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2ms 'gaming' monitor rubbish for gaming

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by qubit, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    Just got me an Acer V243H monitor from Novatech, billed as one of their own branded monitors, with the description: Novatech 24" Widescreen LCD Gaming Grade Monitor.

    Note the word 'gaming' in there. Anyway, the bloody thing smears and blurs all over the place with even moderate motion and certainly doesn't live up to its 'gaming' claim. As a desktop monitor it's pretty good though.

    Animation is liquid smooth on my old CRT monitor, as you'd expect and I'm looking for an LCD that has this performance.

    I checked out the Iiyama E2607WS-1 at work, which also has a claimed 2ms response time and it's just as bad.

    I'm beginning to think that it's not possible to actually buy an LCD monitor that doesn't ruin motion video, as every LCD screen I've ever seen does this to some degree or another. As I've spent a considerable amount of money on my PC hardware to ensure smooth animation, I'm not going to compromise it by having the monitor ruin it's performance.

    I want to return it and get something that will do my system justice - but what to get?
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  2. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I've never had that problem with my LCD monitors. Perhaps there's something wrong with it?

    *Actually a few years ago I bought a ViewSonic monitor that did that. Returned it, and the monitor that replaced it was fine.
  3. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    No, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just the way it is. In fact every LCD screen I've ever seen does this to some degree or another. The one exception was a 50" LCD TV with 200Hz scanning that was perfect - and £1500... and too big. :laugh:
  4. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    Was it the same model?
  5. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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  6. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes sir. :)
  7. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    Thanks GT, I'll check it out. Also, I'm thinking that if I can't get an LCD that won't smear, I'll just get an expensive one with a higher quality non-TN panel that has a longer response time, but much better colour and viewing angle specs.

    I'll then compromise by keeping the old CRT on my desk just for games and laboriously switching monitors whenever I want to play a game. Sucks, but it seems to be the only option.
  8. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    Now, that does surprise me. I've read that quality can vary a fair bit between different samples of the same model, but I'd not heard of one as dramatic as this. I'll bear it in mind.
  9. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I know nothing about the electronics inside the monitor but ViewSonic said the culprit was a bad mainboard inside the LCD. My current SyncMaster 2493HM has only a 5ms response time and I've never noticed any kind of ghosting. Perhaps your eyes are just used to CRT's and are sensitive to LCD's ghosting.
  10. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    Quite possibly. However, I would put it the opposite way: any fine detail is blurred out of existence on an LCD when the object is in motion - you can't see it, period. Everyone can see this effect, but not everyone has seen a CRT picture in motion, so don't realise that this is actually an unpleasant side effect of LCDs, rather than something normal.

    I do remember once (and I mean a good several years ago) a budget Relysis monitor in a shop, showing some fancy bouncing animated demo that looked really clear and being very surprised at it. So that level of performance should be a piece of cake now, shouldn't it?
  11. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    I'm with you that CRTs are definitely ideal for gaming but I can't find anyone that still makes/sells them. I'm going to have to shell out some $700 for an LCD monitor and graphics card just to keep playing my games. :(

    I dispise LCDs because of the problems you described but, we're in the minority. :(
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  12. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I completely agree. When I did the switch from CRT (A nice Sony Trinitron Model) to LCD I was pretty dissapointed. Honestly I really think I've just learned to live with it. I have yet to see these new 120hz screens, I'm hoping they fare better.
  13. phanbuey

    phanbuey

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    now that you mention it, my LCD blurs like crazy haha... never noticed it before. :laugh:

    Its like that time my friend pointed out screen tearing to me, now I see it all the damn time.
  14. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    V-Sync takes care of the tearing. ;)
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  15. phanbuey

    phanbuey

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    yeah but its too laggy... I'd rather have no input lag and tearing. (you got my 666th thank :rockout:)
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  16. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    60 Hz vs 120 Hz only makes a difference if the original image was rendered at 120 Hz. Need I mention this adds a lot of load to the graphics card(s) for gaming. At this point and time, I'd say 120 Hz and gaming don't mix. Most programming for TVs are also 60 Hz so 120 Hz isn't going to make any difference. So yeah, it's pretty much useless 99% of the time.
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  17. phanbuey

    phanbuey

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    You mean 120FPS? Since your monitor is at 120Hz, everything is rendered at 120Hz.
  18. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    It is the way I meant it. The card has to send an image to the display 120 times a second. Whether or not it is the same image as the last time is up to the frame count.

    120 FPS on a 120 Hz monitor is 1:1--that is, every refresh is a different image than the last. But, most TV is at 24 fps and videos are at 30 fps. On a 60 Hz monitor, they call that the 3:2 pulldown ratio where two out of every three refreshes of the display is actually a image copied from the last. 120 Hz makes the ratio even wider. In effect, it doesn't make much difference until the framerate of the original content goes up (not going to happen any time soon).

    120 Hz refresh rate is to TVs as DVD audio is to music. Both offer more than anyone needs at substantially higher costs.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
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  19. vbx New Member

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    My old Sony LCD monitor (Sony SDM-HS73) has a 20ms response time. This is bad right? Lower number = better?

    Anyways, there is no ghosting or blurring on this monitor.
  20. BumbleBee

    BumbleBee

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    yes

    http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1434467&postcount=23 (bottom paragraph) see if you can find that one locally.

    by the way qubit did you even bother reading the comments in that thread that you started before you made the purchase?

    I don't understand why Gamers decided to get rid of their CRT it's like hey! lets trade in our CRT for LCD Technology we know nothing about it looks dull and washed out with brightness and contrast trickery but it's flat screen so it looks cool! and it's cheaper. bullsh*t a premium LCD cost the same as a premium CRT did 7-10 years ago and now CRT cost chi chi beans.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  21. phanbuey

    phanbuey

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    Alot of people are not so picky about their FPS/sharpness during fast motion - LCD's offer a larger size and look cooler, like you said - most people buy monitors not based on their tech, but the size, appearance, and max resolution, price etc... They only later realize that their games look like soup.

    @Keiran - yeah ur right... 22" CRTs are about the max - those are the ones that will give you a face tan :D.
  22. KieranD

    KieranD

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    a lot of monitors claim to be 2ms but arnt really
    a few problems i have with lcd in general

    AA and AF seem to be a bit better on the crt, refresh rate was higher no screen tears either

    its not like i need more than 60fps but its a shame i have to use v sync

    i dunno its like you an see the squareness of a pixel more clear on a lcd probly means its sharper tho

    i might go back to crt its getting better tho LCD and you can get huge screen sizes when the average on a crt is 19inch
  23. BumbleBee

    BumbleBee

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    the CRT I posted in the link is a 24" that can do 2304x1440 resolution which is scalable is that not big enough?
  24. Robert-The-Rambler

    Robert-The-Rambler

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    I think you guys are overestimating the value of CRT these days

    I have the 24" CRT that is the Sony Trinitron sitting in my closet right now. It supports 2304 * 1440 but good luck getting the full resolution to work. You will be stuck at 1920 * 1200 for some odd reason since nobody has these things anymore and drivers for video cards or monitors don't seem to support this thing properly. The refresh rates are not supported properly so you will not get to use the 2304 * 1440 @ 80hz like you should be able to. It is dim as all hell compared to LCDs and takes a long time to warm up to give its tube a chance to give the proper color output. A good LCD like the HP LP3065 absolutely blows the CRT for everything. I think a lot of what has been discussed in this thread is related to garbage TN panel technology and the flaws in using dithering techniques to simulate true color output. You can get backlight bleed, color banding and any number of annoying features with TN. Get an IPS monitor and don't look back. CRTs are dead. I have the best there ever was and it aint that spectacular. If you are serious about gaming and want it to truly look its best than don't go TN and don't belive the crap that an ultra fast CRT is the answer. That Titanic has already sunk.
    :banghead:
  25. Robert-The-Rambler

    Robert-The-Rambler

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    To add to that

    Gaming without Vsync is insanity!!!!!!!

    It has other benefits like conserving power and reducing heat output. Think of it as setting cruise control at 60 when your car is capable of 220 MPH. Naturally you don't overheat your engine and don't burn quite as much gas.:p

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