System Build Workstation Help $,2000+-

[kayodot]

I am looking for some insight on a workstation build. I am looking to build a system required by the university I attend for Industrial Design Studio. The university has this machine suggested for purchase Dell T5810 Precision Workstation http://imgur.com/ecZlnHD

I have chosen not to go this route, mainly for flexibility purposes and cost, and by cost I mean cost relative to my personal use. If I am to dish out this amount of money on a computer, that isn't even for professional use, it may as well serve personal use and be customized to me. Now I don't have extensive experience on Xeon and Quadro platforms, only from working on similar Lenovo workstations at the university. As for what I am working on software wise, it is Solidworks, Rhino 3D, 3Ds Studio Max, Adobe Indesign and Illustrator.

I think my goal will be to build on a Quadro compatible board, whether I have a Xeon or not, but go with a consumer card instead because I am not convinced I will be encountering such complex enough models to warrant the cost of the Quadro, so I was considering a Titan X instead. If the need for the Quadro is met, I can always purchase one later and still have a consumer card for home use such as gaming. Another big setback I found is the lack of SSD options on this workstation, as well as the unnecessary ECC RAM.

I appreciate any input on this, if anyone has experience using OpenGL based software like Solidworks and Rhino with some of the current consumer cards like Titan X series and or CPUs, or with a mix of either or. Also if anyone suggests a board/cpu that will behave well together for these applications with the option to interchange the GPUs if it becomes necessary. I am mainly looking for flexibility, and the budget can be more or less the same of the workstation. I just rather make a smarter purchase.

Approximate Purchase Date: August 2015

Budget Range: $2,000 give or take, with case and monitor.

System Usage from Most to Least Important: 3D Software, Rendering, Gaming, Personal Use.

Parts Not Required: ECC RAM

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: No Preference. newegg, amazon, microcenter all fine.

Country: US

Parts Preferences: Quadro and Geforce Compatible board and CPU combo.

Overclocking: Not necessary.

SLI or Crossfire: Not necessary.

Monitor Resolution: IPS 1920x1080 min.

Additional Comments: Main goal is to achieve the best performance for the OpenGL software without hindering my flexibility for personal use.

Thank you!

 

[m&m's]

Hi,

Here is an equivalent to your University proposed system: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/FLLwbv -> Total: $1547.45
If you really need a media card reader, you can get the Rosewill RCR-IC001 for $8.

Since I don't know a lot about monitors, I'll let members with more knowledge about them help you.
Do you need a keyboard and mouse?

You want a Titan X, but it costs $1000 and it will push you out of budget because has I understand it, you have a budget of $2000 for the computer and the monitor. Unless you want to drop to an i5 (which I wouldn't consider for a Workstation build) you can't fit a Titan X in your budget.

This is what I would do: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/jvGnVn -> Total: $1965.39 but you can save $100 if you pick-up the i7 yourself at Microcenter.

Changed the Xeon 4C/8T for a i7 5820K 6C/12T, added a 250GB SSD and swapped the Quadro to a 980 Ti.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

The biggest question I think you would be asking if you were considering a Quadro card is if you are going to be using FP64 (double precision) as this is gimped on most GeForce cards. I myself have very little experience with openCL and CUDA as most of my work is for x86. If you need DP, the Titan Black can also be an option, but sacrifices a little on gaming performance and the new maxwell features. In my opinion the best option if you are DP reliant for the apps you should probably get a Kepler Quadro card and a Maxwell Geforce GPU for gaming, if you can survive without FP64 just a Geforce card will be enough.

I am not sure what kind of CPU loads you are going to be encountering, but you could save some money by going with a Z97 or Z170 motherboard and a matching i7 (4790k/6700k). Otherwise the 6 core 5820k is a good option, although the extra PCIe lanes are also a good bonus of the 5930k if you are going to be running a GeForce and a Quadro GPU at the same time.

 

[m&m's]

but you could save some money by going with a Z97 or Z170 motherboard and a matching i7 (4790k/6700k)

The i7 5820K is $299.99 at Microcenter, it actually is cheaper than a 4790K right now.

EDIT: Just saw it's $279.99, but still for $20 more the 5820K is way better!

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

When you take into account the price of the motherboard (z97-A vs X99-A) there is still a decent drop in price by going with LGA1150, but you get what you pay for at the end of the day...

 

[m&m's]

You're right, you can save $80-100 for a board with the same feature by going LGA1150, you also save ~$40 for DDR3, but I would still buy a 5820K. I wouldn't say that if it only was a gaming machine, but it's a workstation and workstations need CPU POWAAA!1!!1

 

[xvi]

CPU POWAAA!1!!1

+1. The option for overclocking would be there as well. I know OP said it wasn't necessary, but if you have all the parts anyways, you might as well do a very relaxed overclock just to see what extra you can get. I think it would be worth investing in a good CPU cooler just to keep the 6-core beast cool.

Also, welcome to the fourms, @kayodot!

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

You're right, you can save $80-100 for a board with the same feature by going LGA1150, you also save ~$40 for DDR3, but I would still buy a 5820K. I wouldn't say that if it only was a gaming machine, but it's a workstation and workstations need CPU POWAAA!1!!1

That's why I said it depends on his expected CPU workload. There is really no point in the extra cores if he is not going to be using them at all.

There is a reason most people recommend the i5s for gaming setups, you can get basically the same in game performance for less money than with the i7s...

 

[m&m's]

That's why I said it depends on his expected CPU workload. There is really no point in the extra cores if he is not going to be using them at all.
There is a reason most people recommend the i5s for gaming setups, you can get basically the same in game performance for less money than with the i7s...

System Usage from Most to Least Important: 3D Software, Rendering, Gaming, Personal Use.

I hope that my color code helps you.

 

[kayodot]

Thanks for the input. I rather take money away from the consumer card and place it on the board and cpu combo for say, cater to the workstation. So in respect to that I could run a GTX instead of Titan, and reserve for a mid level Quadro in the future if and when the need arises. I have seen a few benchmarks for some GTX in Solidworks but don't recall if any stood out.

CPU workload and double precision, that leaves more in the open from my experience. This is because the CPU renders from 3DS Max are more about precision than speed. I think in my inexperienced opinion that the Xeon would get me by with any home use such as media/gaming, and some even have comparable I was considering a http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117316. That appears to be a respectable clock speed, and the E5 suggested above even higher. I don't know whether I can get comparable from the i5 i7's, because drivers do most of the difference here and I just don't have enough experience.

With the CPU and board, I wanted to prioritize flexibility and to work well whether I have the Quadro or Geforce on. Now the Geforce as you guys pointed out Titan isn't worth the money, I could spend less and get acceptable gaming/OpenGL performance and keep the leftover money for the Quadro. Which GTX or other option I am unsure, and as far as other peripherals. I really don't need anything, mouse keyboard, media readers things like that I can pick and choose from personal preference. I would like a solid case that is easy to move around since this machine will be going to and school with some frequency, and keep it the temps cool specially if I run a Xeon/Quadro at some point, rendering can take time.

 

[m&m's]

If you want a CPU that uses a LGA1150 socket, you need to know that you will be limited to 32GB of RAM and to DDR3. If you need more RAM in the future it just wont be possible with this system since LGA1150 is limited to 4 slots of 8GB each.
It's up to you, do you want to save ~$200 and get a LGA1150 CPU, motherboard and DDR3 RAM or get a comparable LGA2011-V3 system that uses DDR4 and is limited to 64GB of RAM.

Regarding gaming performance, it shouldn't make any difference if it's an i7 or a Xeon or if it uses an LGA1150 socket or LGA2011-V3. All that matters is clock speed, if your Xeon runs at 2GHz it wont give good performance in game, but if it runs at 3.5GHz it will basically give the same performance as a i7 running at 3.5GHz.

I don't get what you're saying about drivers and i7 vs Xeon. Drivers have nothing to do with the fact that you use a Xeon or an i7. The following video will help you understand the differences between a Xeon and an i7.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

If working with anything 3D related you need 3 things.

CPU cores.
RAM.
Professional GPU.

I had a W5000 Firepro card which is essentially a old HD7770
I also had a HD7970.

The W5000 was or special HD7770 was 100-315% faster than the 7970.

You can have okay 3D rendering performance in professional apps with a gaming system. But if you need a workstation build a proper fucking work station.

The first review I ever actually wrote.
http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-firepro-w5000-professional-graphics-card-review_2070

Its sad really because the older FERMI architecture was actually well suited to both gaming and 3D rendering / Professional apps. However Nvidia has since widened the gap between the GeForce and Quadro lines where retail GeForce cards do not really compete. Again you can get buy with a GeForce card but a weaker quadro will unsurprisingly go farther. As for Titan X better off with 980Ti.

To be blunt however the Quadro M6000 = Professional Titan X = 300% or 3x faster than Titan X in for example Iray. This could change with patches etc and driver revisions it will also depend greatly on the year of the software your using. Example 2015 may be just as fast on both however 2012 may be 5x slower on the Titan X vs quadro. If at anytime you need Double precision your Titan X will be slow as balls compared to a true professional card.

Regardless considering I used to do 3D rendering / Modeling and worked with Autodesk Maya / Mudbox / Zbrush etc. you should be okay with a GTX 980Ti. Titan X with its frame buffer is nice but most likely not worth near double the cost.

Another issue to consider, Radeon / Geforce driver issues in professional apps = overlooked and oft forgotten. Took AMD 2 years + to fix an issue with their HD7000 series. Quadro / Firepro get fixes to software issues within hours or days. Not weeks months years. Its all relative.

Grab a Haswell Xeon for LGA1150 get a supporting board as much memory as you can cram on it with a 980Ti and call it a day.

 

[m&m's]

Grab a Haswell Xeon for LGA1150 get a supporting board as much memory as you can cram on it with a 980Ti and call it a day.

Agreed with all you said except the end. You said that he needs CPU cores and a lot of RAM then you point LGA1150 which is limited in cores (4C/8T) and RAM (32GB). Also, why a Xeon?

EDIT: To me a Xeon is worth it when you need a lot of cores 10C+ or a specific feature.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

ECC.

Does shit hit the fan often? No but when it does having ECC can be infinitely useful. I suppose it comes down to importance. How important is the work the OP will be doing. If something goes wrong and he has to start over how much of an impact would that be?

If its not a huge issue then sure. 4770k.

The fact remains while more cores are useful.

X99 with DDR4 on a pricey board with a Xeon would completely destroy the budget so Haswell on LGA1150 offers the better alternative.

Also let me revise LGA1150 board that SUPPORTS ECC as well seems Z97 does not. I had though the ASUS WS boards did but they do not.

 

[m&m's]

Since he said that ECC wasn't required and that X99 + DDR4 + 5820K is within the budget, why not have more cores? And why does nobody seems to care that LGA1150 is limited to 32GB of RAM?

This is what I would do: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/jvGnVn -> Total: $1965.39 but you can save $100 if you pick-up the i7 yourself at Microcenter.

 

[Caring1]

Here's some interesting links that show an AMD Graphics card may be better suited as a dual purpose unit.
http://www.geeks3d.com/20140305/ope...n-hd-7970-surpasses-nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan/

The Table on this page:
http://asteroidsathome.net/boinc/forum_thread.php?id=131&sort_style=&start=20
Proving to me at least that an old HD7970 beats a Titan at least in DP Compute.

 

[Jetster]

Nvidia Geforce works best with OpenGL GTX970 Not Quadro

Okay let me clarify. For the price GeForce is the way to go. You would have to spend $5000 on a Quadro to match the GeForce GTX 970 performance

 

[kayodot]

Where the price doesn't justify the performance, if say if I am merely improving 20fps/points in benchmarks from a 760/980 in OpenGL performance, I may as well get a $250 Consumer card and dump the rest of the budget into a Quadro K2000 or even 4000. Does that make sense? I am not interested in gaming at 4K, or even ultra settings.

Also I am building a workstation, and it is obviously proper as that was established in the first place. The only difference is I wanted a flexible combo to switch to and from consumer/workstation GPU. Is the price to maintain the board/cpu combo DDR4 even doable at this budget? I would like to leave room for improvement with this build, for instance with upgrading RAM, but most of these software are either pushing VRAM or CPU power for rendering and viewport performance so I am not sure I will need to exceed trhe 32GB I intend to start with, but that's where my experience falls short.

Thank you for all the input so far!

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

UNless you push heavy scenes in 3D you wont use 32gb of Memory, 3-6gb of VRAM is enough for in say Mudbox to get up into the 100+ million polygon range and higher while painting on textures. Difference between say Zbrush and Mudbox is Mudbox acts more like Maya and is true 3D while Zbrush tends to be more 2D ish in how it renders during the work flow.

4790k + 32gb of 1600 Mhz + 980Ti will most likely fit your needs. That or skylake when it launches. I only recommend for example ECC / XEON / Firepro / Quadro if your work is 100% needed to be 100% compatible with industry software 100% of the time. Thats why said parts cost so much.

Traiditonal hardware would be 98% compatible vs 100%. While it shouldn't matter you will run into quirks. That said I know many game developers at indie studios just use standard off the shelf hardware. aka Intel i7 non-ECC memory, GeForce / Radeon Graphics.

All this really however matters in what your doing EXACTLY for work.

think something like a small city with lots lights and post processing like a level in a game etc. If going more movie like in the render pipeline with ray tracing you wants lots of core and memory with a quadro / fireGL.
Doing auto cad with full 3D you probably want quadro.
Doing auto cad 2D standard system more than enough.
DOing any kind of Game art / assets a standard system is more than enough.
It depends more on your focus than anything else.

For example I primarily focused on 3D modeling / texturing in which case a standard system with no frills was more than adequate however thats due in part to simplistic scenes or single object modeling etc.

 

[BarbaricSoul]

how does this look for a workstation build?

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/jpNHFT

 

[m&m's]

how does this look for a workstation build?

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/jpNHFT

It would be good for a server (something like ESXI) with 12C/24T because of it's multitasking capabilities. But the cores are too slow for a typical workstation build, it's better to have half the cores running at double the clocks. This way softwares that don't support more than a certain number of cores are less impacted. Also, he wants to be able to game with the build so 1.6GHz would just not be good enough for a lot of single (or dual) threaded games.

 

[Ebo]

I do 3D rendering also in Autocad 3D which can use hypertrading and many cores.

The reason I chose the I7-5820K is because it has 6 cores and 12 treads and supporting the high bandwith of DDR4.

Fore 3D use it blows everything out of the water. Before I had a AMD 8 core system with DDR3 and due to the power of the CPU, it has cut my renderingtime down by almost ½ in every senario.

Fore gaming theres not so much of a difference, but it has all the power I need for anything I can ask of it without bracking the bank.

 

[Freezer]

Ouch, your UNi requires that you purchase your own WS? I have to miss this semester due to shoulder surgery, but the UNi I xfered to provides all the goodies.

I'm in the the same boat though, and looking to upgrade. However, I highly doubt you'll see much benefit with the 5820K vs a 4790K, more cores will only help with loading HUGE project and bim files and does little with rendering. You should also know that your WS will be secondary to rendering if you utilize Autodesk360 granted that you have an .edu addy.

I also wouldn't put too much into a Quadro until after you graduate, have money to burn, or you utilize other software besides Autodesk. An autodesk360 account provides a ton of services to students and rendering services are free. The only drawback is ... how large your file is and your upload speed. HD quality renders in a matter of minutes vs hours with a home WS.

 

[kayodot]

UNless you push heavy scenes in 3D you wont use 32gb of Memory, 3-6gb of VRAM is enough for in say Mudbox to get up into the 100+ million polygon range and higher while painting on textures. Difference between say Zbrush and Mudbox is Mudbox acts more like Maya and is true 3D while Zbrush tends to be more 2D ish in how it renders during the work flow.

4790k + 32gb of 1600 Mhz + 980Ti will most likely fit your needs. That or skylake when it launches. I only recommend for example ECC / XEON / Firepro / Quadro if your work is 100% needed to be 100% compatible with industry software 100% of the time. Thats why said parts cost so much.

Traiditonal hardware would be 98% compatible vs 100%. While it shouldn't matter you will run into quirks. That said I know many game developers at indie studios just use standard off the shelf hardware. aka Intel i7 non-ECC memory, GeForce / Radeon Graphics.

All this really however matters in what your doing EXACTLY for work.

think something like a small city with lots lights and post processing like a level in a game etc. If going more movie like in the render pipeline with ray tracing you wants lots of core and memory with a quadro / fireGL.
Doing auto cad with full 3D you probably want quadro.
Doing auto cad 2D standard system more than enough.
DOing any kind of Game art / assets a standard system is more than enough.
It depends more on your focus than anything else.

For example I primarily focused on 3D modeling / texturing in which case a standard system with no frills was more than adequate however thats due in part to simplistic scenes or single object modeling etc.

I will be doing no animation, it is very very very unlikely I choose to present something animated, though I can if I so wish to, it would just add times for projects. I will mainly be making consumer products, parts, etc. Solidworks and Rhyno3D mainly, 3ds Max for rendering or texturing, may venture into Maya but I personally have never used it so unless the class wants to jump on it for something I probably won't.

The complexity of these projects is ultimately up to my skill level, whether I can build a 3,000 parts model or a 30 part is just up to me. I've found it hard to find true tested information on the advantages of say a Xeon's hyperthreading in Solidworks/Rhyno and 3Ds Max. i7s are right up there with the low end Xeons from a numbers perspective. Video card I don't need for rendering, it is mostly for viewport usage which is very important. I want flexibility, but really just the option to be flexible to switch between cards and upgrade when possible. Also I won't even consider the universities proposed machine, ECC memory and lack of SSD for a personal usage, absolutely atrocious. I wouldn't dump my money on that.

I am ready to purchase, really just trying to narrow down a final board cpu card combo.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

6700K
Z170
16gb memory
256gb SSD minimum
High Capacity HDD
980Ti

If you need more memory drop more in later just grab 2x8gb kit for the time being or grab the Crucial 2133 32kit for $150 ish

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($359.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H5 Universal 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($46.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($149.99 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill Value Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($189.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial BX100 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($119.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB Video Card ($678.00 @ NCIX US)
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro ATX Full Tower Case ($99.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G-750 750W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($99.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($49.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit) ($89.75 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2034.56

using 16gb of memory you can drop below the $2000 budget. regardless the above should prove more than adequate for what your doing. You can also replace the Blu-ray burner with a standard dvd burner or go with no optical drive and just grab a USB one for those odd moments you need one. Your choice on that one. But for any kind of school work a physical backup via disc is always a good idea.