Arctic Silver 5 issues

[peche]

Sup Fellas,

I wanted to share my new results after I re-paste my CPU,
I have been using the stock paste of my water 3.0 Pro for 3-4 months, it really suck …worst paste ever,
then I re-pasted my CPU with the Arctic Crap 5, I cleaned out everything before re-paste,
pressure and pea size method, then I tested my system, I don’t like synthetic tests, I tested myself playing, music video and some graphics work,

Here are the temps:

Before: Stock gray grease pre-applied on waterblock

· Idle: 31C @Day / 30 @Night
· Load: 71C @Day / 68 @Night

After: Arctic Silver 5, Pea Size on CPU IHS

· Idle: 34C & 36C @Day / 28 & 31 @Night
· Load: 62 & 66C @Day / 45 & 61 @Night

Hardware:

Processor: intel i7 3770 / Socket FCLGA1155 |
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 Rev. 1.1 |
Cooling: Thermaltake Water 3.0 Pro //



My temps are not stable, they may vary without a reason but the important thing here is that I have better temps at full load, compared to the old ones, its obvious that Arctic Crap have not cure yet, so temps are unstable because of curing time,

I decided to give max 2 weeks of curing time to it, playing every night at least 1 hour, music and videos for no less than 30min, this week I have plenty of graphical work to do so I will take advantage of it for testing it, if the unstable temps stills I will re-paste with Coolermaster Ice Fusion compound,

PD: @home I have a full graphic of temps behavior on Idle and load, as far as I get home I will upload it, I wish my local store had Arctic Cooling MX4/MX2 but they don’t,

Friday I'll be ordering it with Coolaboratory Liquid Pro and Arctic MX, im delidding my processor soon!


Regards,

 

[ruff0r]

Friday I'll be ordering it with Coolaboratory Liquid Pro and Arctic MX, im delidding my processor soon!

Liquid pro is very good when it comes to temps but very bad when it comes to changing coolers.

If you order that i would highly recommend ordering Coollaboratory Liquid MetalPad as well, I tested both liquid and Pad ,Temps are nearly identical 1-2c° diff on my own testing which i consider errors while applying or uneven applying.

But the PAD version is so easy to remove.

 

[jboydgolfer]

AS5 has treated ME VERY well for years, i personally dont use the "pea method" but I use AS5 on My GPU and water block , and My temps are Always respectable. even @ 4.5Ghz.

sucks it didnt work for you, maybe try spreading it next time.

 

[Liquid Cool]

I'm stuck in the past....love MX-2, it's always treated me right. It's cheap on eBay and they ship fast.

Best,

Liquid Cool

 

[Schmuckley]

As an alternative to liquid pro you could use Gelid Extreme..
MX-4 is pretty good.
Myself,..I can't fool around with stuff like that./.I order 1 of these every 4 mos or so:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100018
I don't always clean and do a fresh reapply every time I change..maybe every 3x.

 

[GreiverBlade]

Gelid GC Extreme ... (i usualy use MX4 ... ) but yep for delidding Coolaboratory liquide metal is a must

 

[peche]

AS5 has treated ME VERY well for years, i personally dont use the "pea method" but I use AS5 on My GPU and water block , and My temps are Always respectable. even @ 4.5Ghz.
sucks it didnt work for you, maybe try spreading it next time.

dude even Arctic crap site says that Pea Size method its the best for Arctic crap 5,

I'm stuck in the past....love MX-2, it's always treated me right. It's cheap on eBay and they ship fast.
Best,
Liquid Cool

actually I'm making my way Arctic silver Compounds, the unique thing I really like its arctic clean, I have heard pretty interesting facts about Arctic Cooling MX series,

As an alternative to liquid pro you could use Gelid Extreme..
MX-4 is pretty good.
Myself,..I can't fool around with stuff like that./.I order 1 of these every 4 mos or so:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100018
I don't always clean and do a fresh reapply every time I change..maybe every 3x.

Where do you recomend to Use Gelid ?
CPU die or CPU IHS?

Liquid pro is very good when it comes to temps but very bad when it comes to changing coolers.
If you order that i would highly recommend ordering Coollaboratory Liquid MetalPad as well, I tested both liquid and Pad ,Temps are nearly identical 1-2c° diff on my own testing which i consider errors while applying or uneven applying.
But the PAD version is so easy to remove.

i will use coollaboratory just for CPU Die, over the IHS arctic MX4 will be used,


Regards,

 

[GreiverBlade]

btw Arctic cooling is Arctic now but not Arctic Silver ...
Arctic originally AC produce the MX-2 MX-4 i hate the confusion between the 2 brand (while AC is swiss AS is not xD )

dunno why AS5 (or any past they produce) has so much recommendation when i see thread like that and also by my own experience
as for the cleaner yep its good, but i prefer Phobya cleaner instead ...

as for delidding and GC extreme : no ... for me delidding is a pointless and dangerous manipulation, when the GC extreme or the Mx-4 works perfectly on IHS (also because i have a 4690K ... )

so yep if you delid the CPU use CL LM P die and MX-4 or GC extreme IHS

 

[peche]

btw Arctic cooling is Arctic now but not Arctic Silver ...
Arctic originally AC produce the MX-2 MX-4 i hate the confusion between the 2 brand (while AC is swiss AS is not xD )

gotcha...
Arctic Silver / Arctic Silver5= AS5
Arctic Cooling = AC

dunno why AS5 (or any past they produce) has so much recommendation when i see thread like that and also by my own experience
as for the cleaner yep its good, but i prefer Phobya cleaner instead ...

i dont know either why so many people loves this crap...

as for delidding and GC extreme : no ... for me delidding is a pointless and dangerous manipulation, when the GC extreme or the Mx-4 works perfectly on IHS (also because i have a 4690K ... )

A new adventure lowering temps...

so yep if you delid the CPU use CL LM P die and MX-4 or GC extreme IHS
still it's astonishing a ivy 3770K is like that ... they tend to run cooler than 4770K

let me see if i understand:
user coollaboratory Liquid metal Pro on CPU die, then use AC Mx or Gelid on CPU IHS?
if im ok thats exactly what i have said before...

Regards,

 

[unclewebb]

dude even Arctic crap site says that Pea Size method its the best for Arctic crap 5,

http://www.arcticsilver.com/intel_application_method.html

For all Intel Core i desktop CPUs, from 1st Gen to 4th Gen, Arctic Silver recommends using a vertical line and not the Pea Size method.

Your CPU is running well under the thermal throttling temperature. As long as it is running reliably, it doesn't make any difference whether it runs at 60°C or 70°C or 80°C or even 90°C. Intel rates the 3rd Gen CPUs to run reliably up to their thermal throttling temperature which isn't until 105°C.

Delidding might get you another 100 MHz of overclocking headroom. It is hard to notice a difference when you increase your CPU speed by 2%.

 

[FireFox]

delidding is a pointless and dangerous manipulation

I respect what you said about delidding but at the same time I disagree with you.

Pointless?
Absolutely not.

Dangerous?
Yes it's.

 

[peche]

http://www.arcticsilver.com/intel_application_method.html

For all Intel Core i desktop CPUs, from 1st Gen to 4th Gen, Arctic Silver recommends using a vertical line and not the Pea Size method.

Your CPU is running well under the thermal throttling temperature. As long as it is running reliably, it doesn't make any difference whether it runs at 60°C or 70°C or 80°C or even 90°C. Intel rates the 3rd Gen CPUs to run reliably up to their thermal throttling temperature which isn't until 105°C.

Delidding might get you another 100 MHz of overclocking headroom. It is hard to notice a difference when you increase your CPU speed by 2%.

shit .. should i re-apply it?

 

[peche]

this is how temps are on idle, take look...

 

[OneMoar]

delidding isn't worth the risk unless you have a 'golden chip'

 

[xfia]

http://www.arcticsilver.com/intel_application_method.html

For all Intel Core i desktop CPUs, from 1st Gen to 4th Gen, Arctic Silver recommends using a vertical line and not the Pea Size method.

Your CPU is running well under the thermal throttling temperature. As long as it is running reliably, it doesn't make any difference whether it runs at 60°C or 70°C or 80°C or even 90°C. Intel rates the 3rd Gen CPUs to run reliably up to their thermal throttling temperature which isn't until 105°C.

Delidding might get you another 100 MHz of overclocking headroom. It is hard to notice a difference when you increase your CPU speed by 2%.

Section 6 - Throttle Temperature

Also called "Tj Max" (Tjunction Max), this is the Thermal Specification that defines the Core temperature at which the processor will Throttle (reduce clock speed) to protect against thermal damage. Although Intel's Core i processors are capable of operating above 90C, we also know that excessive heat kills electronics. Sustained Core temperature greater than 80C is too hot for stability or processor longevity.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html
60-90c has quite a bit of a difference in operation and is explained in detail.

 

[Steevo]

Section 6 - Throttle Temperature

Also called "Tj Max" (Tjunction Max), this is the Thermal Specification that defines the Core temperature at which the processor will Throttle (reduce clock speed) to protect against thermal damage. Although Intel's Core i processors are capable of operating above 90C, we also know that excessive heat kills electronics. Sustained Core temperature greater than 80C is too hot for stability or processor longevity.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html
60-90c has quite a bit of a difference in operation and is explained in detail.

If a CPU is designed to run hotter it poses no change to the life expectancy in the real world, running 80C will only increase voltage leakage, which lowers the actual voltage available to do work and thus the highest stable overclock.

CPU/GPU's may run over 100C under full load, the issues some correlate with high CPU or GPU temps were caused NOT by actual damage to the silicon core, but to the older formula solder which was brittle and could crack the solder joints under varying temps.

Laptops and other mobile devices, let alone harsh environment devices (featuring Intel, ARM, and other chips) are rated to high temps without issues due to their other components being hardier, not the silicon itself.

 

[OneMoar]

Section 6 - Throttle Temperature

Also called "Tj Max" (Tjunction Max), this is the Thermal Specification that defines the Core temperature at which the processor will Throttle (reduce clock speed) to protect against thermal damage. Although Intel's Core i processors are capable of operating above 90C, we also know that excessive heat kills electronics. Sustained Core temperature greater than 80C is too hot for stability or processor longevity.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html
60-90c has quite a bit of a difference in operation and is explained in detail.

pretty sure uncleweb knows the limits of the chips considering hes the author of throttle-stop. and realtemp you are preaching to the preacher
and @ stock sustained 90c is fine. we don't need to like it but its fine

 

[xfia]

well the guide was written by a intel thermal specialist for desktop cpu's. the high throttle temps stop from immediate damage but running anywhere near that temp daily is not really a good thing as explained.
since steevo is talking about gpu's it might be worth noting that nv uses 80c for the target temp.

 

[Steevo]

Don't triple post.

http://ark.intel.com/products/65719/Intel-Core-i7-3770-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz?q=3770

105C Max temp, nowhere does it say it has to run anything other than below that.

Everyone here understands the issues with smaller die size, as it relates to thermal flux, but ther is no issue running it at 80C or 60C as long as its stable, no degredation will occur at stock voltages as guaranteed by Intel.

OP's issue was the seeming over application of AS5, a pea size amount is way too much for that CPU, I still use it and do a haze of compound on the IHS and heatsink, then a rice grain size line down the middle.

 

[unclewebb]

Computronix on Tom's Hardware and I used to talk during the Core 2 Duo days but a lot has changed since then. Intel's Core i technology can run reliably, fully overclocked, at far higher temperatures than the Core 2 technology could manage. My recommendations are based on information in the Intel datasheet.

The 3rd Gen Core i7 desktop CPU will start to thermal throttle at 105°C. Intel says that at 105°C, the CPU has reached "the maximum safe operating temperature". The thermal shutdown temperature is usually in the 125°C to 130°C range. Intel knows their stuff. If their RMA box was filling up with heat baked processors it would be easy enough for them to significantly lower the thermal throttling temperature. Since the 2nd Gen 65nm Core 2 Duo was released, the majority of their CPUs have been in the 95°C to 105°C range.

peche's original post shows a load temp of 66°C so there is no need to hunt down the best thermal paste and definitely no need to delid. There are better pastes than AS5 now but in the majority of cases, reducing your CPU core temps by a handful of degrees really isn't going to make any difference.

 

[xfia]

yeah peche's temps are def within a area that needs no debate..

could it be computronix is referring to turbo boost temps? what do you really think about him saying 80c is to hot for stability and longevity?

 

[R-T-B]

Ironically, in my experience I use this stuff and it performs as good as if not better than AS5:

http://www.alliedelec.com/gc-electronics-10-8109/70159792/

You can also buy it by the pound jar for less than $30 a jar. Price a pound of AS5 and you'll probably have a high end GPU on your hands for the same amount.

It's very easy to spread in my experience using a simple discardable credit card. It is intended for high heat applications such as (I quote from the label) "heatsinks on radios, electronics, and tractors"

I'm not sure what kind of heatsink a tractor uses, but I'm sure it's hefty. It works a treat on a CPU heatsink too, never had any trouble and it does NOT conduct electricity, performs pretty darn good, and is WAY cheaper than AS5 or any specialty compound.

 

[GreiverBlade]

shit .. should i re-apply it?

no you shouldn't ... toss it in the trash, for instance running at 4.6 in any cpu intensive task (or OCCT) i never got above 43° and i use the GC extreme and pea size method... a full vertical stripe in the middle ? well that's a good commercial recommendation to make you use more TIM than other on a 3.5g syringe on opposite to the concurrent in 4g (and also cheaper in many cases)

well delidding is not pointless, if temps are not fine ... (so in my case it would be pointless)

do not buy list:
-Arctic Silver
-Star
-Spire
-and GD Brand OEM (tho they work fine as a backup if short on other past)

recommended
-Thermalright Chill Factor 2
-Prolimatech PK-3
-Phobya HE Grease Extreme

highly recommended
-Arctic (cooling) MX-4
-Gelide GC Extreme

not mentioning AS say the AS5 has a curing time? well all other say they don't have one (or a shorter one), also price to price and versus quantity they are under what other offer (AS5 might have been good at launch day indeed) and when they beat other past, what's the margin? 1° +/- yep ...

Ironically, in my experience I use this stuff and it performs as good as if not better than AS5:

http://www.alliedelec.com/gc-electronics-10-8109/70159792/

You can also buy it by the pound jar for less than $30 a jar. Price a pound of AS5 and you'll probably have a high end GPU on your hands for the same amount.

It's very easy to spread in my experience using a simple discardable credit card. It is intended for high heat applications such as (I quote from the label) "heatsinks on radios, electronics, and tractors"

I'm not sure what kind of heatsink a tractor uses, but I'm sure it's hefty. It works a treat on a CPU heatsink too, never had any trouble and it does NOT conduct electricity, performs pretty darn good, and is WAY cheaper than AS5 or any specialty compound.

containing Zinc Oxide ... not a ... r.. oh well AS5 contain also some metalic oxide (but AS assure it's non conductive so we're safe)

a pea size amount is way too much for that CPU

funny when i read pea size i always see a rice grain sized pea .... and most user see so ... since obviously a pea is kinda big... most user mix pea and rice xD no one with half a brain will put a grain of TIM the size of a pea on a cpu (indeed it's too much)
and i don't think the issue is with the application but with the hype over that TIM he thought he could see direct improvement asap but AS5 has a long cycle before it does so (while as i said MX line GC or other i use have none)

on a second look your temps are fine (or mine are wrong ... and i can put the Phobya HE Grease Extreme in the "do not buy list" )

and i use a custom water loop (separated from GPU )

let's say your only issue is to expect lower than 34° temps and got AS5 for that purpose. (correct me if i am wrong xD )

 

[R-T-B]

containing Zinc Oxide ... not a ... r.. oh well AS5 contain also some metalic oxide (but AS assure it's non conductive so we're safe)

Considering I've gotten gobs of that stuff on my mobo when a tube got uh... excited, I really think it's nonconductive in practice if not in ingredients. They also advertise it as such in the datasheet.

What exactly you were trying to say inbetween the periods eludes me though...

 

[Jetster]

Someone pointed out that AS5 recommend in the instructions for a vertical line. They also recommend to "Tint" the paste and then there is little burn in time in the same instruction sheet. But really any of these pastes are fine and there is only about 7c from the worst to the best.

Health risks with AS5
http://www.arcticsilver.com/PDF/thermcom/AS5_MSDS_3.pdf