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3850 AGP OC'ing, Vmods, experiences, suggestions, where to buy

Discussion in 'AMD / ATI' started by intel igent, Jan 18, 2008.

  1. kiriakost

    kiriakost New Member

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    Well after some testing , i have few ideas to share .

    HD3850 OC adventure .

    With the system in idle , i was testing OC modes , on my VGA.
    With CCC "Catalyst Control center" looked to be an easy task .

    BUT !!

    Unfortunately i found that the ultimate VGA clocks ,
    are very Dependant on the temperature , of the VGA cooler .

    The same successful high clocks , will fail the test ,
    if the VGA are warm , after some time on gaming or benchmarks.

    I got extremely surprised , by noticing how delicate is the balance of heat VS high clocks.

    In my Sapphire card with the stock cooler,
    the combination of high clocks as :
    GPU 700 Memory 830 , was always a qualified combination,
    no matter how hot the cooler was .

    Does it worth to get better VGA cooler ?
    In my case no , at list by thinking about performance gain.
    I plan to replace it , but there no rush , as the stock cooler does the job and has tolerable noise level .

    HD3850 OC adventure Part 2

    I run the "Crysis benchmark" at 1280x1024 medium details, Physics=Low .
    Even with VGA at high clocks , i did not see gain on the fps.
    Some people call this effect as CPU bottleneck .
    By having in mind , that the bottleneck becomes lower on lower resolution, its all about what any one has in his mind to use his system for .
    Personally i do not care , about the top place in the benchmarks score board.

    Conclusion no 2 : "Crysis benchmark" are unrealistic way to judge your systems performance with the game it self.
    The free run of the camera , its not on the game play . ;)

    30/1/2009 9:05:23 πμ - XP
    Beginning Run #1 on Map-island, Demo-benchmark_gpu
    DX9 1280x1024, AA=No AA, Vsync=Disabled, 32 bit test, FullScreen
    Demo Loops=2, Time Of Day= 9
    Global Game Quality: Custom
    Custom Quality Values:
    VolumetricEffects=Medium
    Texture=Medium
    ObjectDetail=Medium
    Sound=Medium
    Shadows=Medium
    Water=Medium
    Physics=Low
    Particles=Medium
    Shading=Medium
    PostProcessing=Medium
    GameEffects=Medium
    ================================================== ============
    TimeDemo Play Started , (Total Frames: 2000, Recorded Time: 111.86s)
    !TimeDemo Run 0 Finished.
    Play Time: 66.18s, Average FPS: 30.22
    Min FPS: 19.85 at frame 1933, Max FPS: 50.00 at frame 991
    Average Tri/Sec: 21033696, Tri/Frame: 696009
    Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 1.32
    !TimeDemo Run 1 Finished.
    Play Time: 57.37s, Average FPS: 34.86
    Min FPS: 19.85 at frame 1933, Max FPS: 50.00 at frame 991
    Average Tri/Sec: 24530608, Tri/Frame: 703675
    Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 1.30
    !TimeDemo Run 2 Finished.
    Play Time: 57.15s, Average FPS: 35.00
    Min FPS: 19.85 at frame 1933, Max FPS: 51.10 at frame 75
    Average Tri/Sec: 24611902, Tri/Frame: 703238
    Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 1.30
    TimeDemo Play Ended, (3 Runs Performed)
     
  2. kiriakost

    kiriakost New Member

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    And now some additional technical info about ram chips , found on my card.

    They are Hynix Semiconductors H5RS5223CFR sub type "N0C"

    H5RS5223CFR-N0C It supports 1GHz speed .
    Max voltage 2.10

    Sapphire can supply max = 1.254 ( Bios info)
    at the core .
    Sapphire default Bios programed voltage = 1.214 at the core .

    So in conclusion , Mem MHz goes as high as the voltage aloud it to go.

    True memory voltage on the PCB its unknown to me , but its risky to find it out too.

    http://www.hynix.com/datasheet/pdf/graphics/H5RS5223CFR(Rev1.4).pdf
    Page 3
     

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    Last edited: Feb 8, 2009
  3. kiriakost

    kiriakost New Member

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  4. mbvl New Member

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    Newbie here.

    I found these forums and this thread while looking into getting one of the subject cards. After much reading I decided to go for it and got a Sapphire 512 AGP 3850 from NewEgg for $109 plus tax and shipping.

    Now I'm at sea. It installed just fine and worked for ordinary stuff from the gitgo. But none of my benchmarks run -- 3DMark03 and 05 freeze at the splash screen, PCMark04 ran once but now freezes, and even 3DMark2001 SE crashed with a BSOD. All this straight out of the box.

    I updated the drivers using Sapphire's 9-1 hotfix. I've "looked at" the card using ATITool, ATI Tray Tools, RivaTuner, CCC, and I've dumped the BIOS. There are inconsistencies amongst the tools as to what the clocks are set at, but everything looks ok.

    If you look at my system specs, you will see that this is basically a four year old system. I haven't really done much tweaking since right after I built it, so I'm more than a bit rusty, but I'm embarrassed that I can't figure out what's wrong.

    Is my system just not capable of handling this card? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Edit: if I try to change the clocks using any of the usual tools, instant BSOD.

    Mark
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
  5. InnocentCriminal

    InnocentCriminal Resident Grammar Amender

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    Welcome to the forums Mark!

    Did you remove the previous drivers first at all? I highly recommend you trying these steps....

    1.) Remove all ATi related software via Add/Remove programs.

    2.) Download CCleaner & also get Driver Cleaner Pro.

    3.) Run CCleaner, remove all the temporary junk that you have and then run the registry cleaner...

    4.) ... reboot

    5.) When prompted enter into your BIOS and check that your AGP transfer rate is set to 8x, (In Catalyst Control Center this is listed as AGP speed) you can also experiment with your AGP Aperture size, I don't know the default, I presume it would be 256MB but if you still experience your BSODs and benchmarking programs not working with one value, try lowering it.

    6.) Another feature to experiment with is AGP Fast Write - sometimes having this enabled can cause instability from my own experiences (I've owned two nForce 2 based motherboards).

    7.) Once you're happy with your BIOS settings, boot back into Windows and run Driver Cleaner Pro. Select everything ATI even if you know you don't have it. This will do a specific registry clean for all things ATi. Once complete, reboot your machine...

    8.) I'd definitely download and install the latest DX9.0c update if you haven't already. Run that before installing the 9.2 drivers.

    9.) I'd also make sure you have the latest .Net software installed and associated hotfixes/service packs. CCC uses 2.0 as a base, so it's also good to install the updates for 2 and work your way up to 3.5 SP1 which I believe is the latest version.

    10.) Once you've installed all the aforementioned and rebooted the appropriate times, I'd then go ahead installing the 9.2 hotfix driver and see where that gets you.

    I hope that helps!
     
    mbvl says thanks.
  6. mbvl New Member

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    Innocent,

    Thank you for your prompt reply. Here's the status of your suggestions.

    I did remove the old driver using CCleaner in Safe Mode. I will try Driver Cleaner Pro -- maybe there is still some registry junk. I did check for AGP 8x in the BIOS and in CCC. The aperture size is still at the default (255) and I think I tried it at 128 also. I will try toggling AGP Fast Write. I do have DirectX 9.0c. I have .Net 3.5. Does 9.2 (from ATI) support AGP or do I have to edit the .inf? (For some reason the Sapphire driver site isn't working just now.)

    Two more quick questions:

    In the MB BIOS the AGP voltage can be set from 1.5 to 1.65. In the VGA BIOS it ranges from 0.974 to 1.254. What am I missing?

    In ATI Tray Tool it says that the BIOS clocks are 669/829, but the current core and memory clocks are set at 13.5. Does that make any sense?

    Thanks again,

    Mark
     
  7. InnocentCriminal

    InnocentCriminal Resident Grammar Amender

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    Not a problem!

    You should be able to download the actual 9.2 AGP hotfix via AMD's support site.

    The AGP voltage in your MB BIOS is for the AGP slot when the VGA BIOS is giving the range for the GPU itself.

    13.5MHz? That doesn't make sense. Hmmm.... are you able to do a screenshot? I'd check Event Viewer as well to see if you're getting any errors created by CCC or anything else ATi or GFX related.
     
  8. instron

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    mbvl set your aperture size as 128 meg,also try 4x agp,set your agp voltage at the highest possible setting.you may end up trying different nforce drivers for stabibility
    ive seen threads before about it.I had problems with a via chipset and i fixed it by changing my agp strength in the bios.I could run in 4x agp mode but 8x crashed .try the 4x setting first if that doesnt work get a newer nforce driver maybe that will help.
     
  9. mbvl New Member

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    Here's what my four tools say about my clocks:
     

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  10. mbvl New Member

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    I did another clean install. I uninstalled the old driver; ran CCleaner; in BIOS checked AGP aperture size (currently 128) and disabled Fast Write; rebooted into Safe Mode; ran Driver Cleaner Pro 1.5 (new version for me); rebooted; updated my DX 9 stuff (there were some newer fixes); installed Sapphire 9.2 (the ATI version wouldn't load -- probably that 9505 vs 9515 thing); rebooted.

    Not much change. Ordinary browsing works just fine. 3DM03 started but crashed at the start of test 2 with BSOD.

    Mark
     
  11. revin

    revin

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    Well I cant get 3DM06 to run on this Vista, but here's a Vantage run

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Drizzt5

    Drizzt5 New Member

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    whats that?
     
  13. Yukikaze

    Yukikaze

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    Just got mine...

    I just got my HD3850 AGP for my P4@4.2Ghz rig since the HD3650 on it wasn't really cutting it. I'll put some benchmarks in the coming days. The HD3650 went into my nostalgic Tualatin rig (What a waste of a GPU, talk about overkill, but it is fun !).
     
  14. Yukikaze

    Yukikaze

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    Some 3DMarks.

    All results at 1440x900, but that's all but identical in the number of pixels to 1280x1024 (98.8% of the pixel count). I just have a 19" monitor hooked up to the P4 currently. Specs in my specs tab, the HD3850 is a Sapphire w/512Mb GDDR3 and it is OC'ed to 715Mhz Core and 945Mhz Mem.

    3DMark03:
    [​IMG]

    3DMark05:
    [​IMG]

    3DMark06:
    [​IMG]
     
  15. InnocentCriminal

    InnocentCriminal Resident Grammar Amender

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    Would you be able to run 3DMark06 at 1280 x 1024 at all Yukikaze, I'd be interested to see your score.

    ^^
     
  16. Yukikaze

    Yukikaze

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    6814 in 3DMark06 at 1280x1024.
     
    InnocentCriminal says thanks.
  17. InnocentCriminal

    InnocentCriminal Resident Grammar Amender

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    Really?

    That's a lot lower than I expect tbh.
     
  18. Yukikaze

    Yukikaze

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    The CPU is a limiting factor here. There is only so much (so little ? hehe) that the P4 will do. Pre-GPU-OC and Post-GPU-OC results are in the same ~6.8k 3DMark06 vicinity, for example.

    It does run Mass Effect at 1440x900 maxed out without a hitch. I'll benchmark games with and without AA next week.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2009
  19. InnocentCriminal

    InnocentCriminal Resident Grammar Amender

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    Cool!
     
  20. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    www.tweakguides.com

    look for Driver Cleanup procedures there aswell, Make sure Direct X is up to date and also pickup the ATI Hotfix 9.2 Driver for AGP cards, you will have to go to AMD knowledgebase to pick them up but you can look under radeon 1950 for the info (AGP drivers are all the same)
     
  21. instron

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    has anybody else got cuda to work with there 3850 agp?Im curious to see if im the only one that has tried it yet.
     
  22. camrcr New Member

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    Hi everyone, got my HD 3850 last week and have been trying to resolve the 9505-9515 problem. I got the drivers working but I have no control over the AGP in smartgart and gpu-z has the card assigned 8x@pci. I have a gigabyte K8U-939 board and single core amd 3700and have tweaked the agp settings all kinds of ways and no luck. Bios problem on the 3850? its the sapphire model, and waiting to hear back from them
     
  23. camrcr New Member

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    nvm i finally figured it out.........works like a champ now.
     
  24. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    so may we have your solution so those who encounter the same problem may be able to fix theirs?
     
  25. kiriakost

    kiriakost New Member

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    All the AMD based boards with AGP , needed the "All in One " AMD patch , to find their way about performance .

    There is no other cure or magic that some one could do .
     

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