7870K Builds — Which Is Better Value for Money?

[dylricho]

I'm no stranger or newbie to computing, by any means, but I'm planning on moving to a new computer, and I've found two A10-7870K-based builds that appeal to me. The first is a prebuilt semi-customized product from an eBay member, while the other is a fully customized build that I've put together. Please make sure you read the entire post before responding.

I should mention that this machine will be used for perhaps 2 years, before being replaced by a newer machine, running on a Zen- or Kaby Lake-powered processor, depending on which is more attractive to me. It will be used primarily for productivity purposes; web development, graphic design and video creation/editing, but I will also use it for a few games in my spare time (those games being Minecraft and Grand Theft Auto V).

Now, I know, this system isn't going to run Grand Theft Auto V on its best settings, and I can fully accept that. A game such as that doesn't really need to be played on the best settings anyway. Videos on YouTube show it running decently well on the integrated Radeon R7 of the APU (albeit at 720p), and with the dedicated card in my custom configuration, it's playable on a balance between medium and high (at 1080p). That's more than enough for me.

I would also like to point out that this machine is an intended upgrade from a 7-year-old Core2-based ASUS laptop that I've been using since I purchased it in 2009. It has been upgraded from a Celeron M to a Core2 Duo T9300, the RAM from 1 GB to 3 GB DDR2-667, and the hard drive to a WD Black, but I think it's finally time to move to a desktop machine, now that college is over. It can't be upgraded any further, and the RAM limitation is what really kills performance in programs such as those mentioned earlier (not to mention the lousy Intel GL960-based GMA X3100 graphics!). Thanks to Intel's ludicrous drivers, even Minecraft isn't playable beyond 1.7.2 (due to the OpenGL 2.1 requirement).

I do think this machine will be more than adequate for my needs, and considering what I'll be moving from, it's definitely an upgrade and I don't require anything more (I may not even upgrade in two years). The competitor of the 7870K is Intel's Core i3-4170 or i3-4370, and although it's slightly faster, it doesn't offer overclocking. Plus, I've always suggested that four physical cores are better than four logical cores for multi-tasking. Core i5s and i7s don't interest me; nor do AMD's FX series or Athlon X4 models, as I'd really like the OpenCL acceleration of Kaveri.

With the potential fanboy-inducing arguments out of the way, here are the two builds. Please keep in mind that the custom configuration by myself may look more expensive, but I've selected components that I plan on taking over to my next build, such as the case, graphics card, monitor and power supply. Also remember that this is my first desktop computer, so it will cost more to get the initial setup.

eBay Semi-Custom Prebuilt Build (£660 — £550 without Monitor)

Case — CiT Galaxy Evolution
Motherboard — ASRock A55 with USB 3.0
Processor — AMD A10-7870K
CPU Cooler — Stock
Memory — 16 GB DDR3-1600
Hard Drive — 1 TB SATA-II at 7200 rpm
Graphics Card — AMD Radeon R9 380 with 2 GB GDDR5
Monitor — ASUS VE247H 23.6" 1080p @ £110
Optical Drive — CD/DVD SuperMulti rewriter
Power Supply — "upgraded to support the R9 380"

My Custom Build (£726 — £616 without Monitor)
Case — Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) @ £78
Motherboard — ASRock FM2A88X Extreme4+ @ £63
*Processor — AMD A10-7870K @ £90
CPU Cooler — Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO @ £25
*Memory — 16 GB G.Skill Ares DDR3-2133 @ £75
Hard Drive — 1 TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 (SATA-III) @ £36
*Graphics Card — Gigabyte Radeon R9 280X WindForce with 3 GB GDDR5 @ £150
Monitor — ASUS VE247H 23.6" 1080p @ £110
Optical Drive — LG GH24NSB0 CD/DVD Writer @ £22
Power Supply — EVGA SuperNOVA GS 650 (650 W, 80 PLUS Gold) @ £77

* I should note that I plan on purchasing the processor, memory and graphics card second hand. The prices above for the processor and memory are brand new, while the graphics card price is second hand. That's because the 270X and 280X cards on Amazon right now are ludicrously over-priced, compared to last year. Plus, when you can get a 280X for the price of a brand new 270X, why wouldn't you?

I already have a mouse and keyboard, as I work with databases a lot (and the mouse helps in Photoshop!). I also already have some Antec Formula 7 thermal paste left over from my T9300 upgrade last year.

Thank you.

 

[tabascosauz]

Isn't OpenCL acceleration available for either one of the AMD dGPUs as well?

Your rationale in choosing the 7870K over the 860K is flawed; all those "features" that the 7870K touts are basically useless bling that offers nothing over the 860K. Also, I've explained a lot of times why dual-core Haswell with HT is still far superior to dual-module Steamroller; if you believe that the 7870K and 860K offer "four physical cores", you've been misled. That's not how Steamroller and every other Bulldozer derivative works.

Few games use more than 2 cores. The take-away message from this fact is not "that means that A10 Kaveri will be superior to i3 Haswell in a small number of games"; rather, it is "A10s will suffer in the vast majority of games because of their woefully inadequate IPC".

I'm going to ignore the dGPUs for the sake of evaluating the rest of the builds, but I will say that the second build is better because APUs want fast RAM much more than regular CPUs do. Also, substitute the NEX650 for a TS550/650 Gold or something. The NEX650 is a very mediocre PSU.

FM2+ is really only acceptable for use in a primary desktop when paired with an A78 or A88X board. Going with A55 will have you missing out on a lot of useful features.

 

[dylricho]

Isn't OpenCL acceleration available for either one of the AMD dGPUs as well?

Your rationale in choosing the 7870K over the 860K is flawed; all those "features" that the 7870K touts are basically useless bling that offers nothing over the 860K. Also, I've explained a lot of times why dual-core Haswell with HT is still far superior to dual-module Steamroller; if you believe that the 7870K and 860K offer "four logical cores", you've been misled. That's not how Steamroller and every other Bulldozer derivative works.

Few games use more than 2 cores. The take-away message from this fact is not "that means that A10 Kaveri will be superior to i3 Haswell in a small number of games"; rather, it is "A10s will suffer in the vast majority of games because of their woefully inadequate IPC".

I'm going to ignore the dGPUs for the sake of evaluating the rest of the builds, but I will say that the second build is better because APUs want fast RAM much more than regular CPUs do. Also, substitute the NEX650 for a TS550/650 Gold or something. The NEX650 is a very mediocre PSU.

FM2+ is really only acceptable for use in a primary desktop when paired with an A78 or A88X board. Going with A55 will have you missing out on a lot of useful features.

Thank you for your reply. I haven't been mislead; I'm fully aware of how Bulldozer's shared CMT architecture works (I've even made mock-up diagrams for other people), but that doesn't bother me. The i3-4370 isn't that much faster than the 7870K in multi-threaded workloads, and that's primarily what I'll be doing. Plus, with the option to overclock, the difference is negligible. As I said, going from a Core2 Duo, to this, the difference will be noticeable, and that's all I care about.

In regards to the PSU, the NEX650 was the cheapest 80 PLUS Gold fully-modular model I could find. Are you referring to the XFX TS P1-650G-TS3X? I didn't really think much of it due to the low amount of ratings on PC Part Picker. I would at least like a semi-modular PSU. I did check out Corsair's CX600M, but it's only 80 PLUS Bronze-certified.

Also, something I wanted to mention is that I was originally looking at the ASUS A88X-PRO, but then came across the ASRock board. The ASUS board is £20 more expensive. Which one would you suggest? I'm more concerned about the "unique/exclusive features" than anything else. Both boards support everything I would need. Does ASRock have a MemOK! equivalent?

 

[Toothless]

Honestly with an APU, get a good overclocking board, fast RAM, and a decent CPU cooler for starters.

I'd help more but the only APU I've been able to play with is my laptop chip. Amazing overclocker that loves fast RAM.

 

[dylricho]

Honestly with an APU, get a good overclocking board, fast RAM, and a decent CPU cooler for starters.

I'd help more but the only APU I've been able to play with is my laptop chip. Amazing overclocker that loves fast RAM.

This is intended to be a cheap upgrade to my current machine. It doesn't need to be anything fancy, honestly. It does seem like my configuration is the better one, though.

Anyone know how the R9 380 performs against the R9 280X? I think that's literally the only thing that's making me consider the eBay machine. I did ask the guy for a 270X, but he said they were no longer available, and so opted for the 380 instead.

 

[tabascosauz]

Thank you for your reply. I haven't been mislead; I'm fully aware of how Bulldozer's shared CMT architecture works (I've even made mock-up diagrams for other people), but that doesn't bother me. The i3-4370 isn't that much faster than the 7870K in multi-threaded workloads, and that's primarily what I'll be doing. Plus, with the option to overclock, the difference is negligible. As I said, going from a Core2 Duo, to this, the difference will be noticeable, and that's all I care about.

In regards to the PSU, the NEX650 was the cheapest 80 PLUS Gold fully-modular model I could find. Are you referring to the XFX TS P1-650G-TS3X? I didn't really think much of it due to the low amount of ratings on PC Part Picker. I would at least like a semi-modular PSU. I did check out Corsair's CX600M, but it's only 80 PLUS Bronze-certified.

Also, something I wanted to mention is that I was originally looking at the ASUS A88X-PRO, but then came across the ASRock board. The ASUS board is £20 more expensive. Which one would you suggest? I'm more concerned about the "unique/exclusive features" than anything else. Both boards support everything I would need. Does ASRock have a MemOK! equivalent?

If that's what you want, I'm not stopping you. Both are modern CPUs. I'm just pointing out that compared to an i3-4150, neither 7870K build is good value for money. For the sake of others who are making the same decision, an OC is not going to put the 7870K on par with a 4370 for many reasons, lack of overclockability (compared to Richland) and still a lack of IPC being the most important reasons.

If it'd help you make a decision, the 860K runs extremely cool compared to its predecessor, the 760K. It can manage an easy overclock on the stock cooler without getting too hot.

There's more to a PSU than the 80+ rating. It should be known now that with much better options on the table like the TS650 Gold (based off of Seasonic S12G 650W), the NEX650 should be put to rest and the arguments that "it has all-Japanese capacitors" and "it's 80+ Gold" should not be raised under any circumstance. Nothing can change its nearly 4% volt deviation on 12V. Check the price of the S12G 650W and the XFX XTR 550W (based off of SSR-650RM). If the EVGA G2 550W and 650W are within your budget, you should check them out as well.

The 280X generally beat the 380 across the board a few months back; I suspect it's still the same. The 380 is a much more modern graphics card but as it's basically an evolution of Tahiti Pro, it's at a physical disadvantage compared to the 280X. Your choice, really; if you want features like Freesync, the 380 is your option there.

As for the board, I'd probably want the A88X-Pro if I was to push the 7870K as hard as possible. I'm no expert on FM2+ overclocking, however, so don't quote me on that one.

 

[dylricho]

If that's what you want, I'm not stopping you. Both are modern CPUs. I'm just pointing out that compared to an i3-4150, neither 7870K build is good value for money. For the sake of others who are making the same decision, an OC is not going to put the 7870K on par with a 4370 for many reasons, lack of overclockability (compared to Richland) and still a lack of IPC being the most important reasons.

If it'd help you make a decision, the 860K runs extremely cool compared to its predecessor, the 760K. It can manage an easy overclock on the stock cooler without getting too hot.

There's more to a PSU than the 80+ rating. It should be known now that with much better options on the table like the TS650 Gold (based off of Seasonic S12G 650W), the NEX650 should be put to rest and the arguments that "it has all-Japanese capacitors" and "it's 80+ Gold" should not be raised under any circumstance. Nothing can change its nearly 4% volt deviation on 12V. Check the price of the S12G 650W and the XFX XTR 550W (based off of SSR-650RM). If the EVGA G2 550W and 650W are within your budget, you should check them out as well.

The 280X generally beat the 380 across the board a few months back; I suspect it's still the same. The 380 is a much more modern graphics card but as it's basically an evolution of Tahiti Pro, it has a physical disadvantage compared to the 280X. Your choice, really; if you want features like Freesync, the 380 is your option there.

As for the board, I'd probably want the A88X-Pro if I was to push the 7870K as hard as possible. I'm no expert on FM2+ overclocking, however, so don't quote me on that one.

I don't plan on pushing the overclocking too far, but I would like to get a couple hundred MHz out of it, at least. I'm thinking the primary reason I'm wanting the A10 over the Athlon is so I have a backup graphics unit in case the dedicated card suddenly dies off, and I'll be able to continue using my machine. Since I'm buying the GPU second-hand, I'd think that was perhaps a good strategy. Other than that, I don't have a problem with the Athlon.

I actually think I've been looking at the wrong PSU all this time. I'm pretty sure the G2 is the one I looked at months ago. Here are the prices for the respective models you mentioned, from Amazon. For reference, the NEX650 costs £64:

• Seasonic S12G-650 (£87) — 650 W, 80 PLUS Gold (Non-Modular)
• XFX XTR P1-550B-BEFX (£76) — 550 W; 80 PLUS Gold (Fully-Modular)
• EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650 (£86) — 650 W; 80 PLUS Gold (Fully-Modular)
• EVGA SuperNOVA GS 650 (£77) — 650 W; 80 PLUS Gold (Fully-Modular)

I may swing in the direction of the GS. What's the difference between the G2 and the GS?

What exactly did you mean when you said the 380 has a physical disadvantage? Are you referring to its size? The Gigabyte 280X is pretty big too, although nothing the Fractal case can't handle. I'm not looking for Freesync, just a great price-to-performance graphics card. (As previously stated, I was looking at the 270X, until I figured second-hand 280X prices are about the same, and the performance jump between the two is significant.)

 

[tabascosauz]

I don't plan on pushing the overclocking too far, but I would like to get a couple hundred MHz out of it, at least. I'm thinking the primary reason I'm wanting the A10 over the Athlon is so I have a backup graphics unit in case the dedicated card suddenly dies off, and I'll be able to continue using my machine. Since I'm buying the GPU second-hand, I'd think that was perhaps a good strategy. Other than that, I don't have a problem with the Athlon.

I actually think I've been looking at the wrong PSU all this time. I'm pretty sure the G2 is the one I looked at months ago. Here are the prices for the respective models you mentioned, from Amazon. For reference, the NEX650 costs £64:

• Seasonic S12G-650 (£87) — 650 W, 80 PLUS Gold (Non-Modular)
• XFX XTR P1-550B-BEFX (£76) — 550 W; 80 PLUS Gold (Fully-Modular)
• EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650 (£86) — 650 W; 80 PLUS Gold (Fully-Modular)
• EVGA SuperNOVA GS 650 (£77) — 650 W; 80 PLUS Gold (Fully-Modular)

I may swing in the direction of the GS. What's the difference between the G2 and the GS?

What exactly did you mean when you said the 380 has a physical disadvantage? Are you referring to its size? The Gigabyte 280X is pretty big too, although nothing the Fractal case can't handle. I'm not looking for Freesync, just a great price-to-performance graphics card. (As previously stated, I was looking at the 270X, until I figured second-hand 280X prices are about the same, and the performance jump between the two is significant.)

The GS is a seasonic platform. The G2 is Leadex. No brand is superior to the other, but the Seasonic one is G series I think, which places it at a lower tier (based on price and cost) than the Leadex. Both are great for the money, just that Leadex is a higher-end platform than G. This just means that it performs slightly better in just about all aspects of performance, but the build quality is stellar for both and performance is great in both cases. Get whatever you can afford. I would take the XTR if you decide that 80GBP+ is too expensive for you.

The R9 380's silicon is Tonga Pro. The R9 280X's silicon is Tahiti XT. Tonga is basically a newer version of Tahiti based on GCN 1.2, while Tahiti was GCN 1.0; however, the R9 380 takes the R9 280's place. The R9 280's Tahiti Pro GPU is physically weaker than Tahiti XT because it's cut down with 1792 shaders, while Tahiti XT is the full thing with 2048. Tonga Pro, since it's the successor to Tahiti Pro, has 1792 shaders as well, but because it's newer and more efficient, the R9 380 outperforms the R9 280.

Honestly, if you cannot save enough money for a R9 390, a R9 380 is fine. The difference in performance is minimal between it and the R9 280X, and the difference in power consumption is significant (the R9 380 is much more efficient than the R9 280X).

 

[dylricho]

The GS is a seasonic platform. The G2 is Leadex. No brand is superior to the other, but the Seasonic one is G series I think, which places it at a lower tier (based on price and cost) than the Leadex. Both are great for the money, just that Leadex is a higher-end platform than G. This just means that it performs slightly better in just about all aspects of performance, but the build quality is stellar for both and performance is great in both cases. Get whatever you can afford. I would take the XTR if you decide that 80GBP+ is too expensive for you.

The R9 380's silicon is Tonga Pro. The R9 280X's silicon is Tahiti XT. Tonga is basically a newer version of Tahiti based on GCN 1.2, while Tahiti was GCN 1.0; however, the R9 380 takes the R9 280's place. The R9 280's Tahiti Pro GPU is physically weaker than Tahiti XT because it's cut down with 1792 shaders, while Tahiti XT is the full thing with 2048. Tonga Pro, since it's the successor to Tahiti Pro, has 1792 shaders as well, but because it's newer and more efficient, the R9 380 outperforms the R9 280.

Oh, that makes sense, thanks! So essentially, it's R9 280 < R9 285 < R9 380 < R9 280X?

I can understand why the Athlon would be a better idea with the R9 since I'd be saving £50, but part of me really wants the integrated GPU 'just to be safe'.

Honestly, if you cannot save enough money for a R9 390, a R9 380 is fine. The difference in performance is minimal between it and the R9 280X, and the difference in power consumption is significant (the R9 380 is much more efficient than the R9 280X).

It's a tough decision. There are more second-hand 280Xs out there, than 380s, but I would prefer the newer technology (who wouldn't, right?). That being said, even a 270X would be more than enough for my needs. I just got into the ideology that 'second-hand but more powerful' was better than 'brand new and less powerful'.

 

[NdMk2o1o]

I'd defo go with your custom build over a prebuilt ebay one as they skimp on the case, PSU, RAM, cooling and motherboard to make it seem like a better deal than it is. I managed to bag one of these: EVGA Supernova 550 W Gs Gold 80+ Modular for £52 a month or 2 back and can vouch that they are very good PSU's though you wont have any issues with any of the ones you posted so I'd say just go with the cheaper option.

 

[GhostRyder]

Oh, that makes sense, thanks! So essentially, it's R9 280 < R9 285 < R9 380 < R9 280X?

I can understand why the Athlon would be a better idea with the R9 since I'd be saving £50, but part of me really wants the integrated GPU 'just to be safe'.



It's a tough decision. There are more second-hand 280Xs out there, than 380s, but I would prefer the newer technology (who wouldn't, right?). That being said, even a 270X would be more than enough for my needs. I just got into the ideology that 'second-hand but more powerful' was better than 'brand new and less powerful'.

I know its been discussed multiple times but again I would definitely in your shoes get the 860K for the money savings. Its also a bit easier in my experience to overclock temp wise as well when there is no GPU inside adding to the potential heat and power consumption. I have had almost no experience with the 7870K but the 7850K overclocked just fine including on the GPU but with an 860k I saw lower temps clock for clock (Albeit they all overclocked to about the same levels).

Even if your wanting it in case of a failure, GPU failures are not something that generally happen for years as is unless you stress a card 24/7 or similar. I have had only a few fail in my life and most have been so old at that point they were not worth while anyways. I just cannot recommend the integrated GPU options on Kaveri if your wanting to buy a nice discreet because of the huge price difference for no performance.

 

[peche]

you have like $650-700 for making a upgrade of your core2 bassed laptop? thats it right?
why the **** you dont ask for help about how could be the best build you can get with that money?

Regards,

 

[dylricho]

you have like $650-700 for making a upgrade of your core2 bassed laptop? thats it right?
why the **** you dont ask for help about how could be the best build you can get with that money?

Regards,

I'm happy with the APU system. I'll be moving to Zen or Kaby Lake in two years regardless, so what I have now makes no difference. The key components like the case, graphics card and power supply will be moved over to the next build, and that's why they are what they are, and not something that would fit into a typical budget-oriented APU build.

I don't need a Core i5 or i7 machine. I was hoping the post I made would state that. All I asked was which build was better value for money, not for someone to give me a completely new build. If I wanted that, I would have asked for that.

Honestly, moving from a 2008 dual-core, to a 2014 quad-core, it will feel like a Core i7 upgrade to myself, as I haven't been spoiled by using high-end parts in the past. The graphics improvement from the Intel GMA to even the Radeon R7 is a massive increase.

 

[JayCan73]

I haven't used any desktop variants of amd apu's, the laptops worked well enough and were ok for basic stuff and playing older games that weren't really demanding. That said, I can tell you that although their integrated graphics are a lot more gaming capable than intels version, you will only ever meet the minimum specs on current games, at reduced resolutions, and probably not the smoothest framerates. I'd also advise that trying to overclock on cheaper AMD hardware is not something you want to do. It cost me my last system! After having switched myself, from a phenom2X4 to a lowly dual core haswell Pentium, I was massively impressed by the ipc improvements. Most of the ordinary tasks are way faster, and gaming is perfect on all but a few titles. (framerate can tank at times playing witcher 3) I'd suggest you build a budget intel system. H81 mobo, cheap 1600mhz ram, whatever cpu you can afford (you can always upgrade later, You are stuck with the 7870's performance cap if you buy it) and a good quality psu. I run my system on a 450w gold seasonic and can't tax it enough for it to heat up and spin up the fan. Sorry for the long post.

 

[dylricho]

I haven't used any desktop variants of amd apu's, the laptops worked well enough and were ok for basic stuff and playing older games that weren't really demanding. That said, I can tell you that although their integrated graphics are a lot more gaming capable than intels version, you will only ever meet the minimum specs on current games, at reduced resolutions, and probably not the smoothest framerates. I'd also advise that trying to overclock on cheaper AMD hardware is not something you want to do. It cost me my last system! After having switched myself, from a phenom2X4 to a lowly dual core haswell Pentium, I was massively impressed by the ipc improvements. Most of the ordinary tasks are way faster, and gaming is perfect on all but a few titles. (framerate can tank at times playing witcher 3) I'd suggest you build a budget intel system. H81 mobo, cheap 1600mhz ram, whatever cpu you can afford (you can always upgrade later, You are stuck with the 7870's performance cap if you buy it) and a good quality psu. I run my system on a 450w gold seasonic and can't tax it enough for it to heat up and spin up the fan. Sorry for the long post.

I would put Kaveri on the desktop in a completely different league to the laptop variants (and even more so against mobile Trinity and Richland). I appreciate your suggestion Jay, but I'm moving from a 2008 dual-core processor, after five years of single-core Celeron usage, and two years of dual-core Core2 usage. I don't think I'll find the Kaveri performance any less than welcoming.

 

[dylricho]

Hey guys. I've been searching around and I've come up with this:

(I did do some Sandy/Ivy Bridge i5 and Haswell i3 searching before coming up with the APU build, but it seems those parts are either non-existent, or actually more expensive than Haswell boards and CPUs, so that's what put me off.)

Custom Intel Build (£889/£779 without Monitor — £749/£639 with Second-Hand Parts)
Case — Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) @ £78
Motherboard — ASRock Z97 Anniversary @ £63
*Processor — Intel Core i5-4670K @ £186
CPU Cooler — Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO @ £26
*Memory — 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3-1600 @ £67
Hard Drive — 1 TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 (SATA-III) @ £36
*Graphics Card — Gigabyte Radeon R9 280X WindForce with 3 GB GDDR5 @ £224
Monitor — ASUS VE247H 23.6" 1080p @ £110
Optical Drive — LG GH24NSB0 CD/DVD Writer @ £22
Power Supply — EVGA SuperNOVA GS 650 (650 W, 80 PLUS Gold) @ £77

* These prices are from Amazon, brand new. I actually plan on buying them second-hand from eBay. Assuming the same pricing as before (£150 for the 280X and hopefully around £120 for the i5), it works out to be around £20 more expensive than the APU build.

^ With that in mind, please answer the following questions;

1. What do you think in terms of price to performance, against the 7870K/860K system?
2. Would you say it's possible to find a second-hand 280X for £150?
3. What about finding a second-hand Core i5-4670K for £120?
4. If £120 for an i5-4670K is asking for too much, what Haswell i5 model would you say I could get for that kind of money?

I should note on Amazon right now, the i5-4690K is actually cheaper than the i5-4670K, so I'll be looking out for that model too, despite the simple 100 MHz clock increase. If it's cheaper, it makes sense.

 

[rruff]

1) Much better. No contest.
2) You can buy brand new 280s in the US for $140. No idea about the UK. The X is only a little faster and would not be worth more than a ~10% premium IMO.
3) Doubtful to get a big discount over new.
4) Any of the non-K models.

EDIT: Just did a little browsing on UK PCPartpicker, and I think you should consider saving around £220 with a i3-4170 (it will be much faster than any AMD APU), no cooler, and a GTX 950 card. The 950 will be ~20% slower than 280X but will have the latest features, use a lot less power, and is much cheaper. You'd also be fine with a good 450W PSU, for possible additional savings, and you'd no longer need a Z board.

Oh... and I'd spring for an SSD drive. So much quicker booting and launching apps.

 

[dylricho]

1) Much better. No contest.
2) You can buy brand new 280s in the US for $140. No idea about the UK. The X is only a little faster and would not be worth more than a ~10% premium IMO.
3) Doubtful to get a big discount over new.
4) Any of the non-K models.

EDIT: Just did a little browsing on UK PCPartpicker, and I think you should consider saving around £220 with a i3-4170 (it will be much faster than any AMD APU), no cooler, and a GTX 950 card. The 950 will be ~20% slower than 280X but will have the latest features, use a lot less power, and is much cheaper. You'd also be fine with a good 450W PSU, for possible additional savings, and you'd no longer need a Z board.

Oh... and I'd spring for an SSD drive. So much quicker booting and launching apps.

I've been looking around and saw a few second-hand 4670Ks for £120. As for NVIDIA, I don't like the company's tactics, so I'm staying clear of their products (even though I did like the performance of the GTX 970 in GTA V). This machine is something I want to keep running for the next 2-3 years, and I was thinking of sticking an i7-4790K in somewhere down that road (not yet, of course).

I'm actually surprised that Z97 board is so cheap. There must be some drawback or catch somewhere; it's an Intel board.

 

[tabascosauz]

I've been looking around and saw a few second-hand 4670Ks for £120. As for NVIDIA, I don't like the company's tactics, so I'm staying clear of their products (even though I did like the performance of the GTX 970 in GTA V). This machine is something I want to keep running for the next 2-3 years, and I was thinking of sticking an i7-4790K in somewhere down that road (not yet, of course).

I'm actually surprised that Z97 board is so cheap. There must be some drawback or catch somewhere; it's an Intel board.

Seeing as how you seem to be ok with the second-hand prices on that 4670K + 280X build, I see no reason why you should "save" for the 4170 + GTX 950 build. How these "features" of the GTX 950 trumps the performance of the R9 280X baffles me. These two cards aren't even on the same tier. Earlier, I was proposing that you could consider the 380 instead of the 280X based on the fact that the former has Freesync, if that's the stuff that excites you. Those two cards are roughly comparable based on the performance.

The 4130/4150/4160/4170 is a more-than-worthy alternative to the 7850K/7870K and it's still no match for even a i5-4460 in GTA V, for example. The difference in framerates between a i3-4160 and i5-4460 paired with a R9 280X is not insignificant. You're buying these second-hand anyways; stick with the quad-core Haswell.

The 280 supposedly being a tiny bit below the 280X in performance is moot point. This would never end. The 270X, with a bump in clocks, catches up with the 280 and the 270 is basically a more efficient 270X...see what I mean? The R9 280 is a cut down chip and is old. The R9 380 is cut down but at least is GCN 1.2. The R9 280X is old but offers plenty of compelling performance. If you would like a more efficient alternative from Nvidia, try the GTX 960. It slots in where the R9 380 is: below the 280X, with a newer architecture while sipping less power.

Lastly, this rig is to be housed in a Define R5. This is ATX, and there's no reason why we should be in a race to run this rig with the lowest-wattage PSU possible. Any of these GS, G2 and XTR PSUs should last you into your next big upgrade, a few years down the line. Ideas may change, and you may find that 450W will not suit your needs anymore.

 

[rruff]

Good find on the 4670Ks. I'm kinda surprised anyone would be wanting to upgrade those already.

Unless you find a killer deal on a 280x, I'd recommend a 380 from AMD. Saw some of those for <£150, about the same as a 960.

My reason for recommending the 950 is that current pricing (£120) puts them ahead value wise. They are 12-15% slower than a 960 but have the same memory bandwidth, so less likely to be bandwidth constrained.

 

[dylricho]

Seeing as how you seem to be ok with the second-hand prices on that 4670K + 280X build, I see no reason why you should "save" for the 4170 + GTX 950 build. How these "features" of the GTX 950 trumps the performance of the R9 280X baffles me. These two cards aren't even on the same tier. Earlier, I was proposing that you could consider the 380 instead of the 280X based on the fact that the former has Freesync, if that's the stuff that excites you. Those two cards are roughly comparable based on the performance.

The 4130/4150/4160/4170 is a more-than-worthy alternative to the 7850K/7870K and it's still no match for even a i5-4460 in GTA V, for example. The difference in framerates between a i3-4160 and i5-4460 paired with a R9 280X is not insignificant. You're buying these second-hand anyways; stick with the quad-core Haswell.

The 280 supposedly being a tiny bit below the 280X in performance is moot point. This would never end. The 270X, with a bump in clocks, catches up with the 280 and the 270 is basically a more efficient 270X...see what I mean? The R9 280 is a cut down chip and is old. The R9 380 is cut down but at least is GCN 1.2. The R9 280X is old but offers plenty of compelling performance. If you would like a more efficient alternative from Nvidia, try the GTX 960. It slots in where the R9 380 is: below the 280X, with a newer architecture while sipping less power.

Lastly, this rig is to be housed in a Define R5. This is ATX, and there's no reason why we should be in a race to run this rig with the lowest-wattage PSU possible. Any of these GS, G2 and XTR PSUs should last you into your next big upgrade, a few years down the line. Ideas may change, and you may find that 450W will not suit your needs anymore.

Did you quote the wrong person, or...?

I'm really liking the 4670K + R9 280X combination. It was my previous searching of Sandy and Ivy Core i5s and boards that got me thinking I wouldn't be able to get anything more than a Core i3 (which I didn't want).

Considering the 7870K is £90 new, I think £120 for the 4670K second-hand is a great deal. They go for £186 on Amazon right now, meanwhile the 4690K is £160 (strange). Which of the two I get will depend on the best deal I can find, but I won't be unhappy with either one. Since there's no APU to worry about, and the Intel HD 4600 graphics is piss poor regardless, the RAM can be slower and cheaper. And I was also thinking of getting the 550 W GS power supply instead to help reduce costs further (so that £30 is basically non-existent). However, it looks like the 280X requires a 600 W power supply?

Good find on the 4670Ks. I'm kinda surprised anyone would be wanting to upgrade those already.

Unless you find a killer deal on a 280x, I'd recommend a 380 from AMD. Saw some of those for <£150, about the same as a 960.

My reason for recommending the 950 is that current pricing (£120) puts them ahead value wise. They are 12-15% slower than a 960 but have the same memory bandwidth, so less likely to be bandwidth constrained.

I can't seem to find any R9 380s for less than the price of the 280X, which is £224 on Amazon (around £50 more than what it was last year). I'll be buying the parts in a few months, and I honestly like the sound of an overclockable GPU more (so 270X or 280X), but ultimately, which one I buy will be based on the best deal I can find. The price of the 270X has gone up drastically since last year.

 

[rruff]

I can't seem to find any R9 380s for less than the price of the 280X, which is £224 on Amazon (around £50 more than what it was last year).

Many here: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/parts/video-card/#sort=a8&page=1&c=310

All GPUs can be overclocked. The 270x and 280x are just clocked higher out of the box. Don't buy a new R9 270(x) or 280(x) card unless it's cheap. The 380 is not that different but does have some updated features.

 

[Steve-007UK]

XFX R9 380 4gig is around £169.99 at http://www.novatech.co.uk and most other makes are within a few £ of each other.

The 2gig versions go for around £149.99.

 

[Toothless]

Wasn't there a i7 920 build on the forum for cheap? Still enough power for todays goodies.

 

[rruff]

I'm curious why you are using such a slow outdated system now, but expect your new system to only last 2 years before a major upgrade? You also mentioned carrying over your monitor and GPU when you upgrade to the latest CPU in two years. IMO, these are parts that you *will* want to upgrade in two years, but the CPU not so much.

You'll want a new monitor because higher res will be cheap, and a more powerful GPU to match it and the newer games. The i5K on the other hand will likely be fine for a few more years.