[Laptop] Seagate Hybrid vs WD Black2 vs CD-drive caddy

[xvi]

Alright. Have a Dell Inspiron 1764 which has one drive bay, one optical bay. I've been thinking about giving it a SSD to speed up boot and general usage, but would also like some storage space. General usage is mainly Google Chrome and random utilities mixed with a healthy dose of Steam games. Gets put to sleep often and travels a bit.

Specs are what it was from the factory, minus a CPU upgrade.
Intel Core i5-560M
Western Digital Scorpio Blue WD3200BEVT
2x2GB PC3-8500f
Mainly Win 7 or 8, Linux unlikely

My plan was to either go with a Seagate Hybrid 1TB drive (~$80 all day), a WD Black2 120GB/1TB SSD/HDD (Newegg ShellShocker $110), or an eBay Optical Drive HDD caddy and a cheap SSD (~$6 + SSD). Open to other ideas.

Seagate Hybrid 1TB ($80)
Pros: Cheapest single-bay option, SSD caches entire drive, ease of use/compatibility.
Cons: 120GB less space than the WD Black2, performance is low.

WD Black² 120GB + 1TB ($110)
Pros: Greater control over SSD, better HDD speeds.
Cons: Highest priced option, SSD is relatively slow, must be carefully partitioned (possible compatibility issues).

Optical Drive Bay HDD Caddy (~$6 + SSD)
Pros: Cheapest solution if only doing SSD, allows choice of any SSD, can reuse old drive.
Cons: Loss of optical drive, only 320GB of HDD storage if I keep old HDD, Seagate Hybrid cost isn't far off from a normal 1TB drive. Isn't all that cheap if buying new HDD and SSD.

Spoiler: Companion HDD Notes

SAMSUNG Spinpoint M8 ST1000LM024 1TB, $59.99 - $10 instant promo code
WD Blue WD10JPVX 1TB, $64.99

Spoiler: Companion SSD Notes

Mushkin Enhanced ECO2 120GB, $54.99
Kingston SSDNow V300 120GB, $59.45

Leaning towards the WD Black just because it's on sale, but even then, it's not particularly great value. I'm not too worried about losing my optical drive as it seems to be going the way of the floppy anyways. Thoughts?

 

[Kursah]

Honestly what I would do is use an SSD for the main OS and programs, then get a USB3 HDD for other programs and data. There is a 1TB Toshiba for $59 shipped on Amazon. USB3 is 5Gbps vs Sata3 6Gbps. I have done this same thing for other laptops, Macbooks, Linbooks, etc...works amazingly well.

I have heard mixed reviews with the WD Black2's....though maybe the new gen ones are better.

I run an SSHD in my Dell 3540, got it on a sale...and while it helps OS boot times a little, that's about it...honestly not much difference beyond that. The price was actually cheaper than the non-SSHD when I bought it so that's what led to that.

You can do the ODD Caddy, I've contemplated that too..thing to keep in mind here is that the drive will always be on, most laptop firmwares do not have an idle power option for the dvd drive so when you slap an HDD there, while it may idle down on its own control circuit, there is no low power state when it enters that mode and reports it. So your battery consumption will be negated.

Honestly I'd slap a cheap SSD and get a cheap USB3 HDD and be done with it. You need a 120GB for an OS drive (I dual boot Win 8.1/Ubuntu on mine + programs), those are cheap...you could possibly get this all done for sub $150 and have a much speedier system.

 

[newtekie1]

First I'd like to point out that some laptops won't boot from an SSD in one of those Optical Caddies. Not too big of a deal breaker though, if this happens you just put the SSD inside the laptop and your larger storage HDD in the caddy.

Second, the Seagate SSHDs are pretty snappy, I've got 2, but there is no comparison to an actual SSD.

At that price the WD Black2 is a really tempting idea. You get the 120GB SSD for your OS and a few programs/games, and the HDD for storage and larger games.

Honestly what I would do is use an SSD for the main OS and programs, then get a USB3 HDD for other programs and data.

I think the problem with that is his laptop doesn't have any USB3.0 ports, only USB2.0. USB2.0 is way to slow to load games from.

 

[Kursah]

The SSHD's might be snappy, but its no night and day difference in average system use, I have one in my main rig and one in my laptop and one in the kids' gaming rig. A decent mainstream HDD is just-as fast in most things aside from OS boot after a few runs. The 8GB SSD cache helps a little, as I have said, I notice it with OS boot...that's about it really. But that is handy. Beyond that, the "seat of the pants" feels no different than a standard HDD imho. Totally no comparison to an SSD, but that should be expected.

My bad on just assuming that laptop had USB3 lol, didn't research it. That changes everything...I'd go with a dvd caddy HDD for storage, SSD for primary in that case. I wouldn't go with that other WD...my question is...what happens when one drive fails, how does the logic board handle it, can you still use the other drive seeing as they are ID'd separately? I would hope so. Every WD Black drive I've owned has gone bad or started having SMART issues within 1-year of use. I'm more leery about those. My experience is likely different from many though.

 

[xvi]

get a USB3 HDD

I think the problem with that is his laptop doesn't have any USB3.0 ports, only USB2.0. USB2.0 is way to slow to load games from.

Sadly true. Should have mentioned it in the original post. Only have SATA II, so 300MB/s is it for me too.

I have heard mixed reviews with the WD Black2's....though maybe the new gen ones are better.

Hmm. Most of the poor reviews on Newegg is in regard to the cloning software. I'd definitely be installing fresh, so I'll hopefully avoid that mess. Do you recall what the issues were? They accomplish the SSD+HDD trick by making the OS think it's just one big partition. The WD software included then creates two partitions with the split right at the point where the SSD transitions over to the HDD. I assume that can be done manually, but it just seems odd.
To borrow from Anandtech, here's a properly partitioned WD Black2:

I wouldn't go with that other WD...my question is...what happens when one drive fails, how does the logic board handle it, can you still use the other drive seeing as they are ID'd separately? I would hope so. Every WD Black drive I've owned has gone bad or started having SMART issues within 1-year of use. I'm more leery about those. My experience is likely different from many though.

I was wondering that too. Sadly, the OS is completely blind to the fact that it's a SSD and HDD (which makes me wonder how TRIM is handled). It's a complicated solution and seems there's more things that could fail (in an increasingly spectacular way). On the other hand, it does have a 5 year warranty and I won't have anything critical on it, but I know the process of RMAing something is rarely fun. I've had similar luck with WD drives. It's also a cheaper option than a half-decent 1TB HDD and a good 120GB SSD and I could keep my ODD. Decisions!
Edit: Anandtech confirms TRIM does work, albeit not quickly. It must advertise the whole drive as TRIM-capable and then only listen to sectors in the SSD range.

The SSHD's might be snappy, but its no night and day difference in average system use

Boot times (or rather resume-from-sleep times) are a main concern. The current drive has been trashing constantly during these times. I was thinking that while write performance likely improves significantly, I can't imagine one can cache a whole lot of data for read (even if prediction was spot-on.)

First I'd like to point out that some laptops won't boot from an SSD in one of those Optical Caddies. Not too big of a deal breaker though, if this happens you just put the SSD inside the laptop and your larger storage HDD in the caddy.

Huh. Silly Dell. Why can't SATA just be SATA?

 

[krusha03]

I had a similar dilemma a while back and I decided to go the SSD + HDD + caddy route since I wasn't using the DVD drive anyway. I took a 5400rpm hdd as to have reduced vibration, noise and better battery life time. My M4500 boots from the caddy no problem but i still put the SSD inside so i can switch between hdd and DVD in the off chance i need it.

For you the price now it's not so different between this or the wd black, but I would maybe even go for a 256GB drive and leave your old HDD for now in the caddy

 

[dorsetknob]

Cons: Loss of optical drive, only 320GB of HDD storage if I keep old HDD,

Is the optical drive hot swappable with a hdd caddy
if it is that's a Pro and not a con
If the optical drive is hot swappable then you would not be loosing it

 

[xvi]

I picked up the WD Black2 since it seemed like a good price and will probably give it a try in the laptop, but I'll likely swap to a SSD and caddy in the future (or maybe both SSD and WD Black2. I could software raid the two SSD partitions! ). Sig rig has a M4 250GB that would probably work nicely (it's a bit slower, but will still max out a SATA II port), but it'll need to move everything off of it.

Is the optical drive hot swappable with a hdd caddy
if it is that's a Pro and not a con
If the optical drive is hot swappable then you would not be loosing it

It's SATA, so it should be. I've even hot-swapped IDE back in the day. I've got machines with optical drives in them. I usually just copy whatever I need to a flash drive and use that instead. Hot-swapping is a good idea though!

For you the price now it's not so different between this or the wd black, but I would maybe even go for a 256GB drive and leave your old HDD for now in the caddy

That's kind of what made me nab the WD Black (for now).
I've got the current HDD full to the brim with Steam games, but I think I'd actually be okay with only having 320GB of space on a storage drive. Moving the OS and a healthy chunk of programs to a SSD should clear up some space too.

 

[dorsetknob]

It's SATA, so it should be. I've even hot-swapped IDE back in the day. I've got machines with optical drives in them. I usually just copy whatever I need to a flash drive and use that instead. Hot-swapping is a good idea though!

Damm the extra expense get the caddy anyway at the end of the day its a worthwhile and useful upgrade to the laptop.
If you Have not got it you can't explore the option's it would give you and you said its only $6

 

[xvi]

Damm the extra expense get the caddy anyway at the end of the day its a worthwhile and useful upgrade to the laptop.
If you Have not got it you can't explore the option's it would give you and you said its only $6

Oh yeah. Despite getting the WD Black2, I'm definitely also getting a caddy. I rarely use the ODD, so spending $6 to load it up with drives seems like a no-brainer. Even if it's just to keep the old drive around.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

Of course NE puts a 960GB SSD up for $285 the next day.

 

[Mighty_Miro_WD]

I was wondering that too. Sadly, the OS is completely blind to the fact that it's a SSD and HDD (which makes me wonder how TRIM is handled). It's a complicated solution and seems there's more things that could fail (in an increasingly spectacular way). On the other hand, it does have a 5 year warranty and I won't have anything critical on it, but I know the process of RMAing something is rarely fun. I've had similar luck with WD drives. It's also a cheaper option than a half-decent 1TB HDD and a good 120GB SSD and I could keep my ODD. Decisions!
Edit: Anandtech confirms TRIM does work, albeit not quickly. It must advertise the whole drive as TRIM-capable and then only listen to sectors in the SSD range.

Boot times (or rather resume-from-sleep times) are a main concern. The current drive has been trashing constantly during these times. I was thinking that while write performance likely improves significantly, I can't imagine one can cache a whole lot of data for read (even if prediction was spot-on.)

Hi there!

I would like to answer your question about what happens if the Black Dual drive fails. Basically there are 3 options:

1) The drive fails completely – if the drive fully fails, then it is just like any other hard drive. Both the SSD and HDD will not be accessible and if the user needs data, they will need to contact a data recovery company.

2) SSD reaches its write life – in case the SSD reaches it write life, just like any other SSD, it will go into read-only mode. An SSD’s life is only with writing and not reading so you will most likely not be able to boot from the drive since Windows does writing to a drive during boot. However, you can use the drive as a secondary HDD on SATA, or possibly a USB-to-SATA adapter and access the data. The drives HDD could then be used for storage if you still wants to use the drive - only the SSD would be affected.

3) The HDD partition fails – If there is a mechanical or other failure that just affects the HDD, the SSD should work fine since it is a separate drive. If you need the data stored on the HDD, then you may have to contact a data recovery company.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

 

[xvi]

Hi there!

I would like to answer your question about what happens if the Black Dual drive fails. Basically there are 3 options:

1) The drive fails completely – if the drive fully fails, then it is just like any other hard drive. Both the SSD and HDD will not be accessible and if the user needs data, they will need to contact a data recovery company.

2) SSD reaches its write life – in case the SSD reaches it write life, just like any other SSD, it will go into read-only mode. An SSD’s life is only with writing and not reading so you will most likely not be able to boot from the drive since Windows does writing to a drive during boot. However, you can use the drive as a secondary HDD on SATA, or possibly a USB-to-SATA adapter and access the data. The drives HDD could then be used for storage if you still wants to use the drive - only the SSD would be affected.

3) The HDD partition fails – If there is a mechanical or other failure that just affects the HDD, the SSD should work fine since it is a separate drive. If you need the data stored on the HDD, then you may have to contact a data recovery company.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

Woah! Thanks for the info! Doing a bit of googling, it looks like the standard array of SSD SMART attributes is available and visible. I assume the HDD portion has all the SMART attributes available as well. Mainly just want to be able to watch for signs of pre-failure. I suppose I'll find out soon enough. Thanks again!

 

[krusha03]

Hi there!

I would like to answer your question about what happens if the Black Dual drive fails. Basically there are 3 options:

1) The drive fails completely – if the drive fully fails, then it is just like any other hard drive. Both the SSD and HDD will not be accessible and if the user needs data, they will need to contact a data recovery company.

2) SSD reaches its write life – in case the SSD reaches it write life, just like any other SSD, it will go into read-only mode. An SSD’s life is only with writing and not reading so you will most likely not be able to boot from the drive since Windows does writing to a drive during boot. However, you can use the drive as a secondary HDD on SATA, or possibly a USB-to-SATA adapter and access the data. The drives HDD could then be used for storage if you still wants to use the drive - only the SSD would be affected.

3) The HDD partition fails – If there is a mechanical or other failure that just affects the HDD, the SSD should work fine since it is a separate drive. If you need the data stored on the HDD, then you may have to contact a data recovery company.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

What TBW is the SSD rated at? Couldn't find this info anywhere

 

[xvi]

First I'd like to point out that some laptops won't boot from an SSD in one of those Optical Caddies. Not too big of a deal breaker though, if this happens you just put the SSD inside the laptop and your larger storage HDD in the caddy.

Well, you were right. I can confirm that the Dell Inspiron 1764 does not want to boot from a HDD in the ODD slot. Moved it to the internal bay and all is well. Good call, tekie.


Having a pretty big issue though. I used the included WD utility to partition the drive, then did a fresh install of Windows 10 Tech Preview to SSD partition and set the remaining 1TB partition as just storage. Worked well for a while, but woke up to a BSOD one morning.
(sorry for potato)

Spoiler: Error code: 0x0000000F

Fired up Win10 install media (via USB), recovery, command prompt. check diskpart, it sees the SSD partition as RAW, but the mechanical partition just fine as NTFS.

Spoiler

Disk 0 = WD Black2
Disk 1 = Integrated card reader
Disk 2 = USB drive with install media on it

Run chkdsk on drive E, it says "Hey, boot sector is corrupt, but the backup boot sector is fine. I see it as NTFS now and I'll finish up chkdsk."

Spoiler

Check diskpart again, it sees it as NTFS now. Browse drive E in command prompt, all files appear to be there and working fine. I shut down and try to boot to Windows, but get the same BSOD as above. Go back in to recovery/command prompt, diskpart says the drive is back to RAW again, run chkdsk again, it fixes it again, reboot again, BSOD/RAW again. I ran chkdsk with the /r option,

Hopped in to Ubuntu to check SMART health. I'm assuming this drive throws SSD-related SMART attributes and HDD-related SMART attributes together in the same list. Power-on hours is at 2d 3h, overall assessment is "OK", zero reallocated sectors, zero pending sectors, no other non-zero pre-failure values. Short DST completed without errors.
smartctl reports the following unknown attributes w/raw values: (Sorry for using photos instead of copying the text. I'm lazy/busy.)

Spoiler: attributes w/raw values

Google-fu comes up with the following descriptions: (mostly via cropel.com)

7  ||  Seek Error Rate  ||  Frequency of the errors during disk head positioning.
8  ||  Seek Time Performance  ||  Characterizes performance of mechanical seeks of a disk head. An SSD doesn’t use this attribute.
167 || Vendor specific? || ???
168 || Vendor specific? || Possibly SATA PHY error count?
169 || Vendor specific? || Possibly Total bad block count?
170  ||  Reserved Block Count  ||  On an SSD, this attribute describes the state of the reserve block pool. The value of the attribute shows the percentage of the pool remaining. The Raw value sometimes contains the actual number of used reserve blocks.
173  ||  Wear Leveller Worst Case Erase Count  ||  The maximum number of erase operations performed on a single flash memory block.

Alternative source, hddguardian's wiki lists JMicron-specific SMART attributes. Might be most accurate. The Black2 uses a JMicron JMF667H controller, apparently.
hddguardian's Wiki, JMicron SMART attributes:

Attributes table
ID    Hex    Name
01    01    Read Error Rate
02    02    Throughput Performance
03    03    Spin Up Time
05    05    Reallocated Sector Count
07    07    Seek Error Rate
08    08    Seek Time performance
09    09    Power-On hours Count
10    0A    Spin Retry Count
12    0C    Drive Power Cycle Count
168    A8    SATA PHY Error Count
170    AA    Bad Block Count
173    AD    Erase Count
175    AF    Bad Cluster Table Count
192    C0    Unexpected Power Loss Count
194    C2    Temperature
197    C5    Current Pending Sector Counter
229    E5    Halt System, Flash ID
232    E8    Firmware Version Information
233    E9    ECC Fail Record
234    EA    Average Erase Count, Max Erase Count
235    EB    Good Block Count, System Block Count
240    F0    Write Head

Assuming the description I've found is accurate, attribute 173 concerns me greatly. 8.6 million writes on a single cell? All in ~50 hours? Anyone have advice on where to go from here?