Question AGP 4x 1.5v only slot. shader version 3 card?

[fuel]

Hi im interested in buying a new videocard, but is has to have at least shader model 3 or up. i am restricted to an AGP 4x 1.5volt only slot. does anyone know some cards which has these capabilities? preferably i'd like a 512mb card.

[erocker]

8x AGP is backwards compatable with AGP 4x so a card like the x1950 pro would work or a Nvidia 7XXX series card since both offer shader model 3.

This is the newest card you can get that offers the best performance, though I'm unsure how bottlenecked it's going to be by the x4 AGP slot or the rest of your system. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102730

[fuel]

so this doesnt create a voltage issue since 8x AGP runs on 0,8 and AGP 4x runs on 1.5 volt?

[erocker]

.8V is the voltage requirement of new 8x AGP cards utilizing AGP specification 3.0. Motherboards supporting 8x AGP support both 1.5V AGP 2.0 compliant cards (AGP 4x) and newer .8V AGP 3.0 compliant cards (AGP 8x). The keying for AGP 3.0 cards is identical to that of AGP 2.0 cards to retain backward compatibility. A motherboard that supports 8x AGP should work fine with a 1.5V (AGP 4x video card), and a motherboard that supports 1.5V (AGP 4x) video cards should work ok with a .8V video card (AGP 8x), however in the later example the video card would only work at the fastest speed the motherboard supports (AGP 4x).

http://www.directron.com/15agpguide.html

Compatible

[fuel]

are there "true" AGP 4x cards which have a SM3+ compatibility?

[Dippyskoodlez]

Originally Posted by fuel

so this doesnt create a voltage issue since 8x AGP runs on 0,8 and AGP 4x runs on 1.5 volt?

I believe the only issue is the OLD 3V AGP slots that were either 2x and maybe 4x.

If you have an AXP or P4(Or newer), it should work fine with an 8x card.

Originally Posted by fuel

are there "true" AGP 4x cards which have a SM3+ compatibility?

"native", no.

They all have a PCI-E to AGP chip.

If you're talking 4x instead of 8x, No, there never was ever. AGP8x was better always, since it was backwards compatible.

[fuel]

ok thanks youve been great help both! going for the hd3650 thanks!

[lemonadesoda]

Whatever "budget" you are on, consider a mainboard upgrade, even if an old board from ebay. A "modern" 8x mainboard with DDR dual channel will improve performance overall.

[Sir_Real]

I'd be careful what you shell out for. U havent filled in your system specs so i dont know what you have. But by the fact its only agp 4x i'm guessing its not going to have much processing performance. Prob an athlon XP or P4 single core cpu at a guess.
If thats the case i'd not bother with one of the top agp cards ( HD3850 or HD4650 ) Your pc is not going to make them sing & you'll end up with worse gaming proformance than if you had gone with something abit older & cheaper.

For 2 to 3ghz single core cpu's a good bet is a hd2600xt or x1950 pro or NV7800GS. These all work fine at agp 4x.

[lemonadesoda]

Let me add that an Atom 330 board (Zotac) will outperform your older P3/P4/AMD, run silent, and consumer a fraction of the power. You can set it up for about $150... and recover $50 by selling your old stuff. So net investment not much more than the cost of the GPU you are thinking about.

+ consider what Sir Real said. Careful about investing in older tech if the older tech isnt "top spec". I still use AGP, but then I'm using a Q6600 to drive it; hence a top end AGP GPU makes sense. If you have a P3/P4/AMD older system you are bolting a "turbo" onto a trabant. Dont do it.

[fuel]

ive added my spec's. is the hd3650 going to do any good on my specs? or is it going to be the "turbo on the trabant" (nice analogy) for me?

[Dippyskoodlez]

Anything faster than an x850XT is going to be bottlenecked by it most likely.

[Sir_Real]

Originally Posted by fuel

ive added my spec's. is the hd3650 going to do any good on my specs? or is it going to be the "turbo on the trabant" (nice analogy) for me?

I know this as i've built many pc's & played around with many cpu & gpu combinations. A p4 3ghz isnt great so if your mobo will alow try overclocking it. even with budget pc3200 ram you should get around 3.4

That will help matters. I'd go with a HD2600xt second hand off ebay. that will defo be cheaper than a new hd3650 & with only a P4 3ghz powering it the HD2600xt will most likely give better preformance. There pretty much the same card anyway !

[erocker]

Originally Posted by Dippyskoodlez

Anything faster than an x850XT is going to be bottlenecked by it most likely.

A 3650 would match up with a x850XT but has SM3.

[fuel]

I know this as i've built many pc's & played around with many cpu & gpu combinations. A p4 3ghz isnt great so if your mobo will alow try overclocking it. even with budget pc3200 ram you should get around 3.4

Overclocking: True, the 3.0 isnt a great overclocking processor, it has temperature problems when overclocking. But its the only socket 478 processor which has hypertreading capabilities. This rare Northwood 3.0 variant is a bit better then the celeron variant your probably are referring to, it will go up to about 3,9ghz. But still only run true stable at about 3.4ghz (140 FSB). The original processor (2.4ghz no HT) runs about the same: 3.1ghz stable but as you can imagine with a lot of FSB (171) more thus probably faster. Benchmarking both of them however will result in a much higher scoring of the 3.0 chip this is because of the Hypertreading. ok im running a bit off topic now ill leave it to this.

That will help matters. I'd go with a HD2600xt second hand off ebay. That will defo be cheaper than a new hd3650 & with only a P4 3ghz powering it the HD2600xt will most likely give better preformance. There pretty much the same card anyway !

Im not really looking to save money or anything, both cards are within the budget. Would you still prefer the 2600 over the 3650? Sorry for the probably a bit nooby questions, i never looked into the videocard stuff. Until recently i never had any use for video capabilities, only audio so i'm really a noob in videocard hardware knowlegde.

Anyone?

[Dippyskoodlez]

Originally Posted by fuel

Overclocking: True, the 3.0 isnt a great overclocking processor, it has temperature problems when overclocking. But its the only socket 478 processor which has hypertreading capabilities. This rare Northwood 3.0 variant is a bit better then the celeron variant your probably are referring to, it will go up to about 3,9ghz. But still only run true stable at about 3.4ghz (140 FSB). The original processor (2.4ghz no HT) runs about the same: 3.1ghz stable but as you can imagine with a lot of FSB (171) more thus probably faster. Benchmarking both of them however will result in a much higher scoring of the 3.0 chip this is because of the Hypertreading. ok im running a bit off topic now ill leave it to this.

Slow CPU is slow.

[fuel]

lol. Very true, nevertheless it still was fun to see what it can do (or in your view still can't do )

for my usage this pc is still fine except for the videocard. but i do realize it is about time to start building the next. buying this card i think i can squeeze another year out of this dinosaur.

[Frick]

You can totally get another year from that. The upgrade, even if it's modest, will make a difference in games.

[Sir_Real]

To be honist i'd forget bout upgrading your gpu. Put the money towards a total upgrade. Save for the other parts.
I see you have 2x 22" lcd monitors why not sell one. The money from that should get you a mobo. Plus you already have money for a gpu. You may be able to use the case, psu & hard drive from your old rig. If so theres just ram to buy & thats come right down in price.

You need a dual core & a pci-e mobo. Its almost a must to play newer games.

Just upgrading your gpu is'nt going to get you playing games so as Cod5 or crysis unless you dont mind low settings & poor frame rates !

[fuel]

So i've read a lot of threads with questions and i seldom see some conclusions so i've decided to colclude this questions with a short end.

-I've decided to buy the ATI HD3850 agp 512mb

-I bought one for 80 euro (112 dollar). (in europe electronics are a bit more expensive)

-The installation was easy, the card fitted on the old MSI board. same for PSU connections

results!!!

*The card works at 99% of the speed that is noted to a simular card by sisandra.
*There are no grafic issuses or any problems in-game. All newer games seem to work fine.
*Games i've tryd without problems
1 Fallout 3 (auto selects medium grafics) no lag
2 Virtua tennis 2009 (minimum requirements pentium 2.8 core duo) max detail= No lag
3 Burnout Paradise island= standard detail: There is some lag with many cars having multiple accidents but its not annoying.

Further note:

Untrue:
1 Some more benchmark testing- there is no 'bottlenecking' or loss of performance as is suggested here to the card. The card works at full speed giving me the max grafics possible instead of popular believe.
2 Slower processor limits any higher detail level.

True:
The slower processor limits max detail in heavy duty games. For the full newest gaming experience: update the motherboard and get a faster chip.

Conclusion:
For 80 euro's this is a very nice card for an older board and saves me the issues of having to build a new pc. The 3.06 HTchip is fast enough to not limit the newer games in such a way there is nothing left of the experiance.

NOTE: This is of course no solution for a hardcore gamer, put that in perspective! But for just for fun gaming with not poor overall performance as is suggested this is acctually a good solution.

My advice to noobs: If you are running an P4 system watch out. there might be considerable difference in my chip with yours. since im running a 3.06ghz HT (LM2 2x512kb) chip, only use this info if you have a chip that is faster since there is no telling in what your chip can handle!

[fuel]

Thanks all for your replies and insights!!

-results ps the chip wasnt overclocked when tested.

[Dippyskoodlez]

Originally Posted by fuel

Untrue:
1 Some more benchmark testing- there is no 'bottlenecking' or loss of performance as is suggested here to the card. The card works at full speed giving me the max grafics possible instead of popular believe.
2 Slower processor limits any higher detail level.

If the slower CPU limits higher detail, how is that not bottlenecking?

That is the EXACT definition of bottlenecking.

[Sir_Real]

Originally Posted by fuel

Untrue:
1 Some more benchmark testing- there is no 'bottlenecking' or loss of performance as is suggested here to the card. The card works at full speed giving me the max grafics possible instead of popular believe.

You gotta be kidding yeah To say a HD3850 on AGP 4x & a socket 478 P4 3.06 isn't bottle necked is ridiculous.

My socket 478 P4 rig ( Dont own it any more ) was made up of all best components money could buy at that time. But even that couldn't run a AGP hd3850 at its max. I'd say it was pushin around 75% of what a hd3850 is capable of doing.

My old P4@3.9mhz & HD3850 3dmark2001 score. Crysis, Fallout 3, cod4 all run crap on this rig. Had to keep settings & res low to keep fps from dropping to low. Hence it got sold.

[fuel]

ah i see i understand how you see the term bottlenecking.

i misinterpreted the bottlenecking term.

of course the card doesnt work at the max potential of the card, it works at the max the chip can process. I see u call this bottlenecking now.

I thought u meant bottlenecking was that when running at not its max potential would couse it to have issues and run at a even slower rate than the chip could handle. this it does not.


i dont agree that fallout3 doesnt work however, im playing without lag so far on medium detail. Same for burnout paradise, even running bikes at full speed doesnt create any lag. only when multiple accidents happen but its only marginal.

Dont forget to take this in account:

NOTE: This is of course no solution for a hardcore gamer, put that in perspective! But for just for fun gaming with not poor overall performance as is suggested this is acctually a good solution.