018
The motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128337
The ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227139
The case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811147066
The cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835233003
The Hard Drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148288
The DVD Burner: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106228
The PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151040
The graphics card: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...tCode=10007955