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Advice: Haswell-E vs Skylake

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Hi,
So im a retard, 2 days ago I was asking about SLI GTX970 and yesterday i went and got another Asus Strix 970, ASSUMING that every MODERN mobo supports SLI.
well, we all know what happens when you assume too much, right?!

So my Gigabyte H97-Gaming 3 is Crossfire only :(
So i went ahead and looked for solutions, and found here on these forums how to enable SLI on CF boards, and i managed to sort of do it, it was enabled in the driver setting but I assume that PCIe v2.0 x4 is not enough for GTX970, and testing Witcher 3 i got 20FPS on SLI instead of my 55-60 without.
I played with it for a day, tried different drivers, nothing.
So I packed the second GPU till I get my new system.

And here is what I want to know, should I wait till August for i7-6700K and Z170 or should I grab i7-5820K right now?

Also please note that by waiting for Skylake ill save some major money by getting the DDR3 version, I have an
excellent pair of x2 8Gb sticks of DDR3 RAM (Corsair Vengeance Pro 2133Mhz)
Also my birthday is in August :) And Metal gear Solid comes right after in Spetember :)

TL:TR
Well so which option is better (performance+money) the Broadwell-E i7-5820K 3.3Ghz or the Skylake i7-6700K 4.0Ghz with DDR3 2133Mhz that I already have.

Regards
 
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In case it didn't occur to you, just because Skylake will be compatible with DDR3 or DDR4 doesn't mean its motherboards will, and many manufacturers probably won't bother to sell any Skylake boards with DDR3 slots.

As for Skylake or Haswell-E, it depends on the intended usage. The Skylake-K chips will be pretty competitive with 5820K in terms of instructions per clock and certain application, but not in everything. 5820K will probably be much better for rendering and heavy multitasking, for instance.
 
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Well I'm in the same boat on what platform to go to, the things I've been thinking about is if you go with haswell-e it will probably be a dead upgrade path for the socket (not 100% for sure). And if you go with skylake you should be able to go with the next gen after that also.

I have heard rumors some mb manufacture has a mb that can do ddr3/ddr4.
 
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In case it didn't occur to you, just because Skylake will be compatible with DDR3 or DDR4 doesn't mean its motherboards will, and many manufacturers probably won't bother to sell any Skylake boards with DDR3 slots.

But if its compatible its logical that there will be boards with DDR3, Skylake is mainstream CPU so they need to ease upgrading.
also they have stocks of DDR3 that has to sell out, thats how it was back with DDR2/DDR3, first gen DDR3 CPU had DDR2 support and I remember using DDR2 until DDR3 became cheap and affordable.

P.S. Lets assume you right: Skylake DDR4 + 4Ghz + USB 3.1 or Haswell-E DDR4 + 3.3Ghz/6Core + more PCIe lanes?
 
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Well I'm in the same boat on what platform to go to, the things I've been thinking about is if you go with haswell-e it will probably be a dead upgrade path for the socket (not 100% for sure). And if you go with skylake you should be able to go with the next gen after that also.

I have heard rumors some mb manufacture has a mb that can do ddr3/ddr4.

I was thinking that if Mainstream CPUs stay 4 cores then all new games will support maximum 4 cores, 6 cores is nice but 4 cores at higher speed is better.
Also I was reading that Skylake will be getting more PCIe Gen3 lanes to support new technologies (but still not as many as Haswell-E)
 
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But if its compatible its logical that there will be boards with DDR3, Skylake is mainstream CPU so they need to ease upgrading.
also they have stocks of DDR3 that has to sell out, thats how it was back with DDR2/DDR3, first gen DDR3 CPU had DDR2 support and I remember using DDR2 until DDR3 became cheap and affordable.

P.S. Lets assume you right: Skylake DDR4 + 4Ghz + USB 3.1 or Broadwell-E DDR4 + 3.3Ghz/6Core + more PCIe lanes?
I'm goin' for 5820K. For one thing, there are X99 motherboards with USB 3.1 ports already, such as those from MSI, and you could always throw in an add-in card for more. More importantly though, as I mentioned, the 5820K, having more cores and more threads, will handle certain tasks in particular and multitasking in general better than the Skylake, despite Skylake's more advanced architecture:
 
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I was thinking that if Mainstream CPUs stay 4 cores then all new games will support maximum 4 cores, 6 cores is nice but 4 cores at higher speed is better.
Also I was reading that Skylake will be getting more PCIe Gen3 lanes to support new technologies (but still not as many as Broadwell-E)
Frankly, when DX12 games come around, CPU power will be even less of a factor in gaming than it is now. As it stands, you really won't even need an i7 Skylake for gaming. i5 will suffice (which you could replace with i7 if it comes to it).

If, however, you have uses for more power, such as video editing or other production work, I'd stick with the enthusiast chips.
 
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Frankly, when DX12 games come around, CPU power will be even less of a factor in gaming than it is now. As it stands, you really won't even need an i7 Skylake for gaming. i5 will suffice (which you could replace with i7 if it comes to it).

If, however, you have uses for more power, such as video editing or other production work, I'd stick with the enthusiast chips.

No special uses, im just a hardware fanboy, I like to have good hardware, was replacing my PC once a year before, now that i dont have money to spend like before I want to get one for at least 2 maybe even 3 years (never heard for me)

well you right, im going to check how much its going to cost me the DDR4, with USB 3.1 mobo.
Actually I did Some goggling of 5820K and its HIGHLY overclockable (based on peoples comments), people say you can easily get stable 4.2Ghz, IMHO 4 to 4.2-4.3 stable is enough for me
 

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No special uses, im just a hardware fanboy, I like to have good hardware, was replacing my PC once a year before, now that i dont have money to spend like before I want to get one for at least 2 maybe even 3 years (never heard for me)

well you right, im going to check how much its going to cost me the DDR4, with USB 3.1 mobo.
Actually I did Some goggling of 5820K and its HIGHLY overclockable (based on peoples comments), people say you can easily get stable 4.2Ghz, IMHO 4 to 4.2-4.3 stable is enough for me


Since the next generation chips aren't out yet, it's hard to judge really what will be best, however. If the mainstream desktop chips with dual-channel DDR4 can scale the memory speeds higher, or have a higher default frequency on both cores and cache, then any performance advantage X99's added cache brings is lessened in a big way, never mind when you consider power usage and "cost of ownership".

With my analysis of Intel CPUs, optimal performance/power comes @ 4.6 GHz and 4.2 GHz cache. for most users, CPU speed isn't that important, but that cache speed very much is, and I don't see many overclocking guides focused on optimal system performance... they are more about "finding the max", which I feel can introduce unforeseen problems.

If you were buying today, yes, I'd recommend the 5820K for multi-GPU users. But thats only for multi GPU users. I'm much more likely to recommend the 4690K for a gamer that wants to OC with Z97, but the future Intel stuff.. ask me again after the launch. Nobody that can actually truly answer that question will, since Skylake has yet to hit the open market. :p


Actual performance differences from one generation to the next are so incremental, while you might miss out on something, you are not going to miss out on much. Bit less power usage, bit more performance... but nothing earth-shattering. It doesn't make good business sense for anyone to really release a product such as that.
 
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Since the next generation chips aren't out yet, it's hard to judge really what will be best, however. If the mainstream desktop chips with dual-channel DDR4 can scale the memory speeds higher, or have a higher default frequency on both cores and cache, then any performance advantage X99's added cache brings is lessened in a big way, never mind when you consider power usage and "cost of ownership".

With my analysis of Intel CPUs, optimal performance/power comes @ 4.6 GHz and 4.2 GHz cache. for most users, CPU speed isn't that important, but that cache speed very much is, and I don't see many overclocking guides focused on optimal system performance... they are more about "finding the max", which I feel can introduce unforeseen problems.

If you were buying today, yes, I'd recommend the 5820K for multi-GPU users. But thats only for multi GPU users. I'm much more likely to recommend the 4690K for a gamer that wants to OC with Z97, but the future Intel stuff.. ask me again after the launch. Nobody that can actually truly answer that question will, since Skylake has yet to hit the open market. :p

I just purchased another GTX970 so going to be a multi GPU user :)
Do we have a list of new technologies in the Skylake? I mean is there anything upcoming that worth waiting? Because you and the other guys above are right, I just given some tough on this and new gen Intel CPU these days are maximum 10% faster, so Clock for Clock the Skylake shouldn't be much faster then Broadwell-E, especially because Broadwell has 15Mb of Cache and 2 extra cores.
And if I make a list of Mobo, CPU, RAM and Water cooling and order on Amazon, plus International Shipping and Import tax, even then its going to be 30-40% cheaper then buying locally (see below)
I mean what kind of game has to come that 6 core broadwell at 4.2Ghz with GTZ970 SLI wont be enough in next 3 even 4 years? right? (Probably until next gen consoles come out PS5,X2 and such this setup will be more then enough).


what bothers me with X99 platform is the high DDR4 memory prices.
especially because where I live we have high taxes, so you can take any US price, double it and thats what we pay, for example:

USD google converted.
i7-5820K = 511USD
i7-4790K = 456USD
Cheapest 16GB of 4 Channel DDR4 kit: G.Skill Ripjaws-4 4x4GB DDR4 2400Mhz PC4-19200 Kit CL15-15-15-35 = 340USD :(
 
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Question: If you bought the unneeded hardwer two days ago, why don't you just return it asap, and spend the money on something else what you actually need/can use?
 
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Question: If you bought the unneeded hardwer two days ago, why don't you just return it asap, and spend the money on something else what you actually need/can use?

Over here we have buyer protection laws, like real laws that every shop must abide by, but open box items are not covered (well unless its broken, and even in that case if they can exchange it, no money back)
So Its up to individual shop, but 99% of them wont take back any open box items.

Also I wanted to upgrade, I did a mistake when i purchased this temporally system 8 months ago, I had plans to later buy a good long lasting gameing monster and keep this one as backup and DVD/BluRay burning station, but i dont need burning DVDs anymore and as backup system I decided to get a Chinese Windows 10 Atom x5 tablet when it comes (even the ones they have right now with Chery Trail atom have full functioning windows 8, you can do everything you can on your PC if yours need fixing, you cant do that on Ipad, I have a very not cheap iPad Air2 128Gb/3G but if my main PC breaks and ill need to download something, unpack and copy to usb flash ipad cant do it, but 99$ Windows Tablet can. So im waiting for the time when Chinese upgrade their to latest 14nm Haswell based Atom X5 x7 series (64bit, Gen 8 graphics) the GPU has twice as much cores, even current Atom Tablets, the 99$ ones can play Fallout 3 on medium settings, which is awesome)
 
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Over here we have buyer protection laws, like real laws that every shop must abide by, but open box items are not covered (well unless its broken, and even in that case if they can exchange it, no money back)
So Its up to individual shop, but 99% of them wont take back any open box items.

Also I wanted to upgrade, I did a mistake when i purchased this temporally system 8 months ago, I had plans to later buy a good long lasting gameing monster and keep this one as backup and DVD/BluRay burning station, but i dont need burning DVDs anymore and as backup system I decided to get a Chinese Windows 10 Atom x5 tablet when it comes (even the ones they have right now with Chery Trail atom have full functioning windows 8, you can do everything you can on your PC if yours need fixing, you cant do that on Ipad, I have a very not cheap iPad Air2 128Gb/3G but if my main PC breaks and ill need to download something, unpack and copy to usb flash ipad cant do it, but 99$ Windows Tablet can. So im waiting for the time when Chinese upgrade their to latest 14nm Haswell based Atom X5 x7 series (64bit, Gen 8 graphics) the GPU has twice as much cores, even current Atom Tablets, the 99$ ones can play Fallout 3 on medium settings, which is awesome)
What kind of law is that, how do you know you don't need it if you don't open it and try it? Anyways, tell the seller you buy something else from her/him if she/he takes it back. A good business(wo)man won't let the customer leave unsatisfied.
 

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As a happy I7-5820K owner, I can tell yo that upgrading to X99 platform costs a bit of money, but its worth while(at least for me).

I had this platform since xmas, gave it to myself without tell my wife and it rocks.

As of Skylake, nobody knows yet, but as usual intel will only go 4 core on that, its mainstream, end of story.

As of LGA 2011-v3 goes, that socket will support even next generation CPU's also according to Intels own slides for 2016 which will bring a new CPU for our socket, its just a matter of bios upgrade and into the hands of the vendor of your MB, so its a bit futureproof, if you need more power.

what ever you deside to do, well that your own call, I cant tell you. I can only say going I7-5820K isent the worst choice ive ever made.
 
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As a happy I7-5820K owner, I can tell yo that upgrading to X99 platform costs a bit of money, but its worth while(at least for me).

I had this platform since xmas, gave it to myself without tell my wife and it rocks.

As of Skylake, nobody knows yet, but as usual intel will only go 4 core on that, its mainstream, end of story.

As of LGA 2011-v3 goes, that socket will support even next generation CPU's also according to Intels own slides for 2016 which will bring a new CPU for our socket, its just a matter of bios upgrade and into the hands of the vendor of your MB, so its a bit futureproof, if you need more power.

what ever you deside to do, well that your own call, I cant tell you. I can only say going I7-5820K isent the worst choice ive ever made.

Thanks, im already researching!
For how long do you plan to keep it?
Im thinking of getting ram on amazon, do you think its worth it to get 32Gb instead of 16Gb?

Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 3000Mhz
or
Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400Mhz?
 

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Is there any confirmation Intel will do Broadwell-E? That was the suggestion, giving 2011-3 an upgrade path due to compatible sockets? There has been no mention at all of Skylake-E I believe.
 
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Is there any confirmation Intel will do Broadwell-E? That was the suggestion, giving 2011-3 an upgrade path due to compatible sockets? There has been no mention at all of Skylake-E I believe.

Oh, im sorry for teh confusion, if anywhere i said Broadwell-e, I meant to say Haswell-E.

I was asking if I should get 6 core Haswell-E now or wait for the mainstream 4 core Skylake K in August
 

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Cheapest 16GB of 4 Channel DDR4 kit: G.Skill Ripjaws-4 4x4GB DDR4 2400Mhz PC4-19200 Kit CL15-15-15-35 = 340USD :(


You should be able to find blue G.SKill 300 MHz GRBB kits for just over $200 USD. I just finished a review on that kit, will be posted to the front page here soon. You do need the right board to make them work well, though.
 

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Oh, im sorry for teh confusion, if anywhere i said Broadwell-e, I meant to say Haswell-E.

I was asking if I should get 6 core Haswell-E now or wait for the mainstream 4 core Skylake K in August

It's okay - I knew what you meant. I'm looking at upgrading too - was waiting for W10. But if I upgrade to Haswell-E, do i have an upgrade path on the 2011-3 platform? In other words, what are the 6 core options post Haswell-E?
 

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Don't know at this point. There are rumors Broadwell-E has been scrapped in favor of Skylake-E in Q3 2016. It's possible Skylake-E won't run on X99.
 

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Case White Lian-Li PC-011 Dynamic
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Mouse Steelseries Sensei
Keyboard Corsair K70
Software windows 10 64 pro bit
Thanks, im already researching!
For how long do you plan to keep it?
Im thinking of getting ram on amazon, do you think its worth it to get 32Gb instead of 16Gb?

Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 3000Mhz
or
Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR4 2400Mhz?

I dunno for how long, but at least 3 years from now.

Regarding 16 - 32 GB ram thats a bit tricky as I see it. It all comes down to if you're using very ram intensive programmes.
I use my machine for autocad 3D, videoediting and so on, so I have use for a lot of ram, to make things go as fast as possible.

If you look at my profile, it says i have 16GB of ram, but I have actually upgraded since, so I have now 24GB in my machine, that extra 8GB of ram has given me exactly nothing lol, it was just money out the window ;).
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
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System Name Pioneer
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Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
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Those Ballistix Sport modules will do well under their advertised latencies. I'd go with them. I wouldn't clock above 2400Mhz anyways, the memory controller gets funky on the CPU resulting in instability.
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Joined
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Messages
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I wouldn't clock above 2400Mhz anyways, the memory controller gets funky on the CPU resulting in instability.
Only on some boards. There's a night and day difference from board to board, and these problems are why my memory reviews currently don't show OC results. Some boards can't boot 2666 MHz divider, some can boot all teh way up to 3400 MHz, without BCLK adjustments.

AS to 16 GB vs 32, yeah, 32 GB of the same speed is faster for sure.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
20,714 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches
Software Windows 11 Enterprise (legit), Gentoo Linux x64
Only on some boards. There's a night and day difference from board to board, and these problems are why my memory reviews currently don't show OC results. Some boards can't boot 2666 MHz divider, some can boot all teh way up to 3400 MHz, without BCLK adjustments.

AS to 16 GB vs 32, yeah, 32 GB of the same speed is faster for sure.

Interesting. I take it the ASUS X99-A I am running is one of the poor ones then...
 
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