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Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Discussion in 'System Builder's Advice' started by TBGAPowa, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. TBGAPowa

    TBGAPowa New Member

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    --I have this question posted on multiple forums so bare with me here as my replies will be much slower.
    -AS FOR THE PEOPLE recommending me WC I honestly feel intimidated by it. I chose an air cooling case but I still am not sure to choose a water cooling enabled one since I am not positive if I go WC in the future.
    -I will order from mostly canadian sites but will order from other places if necessary. The preferred retailer list I posted isn't that vital.

    UNAVAILABLE ON NEWEGG CANADA:

    Monitor: Dell UltraSharp U2312HM
    CPU HSF: Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E
    Headphones: Sennheiser PC 350 or 360
    Tablet: Wacom Bamboo Splash

    This is my first build from scratch my gaming orientation leans on rpgs, mmos, action-adventure and rts for the most part and less so for fps and racing games.

    Approximate Purchase Date:
    By the end of July
    Budget Range:
    Under $3k subtotal including everything base system, monitor, peripherals etc…
    System Usage from Most to Least Important:
    Extensive gaming and production/rendering in autodesk and other 3D/CG art software
    Parts Not Required:
    Not planning on getting a custom water cooling system just yet
    Preferred Website(s) for Parts:
    Newegg Canada
    TigerDirect Canada
    Canada Computers
    NCIX
    Country:
    Canada
    Parts Preferences:
    Nvidia, visuals for the most part
    Storage Space:
    2TB minimum
    Overclocking:
    Likely
    SLI or Crossfire:
    Possibly SLI
    Monitor Resolution:
    1920x1080 or 2560x1440. I would like to have games on maxed settings, AA would be nice and what ever gaming technology optimization available
    Additional Comments:
    my newegg wishlist

    anything sold out on the list i will look for else where, as long as they have good enough return policy

    Really looking for some of the top and latest support with longevity, durability and silence

    the rig would be placed in the basement which is usually around 20C, during the humid summer it should be closer to 30C room temp but we almost always AC then. the only thing about the basement i am worried about is if airflow wouldn't be good enough for the rig

    would a heatsink fan suffice for now? if i ever choose to SLI would water cooling be needed then?
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
  2. popswala

    popswala New Member

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    Why not a NZXT switch 810 case, Corsair Vengeance K90 keyboard, gelid or xigmatek case fans?
    nleksan says thanks.
  3. TBGAPowa

    TBGAPowa New Member

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    NZXT 810 case is out of stock on newegg and may not be restocked, i am already purchasing a gameboard so i do not need additional function mmo keys on a keyboard just the basic and i don't know too much of the benefits varying from the fan brands you mentioned and the cooler master ones i plan on purchasing
  4. Dent1

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    3k really? Your budget should be half of that.
    digibucc says thanks.
  5. TBGAPowa

    TBGAPowa New Member

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    what about having the longevity of lasting 2 years, if i cut down by half how long would u think the rig would last in comparison to the former?
  6. popswala

    popswala New Member

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    The keyboard is mechanical which is way better then standard. Once you use one you'll see why. The fans I mentioned are higher speeds and more air flow and look nice. I've use both and I'm happy with them. I didn't notice if that case was out of stock but its worth looking into. Tons of features and looks great. I have the 932 and got bored over it quickly due to it just being boxie and plain. all this is just my opinion though.
  7. Fourstaff

    Fourstaff Moderator Staff Member

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    Don't get the EVGA 670, get Asus Direct CU II 670 instead. 1200W is also overkill, 850w is more than enough, even for 670 SLi and also accounting for 3 year degradation. Cut the Logitech G13 too, and use the money to get a better keyboard. Get an IPS screen if you are doing some CG art, the colour should be a lot more accurate. Cut the controller, get a better mouse than the Razer Naga (unless you need lots of thumb keys), get a cheaper mousepad (if you need one at all), you can sub the Noctua D14 to something like Coolermaster CM 212+ if you don't mind the noise (judging by the 4 fans you bought, you don't really care about noise). And get the scanner when you need it.
  8. cadaveca

    cadaveca My name is Dave

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    From what I hear, nV is teh way to go for what you want to run.


    I got a few issues with your parts though...


    1200 W PSU? Try maybe a 750 W.

    2700K? How about you take the cash saved from the PSU, and get a 3770K?


    Wacom Bamboo? I am not even a pro artist, and I got me an Intuos. You should too.


    Fans? You don't need them.

    Monitor? Why not IPS? I know it's more expensive, but it is for a good reason, IMHO.
  9. TBGAPowa

    TBGAPowa New Member

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    why should i get the Asus 670 over the evga ftw?
  10. digibucc

    digibucc

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    yes, 2 years would be easy- it depends on what you do of course.
    but even if your budget is 3k, i'd spend half now and upgrade down the road(gpu specifically), that would get you the most longevity at the best price point.
  11. TBGAPowa

    TBGAPowa New Member

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    Quoted from a member named lehpron from the EVGA forums "But, in order to maintain your CPU stabilty; your RAM, HDD, motherboard, PSU, etc all have to be in sync and stable too. So while the CPU could theoretically take the punishment, total system stability depends on the other junk in the system."
    http://www.evga.com/forums/fb.ashx?m=277197

    updated the list

    i hope the hhds would suffice, they do get great ratings i believe the others are good enough.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  12. TBGAPowa

    TBGAPowa New Member

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  13. [XC] Oj101

    [XC] Oj101

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  14. TBGAPowa

    TBGAPowa New Member

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    is 16 gb RAM 1600 enough or should I go higher 1866/2133/2400? i changed some of the parts again
  15. cadaveca

    cadaveca My name is Dave

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  16. [XC] Oj101

    [XC] Oj101

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    I forgot to specify, four of those RAM kits for 64 GB. That board is one of a few that have eight DIMM slots, and it's about the best in its class hence my recommendation.
  17. Random Murderer

    Random Murderer The Anti-Midas

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    Agreed. Unless you plan on extreme overclocking or benching for records, the Rampage IV Extreme is overkill. Take it from a guy who owns one. I'm still waiting on my CPU and VGA pots, then I'll be doing some sub-zero benching and attempting to break records for older video cards. :rockout:
    Really, any of the P9X79 boards are great choices. If you're going X79, most of the boards I'd recommend would be Asus(X79 Sabretooth, P9X79 WS, P9X79 Pro, P9X79 Deluxe, Rampage IV Formula if having only 4 RAM slots doesn't bother you), with one or two ASRock boards(X79 Champion, X79 Extreme9) and then one particular MSI, the Big Bang XPower II.
    Just be aware that if you do go the X79 route, you'll need at least an 800W PSU, more if you plan on running more than one graphics card and/or overclocking. My suggestion would be a decent 1000W PSU at the very least. Even the 4-core 3820 is very power hungry, and that power draw only increases when you add two more cores(the 3930k or 3960x) and even more when you overclock. A guy over at Anandtech did a few tests measuring the power drawn from the 12V CPU power cables only, and at stock his 3960x was drawing nearly 175W. A mild overclock to 4.4GHz pushed it to over 250W, and when he really started to push it, he stabilized it at 4.8GHz and it was drawing 350W! That's the processor alone, add in a high-end motherboard supporting that overclock and a high-end graphics card and you're already looking at 700-750W.
    SB-E is incredible, I'm not saying otherwise, but it definitely surprised me just how power hungry it is.

    Overall, for $3000, you should be able to build one hell of a system, SB-E or not.
  18. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    They're great (picture quality wise). The stands on them are horrible and wobbly, but that's what you're going to get for a sub $400 dollar high resolution IPS monitor. There is also no warranty on them.
  19. TheMailMan78

    TheMailMan78 Big Member

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    12" Intuos? Waste of money. 8" is enough. Also if you are working off this computer and such stay away from the overclocking. Nothing worse then a simple little minor hiccup that will corrupt days worth of work.

    See my rig?
    <<<

    I make my living as an artist with it.
  20. TBGAPowa

    TBGAPowa New Member

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    direct quote from member lehpron from the EVGA forums, sorry its huge but this sums up why i chose the type of mobo, GPU and CPU. but of course still subject to change

    "Most modern games are threaded for between 2-4 cores, and it has been a slow progress adoption since quads have been around for six years, duals for eight years. meaning, a 6-core won't make a difference today. New games take 2-3 years to make from the ground up, so in that time, it will make a quad that much more important. Only get the 6-core for your professional work, not for gaming.

    3770K is a 22nm quad and half the die area (thus half the actual power and thermals if set at the same frequency) as 32nm i7-3900's 6-cores; mathematically, they should overclock better, but Intel differed from tradition of soddering the CPU die to the IHS (integrated heat spreader) by using a thermal grease with Ivy Bridge which tends to artificially raise temperaturess. This prevents anyone from really being able to push it except for those using cryogenics; so in the end, all Sandy and Ivy processors reach a max of approx 5GHz regardless of number of cores.

    So it all comes down to the board really; X79 can support up to 4-way SLI (in quad x8, or a pair of full x16) configs while Z77 is limited to just dual x8's. If you're serious about longitivity in terms of having the room for future graphics cards and not change the board (which definitely need more bandwidth than current), then X79 is the only option. For CPU, either get quad 3820 or 6-core 3930K depending on how often your professional uses need 12-threads or not.

    BTW, as for the GTX670's, get the 4GB card. We'll soon see a new standard for mainstream monitors that used to be the reign of medicial professionals, their total single display res equals to a modern multi-display setup. So if you intend on at least one in the next two years and not upgrading graphics for it, then you should plan ahead with a 4GB model and get 3-way SLI by then to compensate.

    TBGAPowa

    Really looking for longevity and durability I chose a gtx 670 in hopes of being able to run graphic intensive art programs and gaming on high settings for at least two years before upgrade/new build.
    This part will require an edit for realism.

    In two years, a pair of GTX670 will have the performance equivalency of a future mainstream card (i.e. "GTS850" )and unable to run those games appearing then at high details without having the frame rates dip whatever is high-end at time. So either plan to get into 3-way or 4-way SLI (meaning you need to get a 4-way capable board in the first place, i.e. X79), think about upgrading your graphics card much earlier than two years, or settle for less visuals as times passes especially if you plan a higher resolution monitor someday. Most games are GPU-intensive, so if your resolution doubles the pixels, you cut your frame rates in half.

    The only way you can truly have longivity is if your expectation is much lower than what is available for purchase. If you want max detail at smooth rates, then that is only possible today, it isn't possible next year with this year's configuration running next year's games. Just so you know, many folks on enthusiast websites like these upgrade often as a hobby, they choose to keep up with technology in order to maintain their preference level in every new game; I personally see it as a hassle. So you have to decide your upgrade tendencies beforehand and plan ahead, beyond this upcoming build. "

    http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?high=&m=1650704&mpage=1#1650704
  21. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

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    Dave recommended the P9X79 Deluxe for my rig and I've been loving it. Since I initially flashed the BIOS I haven't had a single issue with this board. It will scream no matter what SB-E chip you drop into it.

    If it's really that important you should be running a Xeon with ECC memory if you really don't want corrupted data. Honestly SB-E can push reasonable clocks without a hick-up, you just have to ensure its stability first and not go too gung-ho on the voltages and clocks. Either way an OC shouldn't be needed, a 6-core SB-E will throw down just about any CPU currently out with these workloads any day and really is worth it. Just imagine what IVB-E will be able to do when that comes out as well.

    With all of that said, I have a 3820 and I'm perfectly happy with it and its a good option if you don't want to spend twice as much for only 2 more cores or if you plan to move to IVB-E when that comes out but if you're going to be using this professionally, just invest in the 3930k.

    I guess my question is: You said that you will be using this for not just gaming but for various other applications that utilize more cores/threads very well. What will you primarily be using this for? Is it going to be a work machine that you professional use with occasional gaming, or will it primarily be for gaming with occasional CAD and CG?
    nleksan says thanks.
  22. cadaveca

    cadaveca My name is Dave

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    I don't agree with most of that post. Like 90% is wrong, IMHO. Maybe even 100%.

    That Rampage Extreme board is made for LN2 overclocking.

    The P9X79 Deluxe is a mainstream product, with nearly all the bells and whistles of the Rampage board, but supports less cards, and doesn't have the extreme overclocking features. Choosing the P9X79 board over the Rampage will NOT limit overclocking in any way, unless you plan on running LN2.

    Based on the needs you listed, it's the better choice, both for longevity, but also for your wallet. Part of the reason for the high price is in inclusion of the "OC KEY", which, you'll probably enver use..that's an overclocking tool for benchers.

    HEre's ASUS's bullets on it:

    •X-Socket - Get more life out of your LGA1366 CPU coolers
    •OC Key - The key to real time monitoring and overclocking!
    •Subzero Sense - Find out how cold your board is
    •VGA Hotwire - Hotwire your system


    Do you need those features? And how much extra does it cost to make the most of them?


    Extreme overclocking, obviously, was the Rampage's focus. That doesn't mean it's a better board...it's just better if you plan on trying to break world record benchmark scores. IF that's what you are after, then maybe you should consider that board, but if not, then don't. I'll never suggest that something that costs more is better...and in this instance, it really is not the case. It's jsut differnt, and those differences do come at a cost. BAsedo nwhat you've said, none of those differences will benefit you.

    As to game performance between platforms, most titles are console ports, and will continue to be for some time. New consoles aren't out yet, nobody knows the exact specifications of those consoles either, so trying to cover performance needs noone knows anything about, well...isn't going to get very far.

    I do agree that planning to buy another VGA in a year or two is prudent..that's the one thing i agree with. So save your money now, as in a couple of years, you might want to upgrade.

    When it comes to gaming today, there is virtually no difference between a 3960X @ 4.6 GHZ, and a 3770K at 4.6 GHz. I have both, so have checked the performance of both, used both for gaming for many weeks, and even swapped from one to the next and back again, all while playing with TPU members on our BF3 teamspeak. Either one will give you the same end performance, one will cost more to buy, and cost more to run, too.


    Oh, and a quick comparison for you.


    3DMark 11, 3960X @ 4.6 GHz, 16 GB @ 2133 MHz 9-11-10-28, dual 6950's @ 840/1325:

    10341 3DMarks

    http://3dmark.com/3dm11/3586074


    3770K @ 4.6 GHz, 16 GB @ 2133 MHz, 9-11-20-28, dual 6950's @ 840/1325:

    10462 3DMarks

    http://3dmark.com/3dm11/3678198


    So where's the benefit from the extra cores? Most people will tell you, when it comes to gaming, there is none, except for just a couple of titles. And it seems that 3DMark 11 agrees. Of course, I still have both systems, so I could post more benchmarks if needed, but I don't really think they are.

    Oh, and one last thing...I review motherboards and memory here on TPU, which is why i have access to such systems so easily. Please do take the time to read my motherbnoard reviews here, and come to your own conclusions.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
    TBGAPowa, Aquinus, [XC] Oj101 and 2 others say thanks.
  23. [XC] Oj101

    [XC] Oj101

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    I didn't know about the P9X79 Deluxe, somehow my Googling missed it. Thanks :)

    The Gigabyte GA-X79-UD5 is also an option.
  24. TBGAPowa

    TBGAPowa New Member

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    i've decided to go with 3770k + z77 over the former

    as for the computer i later down the road i will be working primarily on 3d/cg but for now i may invest a bit more time into gaming as 2d art work will be involved as well. by the time i reach the level of professional usage i would likely have a newer build
  25. cadaveca

    cadaveca My name is Dave

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    For multi-GPU, the Gigabyte GA-X79-UD5 is one of the best boards on the market, as it's one of maybe two or three that have all three PCIe slots wired directly to the CPU without anything in-between, giving the very best connection possible for multiple VGAs. It seems that boards that use bridge chips add latency to the PCIe with those bridges, and I'm talking about things like the ASM1440 PCIe bridges, not the PLX PEX8487!

    The problem with that board, though, is that the VRM cooling isn't the best, and when the board is populated with three VGAs, the PCH cooler gets hot...and is connected to the VRM with a heatpipe, so the VRM cooler gets hot as well.

    Do keep us updated as you get the parts in, and start building. I do love a good build log.

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