Water Cooling vs. Coolit Freezone ELITE

[Bluefox1115]

Just wondering peoples thoughts, or actual reviews/ reference, on how the Coolit Freezone ELITE compares in comparison to a custom water loop performance, noise, and price wise? I was looking at a custom loop and the price soared into the $300 to $400 range. For reference, rad. would be a DD Black Ice GT 2x120mm, DTek Fuzion V2, 1/2" ID tubing, swiftech microres or EK "tube" res, Laing D5 or DD CPX/ DTek DB1 equiv. Thanks in advance for any input on the issue! Discussion welcome..

[Paulieg]

Originally Posted by Bluefox1115

Just wondering peoples thoughts, or actual reviews/ reference, on how the Coolit Freezone ELITE compares in comparison to a custom water loop performance, noise, and price wise? I was looking at a custom loop and the price soared into the $300 to $400 range. For reference, rad. would be a DD Black Ice GT 2x120mm, DTek Fuzion V2, 1/2" ID tubing, swiftech microres or EK "tube" res, Laing D5 or DD CPX/ DTek DB1 equiv. Thanks in advance for any input on the issue! Discussion welcome..

The Elite will have lower idle temps, but will not compete well with water on full load. I've had both, and I'd say the Freezone is not worth the money. Believe it or not, it's actually more cumbersome to work inside your case with the freezone installed. The stock fan is also quite noisy. I'd go with custom water in a heartbeat.

[Bluefox1115]

Hey thanks for the superfast reply! I was thinking that a custom water setup would be better as well, but saw the Freezone for $330, and thought I would look into it, considering its a nice compact, all in one package, but for the price, I could get all the parts I listed above and a little more for around the same figure.

[GenPatton]

"The stock fan is also quite noisy. I'd go with custom water in a heartbeat."
I have to interject here. Quite simply I think this person has never ever used the Coolit Freezone ELITE as that is simply not the case. You can set the fan speed to either low, medium or high. On high it is not to bad, on medium it is quite silent. Not only that but the Coolit is BY FAR easier to install. I get a kick out of "Water addicts". Check the reviews out there on the Coolit product, you will find it to be very well reviewed.
One more thing you should know. ANY water cooling device will not cool below the ambient temperature in the room, it's not designed to do that. The Coolit device will actually cool a processor below the ambient temperature in the room. Think "fridge" and you will understand. And by the way, I have installed some quite sophisticated water cooling setups, including Swiftech and Danger Den. I hated everyone of them and now only use the Coolit. But don't trust me or Paulieg; check the reviews and you will probably come to the same conclusion I have.
Bottom line: The Coolit has all of the advantages of a water cooler with none of it's detraction's.

[Paulieg]

Originally Posted by GenPatton

"The stock fan is also quite noisy. I'd go with custom water in a heartbeat."
I have to interject here. Quite simply I think this person has never ever used the Coolit Freezone ELITE as that is simply not the case. You can set the fan speed to either low, medium or high. On high it is not to bad, on medium it is quite silent. Not only that but the Coolit is BY FAR easier to install. I get a kick out of "Water addicts". Check the reviews out there on the Coolit product, you will find it to be very well reviewed.
One more thing you should know. ANY water cooling device will not cool below the ambient temperature in the room, it's not designed to do that. The Coolit device will actually cool a processor below the ambient temperature in the room. Think "fridge" and you will understand. And by the way, I have installed some quite sophisticated water cooling setups, including Swiftech and Danger Den. I hated everyone of them and now only use the Coolit. But don't trust me or Paulieg; check the reviews and you will probably come to the same conclusion I have.
Bottom line: The Coolit has all of the advantages of a water cooler with none of it's detraction's.

Actually, I have used both extensively. Like I said, the Freezone looks great at idle. I did have sub-ambient temps. HOWEVER, on an overclocked load the TEC and block CANNOT keep up with a good water cooling loop. This is certainly my personal experience. Oh, and by the way, the TEC used in the Freezone has a high failure rate. This was confirmed to me by someone inside of the Coolit organization, after a buddy of mine went through 2 of them in less than 6 months. And the fan on low is just fine, but when you turn it up it is louder than any gpu fan I've ever heard. You may want to ask yourself why you find several enthusiast sites full of people with water cooling, and only the occasional Freezone owner. Don't get me wrong though, the Freezone has it's place for people who want to just "install it and forget it" and get better temps than the majority of air coolers. I just think it's very overpriced for what it is.

Originally Posted by Bluefox1115

Hey thanks for the superfast reply! I was thinking that a custom water setup would be better as well, but saw the Freezone for $330, and thought I would look into it, considering its a nice compact, all in one package, but for the price, I could get all the parts I listed above and a little more for around the same figure.

Actually, if you look around you can find a nice custom water cooling loop for just over $200 new.

[Marineborn]

i own the domino alc, its cheap about 80 bucks or lower, cools better then the thermaalright 120 and cheaper, and does awesome under a load, i pushed my 920 to 4.5gigz under it at 49C idle.....sooo i like it...i dunno the freezone elite is there old model i would reccomend the domino alc, it does have 1 cheap part on it which is annoying but easily fixed with glue, other than that its a nice easy covenant small system

[Paulieg]

Originally Posted by Marineborn

i own the domino alc, its cheap about 80 bucks or lower, cools better then the thermaalright 120 and cheaper, and does awesome under a load, i pushed my 920 to 4.5gigz under it at 49C idle.....sooo i like it...i dunno the freezone elite is there old model i would reccomend the domino alc, it does have 1 cheap part on it which is annoying but easily fixed with glue, other than that its a nice easy covenant small system

I'd like to see some screenies on load. I know I idle at 29c at 4.2ghz on water.

[Marineborn]

Originally Posted by Paulieg

I'd like to see some screenies on load. I know I idle at 29c at 4.2ghz on water.

i would too..LOL!! i could only hold it stable for about 36 seconds. HAHAHAHAHHAA the ol 920 didnt like the 1.67 volts i was pushing threw it

[Dia01]

I've also owned a Freezone. Idle temps were below ambient which was great, can confirm that the unit also struggled a little at load. The main problem that I experienced though was when I purchased a new mobo (Striker II) the actual chiller unit's formed condensation due to the heat output from the Mosfet heat sinks. I had removed the unit and haven't used it since.

[Paulieg]

Originally Posted by Marineborn

i would too..LOL!! i could only hold it stable for about 36 seconds. HAHAHAHAHHAA the ol 920 didnt like the 1.67 volts i was pushing threw it

I'd like to see load temps at say, 4.1ghz on 1.4v. That should be easy enough to do.

[Marineborn]

Originally Posted by Paulieg

I'd like to see load temps at say, 4.1ghz on 1.4v. That should be easy enough to do.

then you should probably buy a domino alc and test it at 4.1ghz at 1.4v which i dont see happening, lol im not subjecting my poor 940 to anymore abuse, its seen enough im just running it at 3.6gigz at 1.45V 24.7 now at idle 31 c

[Paulieg]

Originally Posted by Marineborn

then you should probably buy a domino alc and test it at 4.1ghz at 1.4v which i dont see happening, lol im not subjecting my poor 940 to anymore abuse, its seen enough im just running it at 3.6gigz at 1.45V 24.7 now at idle 31 c

LOL, just realized you were on an AMD system. That would be 3.8 on 1.5v then. I understand though. I'd just like to see some real life comparisons. Genpatton, what's your setup like? Could you give some overclocked load temps?

[GenPatton]

Your entitled to your opinion and I respect that. But I would like to address several things you say:

1. "TEC and block CANNOT keep up with a good water cooling loop."
I already addressed this. Any water cooling system cannot cool below ambient.
Technically speaking any Thermoelectric Cooler device will always cool more efficient than a water cooling setup. (For proof see # 6.)


2. "Tec cooler has a high failure rate."
This is just nonsense unless you can back this up with more than several complaints from people in this or another forum. I am in industrial sales and actually have a bit of experience with Thermoelectric Coolers. There is absolutely no way they would have a high failure rate. The ones used by CoolIT are industrially designed and are similar to ones that work well in the oil and gas industry cooling thermal regulation devices. They do not fail as a rule.

3. "Actually, if you look around you can find a nice custom water cooling loop for just over $200 new."
In my opinion not a decent one worth purchasing, and certainly not one as good as a CoolIT product.

4. "And the fan on low is just fine, but when you turn it up it is louder than any gpu fan I've ever heard."
Your right, on high the fan is a little loud, but why would you turn it up that far?? Many reviews have been done on the internet by reputable sites including Tom's hardware. He states that the temperature obtained from the Coolit device is acceptable even with the fan on medium.

5. "You may want to ask yourself why you find several enthusiast sites full of people with water cooling, and only the occasional Freezone owner."
I did ask myself that question, and it's answer is simple. You said it yourself when you stated your sentence. "Several enthusiast sites full of people with water cooling"
TEC coolers that are self contained are only now reaching the cooling prowess to beat the best of the water coolers. This technology as used to cool CPU cores is still in it's infancy. Wait three years and most likely you will see many many more people using Thermoelectric Coolers in computing. It certainly makes sense from a physics standpoint. And from a user experience it is far more elegant.

6. This refers to my statement that Thermoelectric Coolers work well and that the CoolIT Freezone Elite is a viable product. As I said earlier there are your opinions and my opinions. But what really counts are the reviews. There are about ten reviews of the Elite and other CoolIT Thermoelectric Coolers on the web, three of the reviews fair, the other seven are giving the unit very high scores. Even water cooling reviews are as good or worse than that. So in conclusion I am simply going to let the following several reviews state my case for me:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...olit,1634.html

http://techgage.com/article/coolit_f...e_cpu_cooler/1

http://www.nordichardware.com/Review...&skrivelse=520

[phanbuey]

i think you guys might be talking about two different things...

yes TEC cooling has the potential to be better than water, but the Freezone is not one of those solutions. Why? because that TEC is not cooled well enough on the other end. if you hooked a Freezone to a double or triple rad then you would have a monster setup... but as it stands, that particular rad does not have enough surface (the 120MM rad on the other side) area on it to cool the hot side of the TEC at load, and thus becomes worthless for extreme cooling applications. Whereas a good waterloop's performance doesn't drop off a cliff after you hit a certain heat output.

[Paulieg]

Originally Posted by GenPatton

Your entitled to your opinion and I respect that. But I would like to address several things you say:

1. "TEC and block CANNOT keep up with a good water cooling loop."
I already addressed this. Any water cooling system cannot cool below ambient.
Technically speaking any Thermoelectric Cooler device will always cool more efficient than a water cooling setup. (For proof see # 6.)


2. "Tec cooler has a high failure rate."
This is just nonsense unless you can back this up with more than several complaints from people in this or another forum. I am in industrial sales and actually have a bit of experience with Thermoelectric Coolers. There is absolutely no way they would have a high failure rate. The ones used by CoolIT are industrially designed and are similar to ones that work well in the oil and gas industry cooling thermal regulation devices. They do not fail as a rule.

3. "Actually, if you look around you can find a nice custom water cooling loop for just over $200 new."
In my opinion not a decent one worth purchasing, and certainly not one as good as a CoolIT product.

4. "And the fan on low is just fine, but when you turn it up it is louder than any gpu fan I've ever heard."
Your right, on high the fan is a little loud, but why would you turn it up that far?? Many reviews have been done on the internet by reputable sites including Tom's hardware. He states that the temperature obtained from the Coolit device is acceptable even with the fan on medium.

5. "You may want to ask yourself why you find several enthusiast sites full of people with water cooling, and only the occasional Freezone owner."
I did ask myself that question, and it's answer is simple. You said it yourself when you stated your sentence. "Several enthusiast sites full of people with water cooling"
TEC coolers that are self contained are only now reaching the cooling prowess to beat the best of the water coolers. This technology as used to cool CPU cores is still in it's infancy. Wait three years and most likely you will see many many more people using Thermoelectric Coolers in computing. It certainly makes sense from a physics standpoint. And from a user experience it is far more elegant.

6. This refers to my statement that Thermoelectric Coolers work well and that the CoolIT Freezone Elite is a viable product. As I said earlier there are your opinions and my opinions. But what really counts are the reviews. There are about ten reviews of the Elite and other CoolIT Thermoelectric Coolers on the web, three of the reviews fair, the other seven are giving the unit very high scores. Even water cooling reviews are as good or worse than that. So in conclusion I am simply going to let the following several reviews state my case for me:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...olit,1634.html

http://techgage.com/article/coolit_f...e_cpu_cooler/1

http://www.nordichardware.com/Review...&skrivelse=520

I'm feeling like we're going to run around in circles with this. As far as #1 goes, I admitted that the Freezone is impressive on idle. My concern is with an overclocked chip on full load. This is where I found the WC loop to be significantly superior to the Freezone. We all know that the sub-ambient temps are just eye candy if temps go to hell on load.

As for a decent setup around $200, here you go:
http://us-dc2-order.store.yahoo.net/...onId=ysco.cart

yes TEC cooling has the potential to be better than water, but the Freezone is not one of those solutions. Why? because that TEC is not cooled well enough on the other end. if you hooked a Freezone to a double or triple rad then you would have a monster setup... but as it stands, that particular rad does not have enough surface (the 120MM rad on the other side) area on it to cool the hot side of the TEC at load, and thus becomes worthless for extreme cooling applications. Whereas a good waterloop's performance doesn't drop off a cliff after you hit a certain heat output.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Of course TEC can be effective. It just seems the TEC in the Freezone is not strong enough to handle an overclocked chip.

[GenPatton]

Originally Posted by Paulieg

LOL, just realized you were on an AMD system. That would be 3.8 on 1.5v then. I understand though. I'd just like to see some real life comparisons. Genpatton, what's your setup like? Could you give some overclocked load temps?

I have an Intel Quad Q6600, batch SLACR with the Go stepping.
(If I remember correctly this is a 95 watt 6600 versus the 105 watt stepping)
It's overclocked to 3006Mhz, on a 1336Mhz Front Side Bus.
My MB is a Gigabyte EP45-UD3P
My new Soundcard is a Auzen X-fi Forte 7.1
(Modified OP Amps on order from Auzen)
My Power supply is a PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750
Case is a Lian Li PCV1000X
(It's huge and maybe why I don't get the condensation issues someone mentioned in an earlier post.)
I have a Saphire HD 4870 and I just found out from this forum (Thank you) that there is an update for the firmware, as this card crashes constantly when gaming.
I have the Freezone Elite in the case cooling the CPU.
There is a fan mounted on the Lian side rail which helps cool the Motherboard as there is no air movement.
I have done this overclocking without a voltage increase above 1.4 v and with HyperPi running on all four cores the temps on the CPU never exceed 54 degrees Celsius.
I also ran four instances of Prime 95 for about four hours with similar temperatures.
I might have missed something here also as I am as old as dirt............

[Paulieg]

Originally Posted by GenPatton

I have an Intel Quad Q6600, batch SLACR with the Go stepping.
(If I remember correctly this is a 95 watt 6600 versus the 105 watt stepping)
It's overclocked to 3006Mhz, on a 1336Mhz Front Side Bus.
My MB is a Gigabyte EP45-UD3P
My new Soundcard is a Auzen X-fi Forte 7.1
(Modified OP Amps on order from Auzen)
My Power supply is a PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750
Case is a Lian Li PCV1000X
(It's huge and maybe why I don't get the condensation issues someone mentioned in an earlier post.)
I have a Saphire HD 4870 and I just found out from this forum (Thank you) that there is an update for the firmware, as this card crashes constantly when gaming.
I have the Freezone Elite in the case cooling the CPU.
There is a fan mounted on the Lian side rail which helps cool the Motherboard as there is no air movement.
I have done this overclocking without a voltage increase above 1.4 v and with HyperPi running on all four cores the temps on the CPU never exceed 54 degrees Celsius.
I also ran four instances of Prime 95 for about four hours with similar temperatures.
I might have missed something here also as I am as old as dirt............

Those are about the same load temps I had on my Q6600 GO at 3.8 1.5v under a Zerotherm NV120. You could probably dig up one of the old Q6600 GO threads with my posts to confirm this.

[phanbuey]

i got 56C prime at 3.6 GHz at 1.53V (got a DUD) with a custom water setup.

[GenPatton]

What case where you using?
My temps average 45 under load. 54 was the highest peak I ever got using Hyperpi.
Actually I got better temps with my old 3870, which was weird. How the heck the video card is increasing the temps in the case is beyond me?
I thought the 4870 was supposed to be a less hot GPU too.
Not so far, for some reason my temps went up big time, both on the motherboard and the CPU a little as well. I am also pissed at the random lockups I am getting. Until I read the post on the bios update my thoughts were to rip the card out and give it to my Daughter and then put in the old 3870.
Any ideas why the temp difference would be appreciated.

[Paulieg]

Originally Posted by GenPatton

What case where you using?
My temps average 45 under load. 54 was the highest peak I ever got using Hyperpi.
Actually I got better temps with my old 3870, which was weird. How the heck the video card is increasing the temps in the case is beyond me?
I thought the 4870 was supposed to be a less hot GPU too.
Not so far, for some reason my temps went up big time, both on the motherboard and the CPU a little as well. I am also pissed at the random lockups I am getting. Until I read the post on the bios update my thoughts were to rip the card out and give it to my Daughter and then put in the old 3870.
Any ideas why the temp difference would be appreciated.

Are the gpu HSF both reference?

[SK-1]

The Coolit series is a very inefficient way of utilizing tec technology. They do seem to be getting a bit better with the latest versions. I have owned just about every version except the Boreas MTEC series. This (120mm fan mod) is the only way to fly with a Freezone imo. They are way noisy with that 92mm leaf-blower. With decent case airflow and good ambient temps,hands down,no water cooling option I have ever owned can compete with a modded Freezone idle or load. If I want to see what a cpu can do, I install the freezone. It only takes 10 minutes to install.

[Bluefox1115]

If I'm gonna spend $300 to $400, I think I would rather do a custom loop with the option to WC my graphics card(s) as well. Also, note that you can buy a TEC plate for a WC setup for about $40 for ~230Watt discipation. I just wanted to be lazy and just drop something in and turn it on, but for the price, I can see where and why a WC loop has its advantages. I've read at least a dozen reviews from websites, and dozens of others from owners of the Freezone tonight on various websites, and I found a couple common issues. Load temps, my Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Panaflo works as good as the Coolit on medium, wirelooming is a must, noise complaints. I think I'll take a dive into water for the money and sake of my overclocking habits. With that said, without reciting what I listed prior,(just scroll up to my first post), any suggestions on parts, and/or configurations?

Edit: I can see different peoples arguments and points of view, and I'm quite picky and meticulous, so I think a water loop would be good for me, because I rarely overlook things, and triple check everything usually..

[GenPatton]

Originally Posted by Paulieg

Are the gpu HSF both reference?

Yes, both of the fans are the stock ones that came with the GPU's. Both are Saphire as well. The bios update fixed the crashes, but the temperature still remains higher than the previous card. Odd that.

[Bluefox1115]

the HD4xxx series run warmer because they have more than double the features on the same size die, along with faster clock speeds and gddr5, so there's a whole lot of heat to discipate there. I've actually burned (and melted) skin on my hand from touching a 4870 inside of an Antec 900 with plenty of air flow, while the system was idling, and gpu fan set to ~45%. So basically anything touching it or close to it, is going to get warmer as well, unfortunately.

[GenPatton]

Originally Posted by Bluefox1115

the HD4xxx series run warmer because they have more than double the features on the same size die, along with faster clock speeds and gddr5, so there's a whole lot of heat to discipate there. I've actually burned (and melted) skin on my hand from touching a 4870 inside of an Antec 900 with plenty of air flow, while the system was idling, and gpu fan set to ~45%. So basically anything touching it or close to it, is going to get warmer as well, unfortunately.

That explains it then.
Thanks for the info. For some reason I thought they would have been on a more efficient die and generate less heat. I am going to put a 120mm fan in the Lian Li case this morning, mount it on the side bracket and aim it down at the card. I hope that helps.
Thanks for the information!