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4 gigs of mem on Vista 32???

Discussion in 'Motherboards & Memory' started by EnergyFX, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. EnergyFX

    EnergyFX New Member

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    Why is Vista 32 suddenly acknowledging all 4 gigs of my ram?? Did SP1 just fix how much ram Vista 32 can see (reports correct amount) or did it fix how much Vista 32 can actually use??

    I have 4x1GB sticks, 2x8800 GTX vid cards with 768MB or mem each.
     
  2. alexp999

    alexp999 Staff

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    SP1 just makes sure that it tells you the installed amount of ram. Not nessecarily the available ram.
    I have been trying to work out, if SP1 can use all 4gb. If memory hole remapping is turned on in the bios.
    And does SP1 have PAE on by default (or does it need it for 4gb??)
     
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  3. muka3d

    muka3d New Member

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    Vista 32-bit (or any 32-bit OS) cannot use more than 4GB of RAM, ever. Well, without certain trickery, but I'm not going into that (see PAE, it's pseudo). Here's why:

    A 32-bit OS or 32-bit CPU can have RAM addresses 32 bits in length. So, an example would be 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 as the first possible address, 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 as the highest address. We can calculate all the possible combinations by going 2^32, which equals 4,294,967,296. Dividing that by 1024 a few times, we get an even 4GB, if each address contains one byte. So there's the memory limit, which includes all RAM (on motherboard + GPUs).

    64-bit OSs and 64-bit CPUs do not suffer from this, since 2^64=18,446,744,073,709,551,616, which is over 17 billion GBs.

    This is also why the jump from 32-bit to 64-bit isn't going as quickly as the jump from 16-bit to 32-bit was... 2^16=64KB. But then again, no one needs more than 64KB of RAM ;)

    SP1, as alexp999 explained above, just shows the full number of RAM installed on the motherboard, since countless users felt like they were cheated or something was wrong with their system when not all the RAM was showing up. Since the majority of XP users didn't have this much RAM back in XP days, we never really noticed this issue on a large scale before...
     
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  4. craigo

    craigo

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    well said
     
  5. alexp999

    alexp999 Staff

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    Doesnt memory hole remapping let the OS use all 4gb tho?? Cus it pushes the device memory allocation (like the VGA ram) above the 4gb address space??

    Also on topic of ram. Do you know what are good results for Everest??
    Here is mine:

    Everest Read: 7959.5
    Everest Write: 6178.5
    Everest Latency: 57.1 ns

    Cheers.
     
  6. Kursah

    Kursah

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    Mine at DDR2 960 speeds, 5-5-5-12 are:

    Read - 8628 MB/s
    Write - 8579 MB/s
    Copy - 8331 MB/s
    Latency - 58.1ns

    I'm messing with getting 4-4-4-12 completely stable at 2.125v (LoL)...it's fine until about the last 10% of Memtest 1.7 then it errors...5-5-5-12 is good to go tho!

    Is your memory running at DDR680 or 1360? I am assuming DDR680 (you have 680MHZ..mine run at 480MHZ for DDR960).

    So if that's DDR 680, that's pretty decent man!

    On the getting 4GB to work in 32-bit...I've heard of using the memory remap feature, the /3 GB switch in boot.ini...all are a mixed bag. If you want to utilize your 4GB better...get 64-bit...nuff said. I spent a good week messing with different things to see what I could get out of 32bit XP...some caused stability issues...some caused boot issues...some didn't seem to do anything. IMO, it's not worth it to fight what might not be winnable...but I know not everyone can go out and buy a 64-bit OS at the drop of a hat either.

    I was fortunate to snag a Vista 64 from my tech buddy...he paid the $15 for the 64-bit from MS since he already had purchased Vista Home Premium x32. So far it's the best Vista experience I've had yet...gave vista a good go for a little over 7 months total last year with quite a bit of grief that made XP just more pleasurable to use and tune....but I'm actually content atm. Whether or not I stay on Vista64 is up in the air...but I doubt I'd go back to XP64 just for the fact that there is dwindling support on that end of the spectrum... XP 64 is good stuff...but I don't expect to see anything new as-far-as updates, drivers, or anything specific to that OS. That's just my two cents tho!

    :toast:
     
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  7. alexp999

    alexp999 Staff

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    CPUZ:
    [​IMG]

    Is that good then?? I have been trying to work out if it is worth getting some 800Mhz ram to replace what I have or another 2gb of the same to take me to 4gb. If you reckon that is a good everst score. Shall i stick with this stuff and take it to 4gb. Cus i don't think I'm gonna notice much difference going to 800Mhz right??

    Cheers.

    EDIT: I really want to go Vista x64. My dad has the 64bit dvd so I could do it. But main problem is that I cannot find a 64bit driver for my scanner anywhere!!!
     
  8. Kursah

    Kursah

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    I'm sure you'll notice a difference...but that depends on what you can get for the money...how overclockable that memory is...how far you want your memory to go on an OC if that's important and what-not. If you're happy and can snag another 2 gig kit for cheap...I'd say go for it.

    I lucked out and snagged a 2gb kit of G.Skill HZ's DDR800 just like mine a few weeks ago for $55 shipped...I spent $240 on my first kit over a year ago...lol! I'm happy w/4GB, I probably didn't need it, but it was too hard to not give it a go and see what 4GB would do. I am content.

    Set your goals and find out what your current stuff is capable of if wanting to OC...I have found I can no longer run 500FSB 1:1 (DDR1000) anymore because I'm pushing my P35 too hard to maintain stress stability on the memory end of things...but 480FSB 1:1 works like a charm! I can though, run a 266 or 333 /1066 strap and my 4 sticks do just fine tho!

    :toast:

    EDIT: Also, don't base your system off of synthetic benches..that test is nice and all...but shouldn't be a serious basis for anything other than a little bit of verifacation. If you get SI Sandra and do their memory bandwidth tests, you'll have different results, latencies and such because they use a different method...base it on how well your games run, how well your OS runs, how well your PC does with the tasks you want it to do for you. Don't choose new memory or more memory because of Everest MemBench results...choose it because it'll help your OC, help your workload/gaming load, etc.
     
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  9. muka3d

    muka3d New Member

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    That's strange... With Vista 64-bit drivers shouldn't be an issue, since Microsoft did it right this time. In order to get your driver WHQL'd for Vista (Microsoft approved), you've got to submit both a 32-bit and 64-bit version of the driver, or no signing from Microsoft. (When I say "your" I mean a device manufacturer/driver author).

    Is a WHQL'd Vista driver available for your scanner? If so, it's bound to have both flavors. Contact your scanner manufacturer...
     
  10. alexp999

    alexp999 Staff

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    Well I tried Ocing my ram a little while ago, I cant get it upto anything like 800. I think that the 975x chipset officially only supports 667 ram anyway, but my mobo MF has added another ram divider to the bios. So I'm content, looking at the OCDB I think im getting quite good preformance outta these ram sticks. 2 more is gonna be the way to go. Is there anyway of finding out the true amount of ram available to the OS now that SP1 has changed the readouts?
    Also based on my above edit, I don't suppose there is such a thing as a generic 64 bit scanner driver is there??

    Cheers.
     
  11. alexp999

    alexp999 Staff

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    Only an XP WHQL 32 bit driver. No 64. :( . Its not that old but obviosuly not new enough either.
     
  12. Kursah

    Kursah

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    The available memory hasn't and won't change for Vista 32...what it was reading before is still true.

    And on the scanner driver...it doesn't suprise me, maybe google and see if someone has a work-a-round or something. Scanners and printers have been issues for 64-bit OS's for a while...not all of them, and it's gotten a lot better. If you don't use your scanner often (I used to have one...great dust collector for my uses lol), I'd say go for Vista 64!

    :toast:
     
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  13. alexp999

    alexp999 Staff

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    Well it handles good now, I have opened task manager before in games and found it to be using 1.5gb out of 2gb. But Just looking at size of games now, and apprently DX10 uses more ram. I tend to look at specs of games and aim about 1.5x more and it works nicely. So ATM alot of new games say to have 2gb, so I'm thinking of getting another matched pair of 2x1gb, maxing out the 32bit OS.
     
  14. alexp999

    alexp999 Staff

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    But if it says 4gb in the system properties, where will it say the available ram, not just installed ram??
     
  15. Kursah

    Kursah

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    You'd have to get a utility to find that out...I don't think you'll be able to locate anything that'll tell you what the usable memory out of that 4GB is...but my system in x32 XP was only able to use 3.2GB...if I had a 256MB card it would be almost 3.5GB.

    I would guess you are able to use around 3-3.2GB right now....
     
  16. EnergyFX

    EnergyFX New Member

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    Ok... this confirms what I suspected. I was pretty sure it was just M$ way of reducing annoying calls from people that wanted to know why they just spend $XX on 4 gigs of ram and they weren't seeing it in thier OS system specs.

    But... thank you for the very detailed and informative replies. You guys really know your stuff (and now I know a bit more too!).

    FYI, the only reason I haven't been running 64bit is because something with my X-Fi soundcard causes BSOD crases on initial 64bit boot. The X-Fi was also experiencing serious sound cutouts and popping up until SP1. With the new SP1 it seems to be working perfectly so one of these days I will give 64bit another try.
     
  17. alexp999

    alexp999 Staff

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    okay thanks, well I will prob get hold of the extra ram in the next few weeks.
    See If i can have fiddle with some settings and get as much ram as possible available for the bios. Thanks for clearing some things up!!!
     
  18. EnergyFX

    EnergyFX New Member

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    You might want to give it another go now that SP1 is out. Install 32 bit drivers and try running in compatibility mode. If you have an extra hard drive laying around you could try it without scrapping your current setup. SP1 seems to have fixed a ton of issues folks were experiencing so who knows... maybe you'll get lucky.

    SP1 werked fer mee :rockout:
     
  19. Kursah

    Kursah

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    I'm running SP1 and it's great...I'm so much happier with this install of Vista in comparison to the 7+ months last year I spent with Vista....when I went back to XP I swore I'd never go back to Vista...I guess I was right...I'm not on 32-bit hehe...the x64 SP1 is rock solid, boots faster than I remember and seems to do everything just about as quick as XP Pro 32 was...plus my X-Fi has no issues...sure the software is limited (no THX console yet)...but the drivers are a lot better...I've yet to have a single crash/BSOD/error after installing Vista x64.

    :toast:
     
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  20. EnergyFX

    EnergyFX New Member

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    My only problem is that I will have to physically remove the X-Fi (which is a royal PIA due to my rediculous watercooling system... I have to remove the vid cards first), install 64Bit Vista, upgrade to SP1, and then get the damn X-Fi back in and HOPE it doesn't BSOD on me. It's a lot of work for an experiment, but knowing that your X-Fi is working at least gives me hope.

    I know you probably didn't expect your post to be as useful as it is to me, but thanks for sharing. It helps ease my anxiety.
     
  21. Kursah

    Kursah

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    Yeah...I installed, updated and was good to go. Mine is the Xtreme Music version tho...so it's a low-end X-Fi...but at least it's an X-fi!

    Just got some Turtle Beach HPA2's that arrived recently, and they sound sooo good! They are 5.1...and they blow my old Magnum 5.1's out of the water! So far no severe issues...BSOD's or anything.

    I try to share my experience when I can...if it even interests one person to just read, I feel I've done my job :D . Helping is what this place is about! Lemme know if you run into issues...I might be able to help! To me it was so worth the jump tho!

    :toast:
     

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