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3850 AGP OC'ing, Vmods, experiences, suggestions, where to buy

Discussion in 'AMD / ATI' started by intel igent, Jan 18, 2008.

  1. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    Headsup for All, If you want Win Vista or Win 7 with an AGP ATI/AMD Videocard and AMD X2 and Higher CPU, DO Not Get a NF3 Motherboard, Links I posted earlier states that NV screwed the pooch on support. Via or SIS based motherboards have a Vista Driver that fixed this issue.

    My machine is somewhat screwed too due to no NF2 Win Vista/7 GART.
  2. Jstn7477

    Jstn7477

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    Should I use the 2.20A BIOS or the ones with bigger numbers like 2.36A? Should any of these work fine with a PDC E6600 if they support the PDC E6300 (isn't it just a 1 multiplier difference?)

    Wish my 775Xfire-VSTA (Intel 925X) supported Conroe CPUs but I guess it's too old to.
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  3. TRWOV

    TRWOV

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    The 2.20A should support the PDC 6600 just fine. It should work just fine with the vanilla 2.20 too, it just wouldn't have the microcode update (bugfixes for the CPU).
    Jstn7477 says thanks.
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  4. Jstn7477

    Jstn7477

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    Thanks, I just installed it and it's working with the stock 2.20 BIOS. 3DMark03 in XP is now 33254 (1659 CPU) so the CPU is a step up at least with 2 cores versus the Phenom 9750. Will try OCing although this board hit a wall around 290 with my E6400.
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  5. _JP_

    _JP_

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    You should use the modded BIOS, though. That extra RAM is useful and the PWM curve for the CPU fan is way better. If you're going to OC, don't forget to cool the MOSFETs. :)
  6. TRWOV

    TRWOV

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    ordered a Gelid Icy Vision from China (free shipping!) I'll let you know what good it does to my 3850.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  7. Jstn7477

    Jstn7477

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    After playing with the 4CoreDual-VSTA (which works fine with my PDC E6600), I have noticed that it does not like 4GB of DDR2 among other things. 3DMark01 and 06 all crash when I use 2*2GB DDR2-800 sticks in XP x86 or 7 x64, but 2*1GB Corsair ValueSelect 533s OC'd to 667 work fine.

    My 7800GS artifacts like crazy in Win7 on the 4CoreDual-VSTA, but the 3850 runs great. I haven't been able to get any PCIe cards working, however (7300 LE and GT 440 tried).

    My AM2NF3 is only good for XP x86, as Win7 with the 7800GS + quad core has working video drivers but the card runs in PCI mode. I bought a Sempron 130 combo with a Biostar 760G AM3 board I can use later on for a folding card, and I found a new Foxconn A79S AM2+ on Geeks that I had to grab as AM2+ boards are so rare nowadays. If the Sempron 130 single core clocks decently and avoids the multicore limitation, I may *somewhat* like the AM2NF3. I have a feeling I might just send it to crunch for the rest of its life and if it kicks the bucket fast, whatever. $25 boards FTW. Since my 7800GS only works on this board I might as well hang onto it and leave XP on it.

    I wish I remembered how crappy NVIDIA's chipset drivers were, or that most ASRock boards from 2005-2007 had no VCORE control, but the boards were so cheap that I was like "whatever." I've spent a ton of time working on them, experimenting, and throwing out bad CD drives that could no longer handle XP installs. :p

    My K8NF6P-VSTA happily runs a Turion 64 ML-37 1MB Lancaster @ 2.4GHz with 2GB DDR 480 and Win7. Beats a Pentium 4 630 @ 3.6GHz with dual channel DDR2, surprisingly.

    Oh, and the P4VM890 is being returned for a refund next week for being DOA. Decided to refund it after having my PCIe GeForce 6800 die yesterday and remembering how slow Pentium 4s are.

    I may consider putting my Zalman VF1000 and a huge fan on my Sapphire 3850 but I don't think I'll get much higher clocks out of it.
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  8. TRWOV

    TRWOV

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    I ended up getting a Deepcool V6000 instead of the Icy Vision. After installing it (with no fans) my temps went from 55-60 idle to 44 :D and load from 70-80 to 55-60 :respect: There's a 120mm side fan blowing air to it so I don't think I'll need the included fans.

    I tested again and couldn't get past 824 for the core, anything above that will give me a VPU crash after a few seconds of 3d load. I think that the culprit is the Rialto chip, maybe it can't cope with the amount of instructions? I put a cooper heatsink on it but that doesn't seem to help.

    I'll give it a go with the fans but I don't think heat is what's holding it back.


    I had that same issue with a build I'm working on. :(

    [​IMG]
    Crunching for Team TPU
  9. TRWOV

    TRWOV

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    Can't test with the fans as the SATA ports get in the way :banghead I

    Some pics of the V6000 installed on the HIS HD3850.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    It's like they were meant to each other, the heatsink doesn't stick out over the edges of the card or anything. I think I could get a bigger VRM heatsink with all that clearance.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  10. _JP_

    _JP_

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    I'm not sure if it's compatible, but Zalman used to have a taller VRM heatsink (compared to stock). It was red, that I remember.
  11. Jstn7477

    Jstn7477

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    What chipset? My 4CoreDual-VSTA (PT880 Ultra) actually runs my 7800GS fine in Windows 7 with a PDC E6600, but it artifacts like crazy if Aero is not enabled (GART problem).
    TRWOV says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  12. _JP_

    _JP_

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    What BIOS version do you have? And is it vanilla or modded?
  13. TRWOV

    TRWOV

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    :respect: Thank you, I'll try that. It's an ULi (nvidia) chipset.

    Apparently there's a registry "hack" that would allow the card to run in AGP mode:

    http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2611157&postcount=129

    But I'm having problems with the registry. It won't let me edit the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\AGP key

    EDIT: apparently the hack works only for XP 64bit :(
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
    Crunching for Team TPU
  14. Jayzilla New Member

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    Coolest AGP System Ever.

    Hi guys. I'm so glad that I found this thread, and it is so active. I'm on a project of building a nice looking complete water cooled AGP system. I'm sure this is the most useful forum I can find around. I will start a work log once I got all the parts. As you all already know. Those absolute hardware are pretty hard to find. I just got my HIS 3850 couple days ago. Here are what the main parts I got so far:

    -Board: AM2NF3-VSTA
    -GPU: HIS Ice turbo HD 3850
    -RAM: 4X2GB OCZ Flex
    ....

    I got a few questions tho hope you guys can help me out so I can start the project sooner.

    -Any one running water on the HD3850? What is your block(s)?
    -Any exp with a Physx card add on? My idea is the Zotac GT 520 or the GT 430.
    ZOTAC ZT-50610-10L GeForce GT 520 (Fermi) 512MB 64...
    ZOTAC ZT-40605-10L GeForce GT 430 (Fermi) 512MB 64...

    Thanks.

    [​IMG]
  15. Jstn7477

    Jstn7477

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    You'll be stuck with XP x86 on that board unless you're running a single core CPU (Sempron 140 comes to mind as being one of the fastest you can install). Also, PCI bottlenecks those would be PhysX cards.

    I'll have to try my Sempron 130 someday and see how it runs.
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  16. TRWOV

    TRWOV

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    If you want physx for an AGP system, I think a PPU is the way to go. BTW use the Physx 8.6 drivers, although the 8.9 drivers are listed as the latest one that supports the PPU for some reason a lot of games don't detect the card (it seems that there are a couple of .dll missing).
    Crunching for Team TPU
  17. Jayzilla New Member

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    You seem to have some exp with ASrock boards. What you are saying is with this board, I can only run Windows XP 32bit?

    Sempron??? No way I'll have it as an AGP system.
  18. Jayzilla New Member

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    Thanks for the reply. I got a BFG Physx card but I didn't plan to use it. I read a forum somewhere you'll get better Physx score if you have a faster card. The Zotac has the most latest PCI interface Nvidia card. I need to try tho.
  19. Jstn7477

    Jstn7477

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    Yes, back in 2004/5 NVIDIA basically dumped AGP support for good (nForce 1-3), but back then we only had single core and very few dual core CPUs. Any AGP system running 2 or more physical cores needs a new GART driver because of memory addressing issues between multicore CPUs and the AGP interface. VIA and Intel chipsets are pretty good for retro multicore AGP support in XP x64/Vista/7 but NVIDIA/Some SiS/Some or all ULi chipsets do not have proper GART drivers for anything above XP x86/x64 and your cards will run in PCI mode or the video drivers may not even install on some ATI cards.

    In summary, from my personal experience with my AM2NF3-VSTA I am typing on (running a 3850 + PII X4 955BE):

    XP x86, multicore: Works with everything. AMD's drivers work but kind of suck.
    XP x64, multicore: Works with everything, but no AGP texture acceleration (almost as bad as PCI mode)
    Vista/7 32/64 multicore: NVIDIA cards run in PCI mode, ATI cards with PCIe to AGP bridges will not run drivers at all.

    Supposedly using a Sempron single core (the fastest single core you can get from AMD) will free you from any restrictions. I have not tried mine yet, so I have no idea how good Windows 6.0/6.1 GART drivers are.
    Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  20. TRWOV

    TRWOV

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    I also found the same with my 939 build.

    At first I had an A64 3000+ with an HD2400 AGP and everything worked fine. After getting an FX60 Dual Core the HD2400 wouldn't install properly, even after a fresh install of W7. I had to relent and go back to XP.

    If you're planning to stick with the Asrock AM2NF3-VSTA then XP is the way to go. Otherwise get an Intel or VIA based board.

    These AGP boards support multicore CPUs:

    Core 2 Quad Q6xxx:
    - Asrock 4CoreDual-SATA2
    - Asrock ConRoe865PE
    - Asrock 4CoreDual-VSTA
    - Asrock 775i65G rev.2 (mATX)
    - Gigabyte GA-8I865GME-775-RH rev. 6.6 (mATX)

    Core 2 Duo:
    - Asrock 775Dual-VSTA
    - Asus P5PE-VM (mATX)
    - Biostar P4M800Pro-D1 7.x (mATX)
    - ECS P4M800PRO-M (mATX)
    - PCCHIPS P23G ver. 3.0 (mATX)

    Pentium D:
    - Asus P5VD1-X
    - Asus P5VDC-X
    - Gigabyte GA-8VT880P Combo
    - Asrock 775VM800Pro-DDR2 (mATX)
    - PCCHIPS P23G ver. 1.0 (mATX)

    AMD AM2:
    - Asrock AM2NF3-VSTA (supports up to Phenom II X4)
    - Gigabyte GA-MF3
    - Biostar K8M800 Micro AM2 (mATX)

    AMD 939:
    - ASUS A8V-MX (mATX)
    - Asrock AliveDual-eSATA2
    - Asrock 939Dual-SATA2
    - Asrock 939Dual-VSTA
    - MSI K8N Neo2-F
    - Asrock 939A8X-M (mATX)




    As for the Physx card, the GT430 would be the better choice as it has the minimum amount of cores to suport Physx 3.x (the PPU supports up to 2.81). The PCI connection shouldn't be a huge bottleneck: http://physxinfo.com/news/880/dedicated-physx-gpu-perfomance-dependence-on-pci-e-bandwidth/
    PCI-e 1x is basically PCI.

    I don't have any experience with using 2 GPUs in XP though.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
    Crunching for Team TPU
  21. Jayzilla New Member

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    Thanks for the briefing story about the AGP history.

    Those Raptor X from the picture I posted earlier has XP32, XP64 and W7-64bit. After reading your post I hooked up the W7 drive and see what you are really mean. It got fully updated and everything is running properly except it doesn't takes the HD3850 AGP driver from AMD. So I got the default driver from Windows obviously. I still able to run Windows 7 and do the everyday works. At least I can stream some HD. What seem to be the issue running W7 W/O the driver from AMD?

    Luckily I didn't plan to run W7 as I intend to. You mentioned so I make it a side topic. I want XP 64 bit for my fastest AGP system anyways. So I used Raptor drive instead of a SSD to match their history.

    I haven't try any PCI video card on this board, but I will going to eventually. Could you tell me about the "AGP texture acceleration". How do I check that and see the comparison and run some benchmark. I'm still a noob and want to learn some more before I start water cool them.

    Sempron...I can't imagine I have jump from the fastest Phenom to this single core CPU. In this case I don't see I need to.

    There are a couple disappointment I got from this rig. All my "Graphic score" in futuremark are significantly lower than my Athlon 64 X2 6400+ Windsor 3.2GHz with the Biostar K8M800 (same video card) on XP-64bit. Oh well, I still want to stick with my legendary Phenom. The other issue is I can't restart the system. It need to be use the switch from the case or PSU. Do you have this problem?

    [​IMG]


    Before I started this project. I went through any single multi-core board on your list. Without a single doubt. AM2NF3-VSTA is the best board for AGP. Quad-core, 16GB DDR2 supported. That is unbeatable. I'm lucky enough to got this board from Ebay with the I/O shield with it!

    I searched and didn't see the GT520 VS GT430 benchmart or review. So I will do a Physx benchmark myself between them JUST for my HD3850. As for right now I'm trying to get the right size water blocks for this card. Looks like I need four pieces of water blocks. I'll give you guys some updates. Cheers.
  22. TRWOV

    TRWOV

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    Run GPU-Z and look at the bus interface. Does it show AGP8x @ 8x or AGP8X @ PCI?

    [​IMG][​IMG]


    There should be an option in the bios to enable it. As Justin stated, XP-64 GART driver doesn't support it.




    That's more likely to be because of the AGP texture acceleration.

    Maybe you could try this to correct it: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531358

    It didn't work for me in W7 but maybe it could work with XP-64.



    The GT520 has 48 cores and the GT430 96. nVidia updated the minimum requirements for Physx 3.x and a card with 96 cores is the bare minimum AFAIK.



    Once you have your rig running we should compare notes :) These are some benchmarks of my "high end" :laugh: AGP rigs:

    Asrock Conroe865PE
    Core 2 Extreme QX6700
    4GB mushkin Redline DDR500
    HD3850 AGP
    http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2544510&postcount=949

    Asrock 939A8X-M
    FX-60
    4GB OCZ EB Platinum DDR500
    nVidia 7950GT AGP
    http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2615426&postcount=141
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
    Crunching for Team TPU
  23. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    I however noticed ULI CHipset motherboards (ASRock was the biggest User) Have a Vista Beta Driver, Otherwise You may be better off with VIA or SIS based motherboards.

    I assume the Intel boards have a driver and no not the one in the OS either since that driver is based upon 440BX driver

    I think if its running at PCI it means its operating at the PCI bandwidth level and not the full speed of the slot.
  24. TRWOV

    TRWOV

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    Jayzilla says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  25. Jayzilla New Member

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    In the worst case I will be running XP x86, but my 8Gb of RAM is waste.

    You are right about the W7 issue. It won't recognize the driver after restart, but no big deal. I'll give this machine to my 60 years old dad anyways with XP on it of course.

    [​IMG]

    That is the card in W7 64bit. Kinda messed up huh. Well, no more W7 for this rig.

    I didn't see the AGP texture acceleration in my bio setting. Is there any others way I can see it? If you are said is right. I should have much better graphic score on XP-32bit right?

    Seem like there is a few options for me to water cool this beast. Will give you guys updates soon. I just ordered this all the way from China for my board.
    http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147218

    Benhmarking-
    You have some scary score. What is the 3dmark05, PCmark05 settings on WXP? I'm going to see what I'll get. You have a 7950GT OEM?

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