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AMD A10-7850 FlanK3r preview with Asus A88X PRO

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by FlanK3r, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. FlanK3r

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    We seen first APU Llano two and half years ago. This APU was AMD 12h family, very similar to 10h AMD family as all Phenoms II/Athlons II stars CPUs. Performance of Llano APUs was not bad, specially iGPU was great, but Phenoms II were better alternative. The FM1 socket had one year longevity.
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    After this AMD presents 15h family do desktop. New Bulldozer chips with good multithread performance, but not good single thread performance and high power comsumption. Zambezi BD was full of bugs, so AMD worked at new Piledriver cores and edhanced Zambezi in same time. At October 2012 coming new APU, to FM2 socket, AMD Trinity. This APU has similar performance as Llano, but with better iGPU part and with better power consumption with good overclocking ability. Next 10 months and to FM2 coming light refresh with better P-state and higher clocks - AMD Richland. I must to say, I liked A10 Richlands. Awesome OC, good scaling with voltage, still low power consumption after OC. These two 15h APUs are FM2 chips, but working also in FM2+.

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    Today is the D day from AMD, second generation of 15h APU is here, AMD Kaveri with Steamroller B. Chips are manufactured at 4Q 2013 and today are ready for sale and for reviews of

    course :). Whats new here? Kaveri is AMD most advanced APU ever, with very good IPC (instruction per clock). We can talking about new GCN iGPU architecture inside, about new 28nm SHP process, HUMA controller, HSA support, AMD Trueadio, PCIe 3.0 and configurable TDP.

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    APU die size is 245mm, almost the same as in Richland/Trinity. But there is 2.41 bilion tranzisotrs! This is almost double more than before! This is because SHP process, higher

    density at die size. SHP is "mixed" bulk and SOI. So good for iGPU, good for CPU tranzistors, but worse for the highest clock. Thats why Kaveri clocks are -400 MHz lower than with Richland.

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    Configurable TDP is one interesting part for notebooks segment. But working very well in desktop (we can know it from Haswell). There is slide from 65W and 45W part and performance in 3D Mark Firestrike with iGPU. Richland 65w is A8-6500, 45W is A8-6700T. The drop in score is around 250 points. But what Kaveri? Kaveri 65W is A8-7600. We can change TDP of CPU in BIOS for 45W at the same model. And performance? Wow, only few points lower than before!

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    Diagram of Steamroller B Kaveri. CPU cores with shared L2, IO part, iGPU part with up to 8 units and HUMA controller at left.

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    New chipset A88X is almost the same as A85X for FM2. One difference is PCIe 3.0, if we using Kaveri chip, and AHCI update. I have only A85x screenshot for representation...A78 and A55 are next chipsets of FM2+.


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    Kaveri including up to 12 compute cores. Why? There is (in 7850K) 4 CPU cores and 8 GPU compute cores of GCN. So programmable for parallel compute. Simply pure CPU performance clock to clock is up to 20% better than Piledriver core! Wow. How about improving seems AMD! But of course, the clocks of Kaveri are -400 MHz lower and after all is Kaveri slighty better than Richland A10-6800K (around 5% average at CPU part).
    GPU part is very good. The gain is similar as from Llano to Trinity. But there is GCN, DX11.2+Mantle and new TrueAudio. The top R7 iGPU has 8 gpu units with 512 stream processors, 32 texture units and 16 ROPs.

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    The main stone of Kaveri is again one module. This module has two cores with shared L2 cache 2MB, few pipelines and some specialized units (128 FMAC and MMX). L1D cache is now higher - 96KB and 3-way. Dont forget about Kaveri isntruction set - FMA4/3, AVX, AES, XOP.


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    iGPU part is 47% of all die size. Again GCN concept as Hawai example working with DDR3 2133 MHz native (but it working with 2666 MHz OK at kaveri). iGPU part support Mantle, DX11.2, AMD Trueaudio, Eyfinity or acceleration UVD and working VCE. GPU part and CPU part can working together for compute - heterogeneous. So GPU and CPU have equal flexibility to create work. HSA compute are writing in opencl or C++ or few next language. This languages named as HSAL. HSAL is supporting now by few programs, example Photoshop, Libre
    Office, Gimp etc. HSA are there great for saved time here. There is few examples of HSA.

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    Now we are back to pure iGPU performance in gaming. Finally some modern games at FullHD without lagging!

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    Or popular LOL game
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    Kaveri seems strong with dedicated card too, Im sure, better than Piledriver.
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    iGPU features as Mantle and TrueAudio are next benifits.
    Whats Mantle exactly? Its new alternative to DX. But with benefits from GCN architecture for higher FPS (up to 40% boost!). Simply we can play games with worse cards than before. Next good idea is, you dont need Windows 8 for latest gaming effects! This will be working in theory with Windows XP too! At least with Windows 7 at 100%.AMD Trueaudio is less stress for CPU and better sound quality in games. Sound was limit of modern games. Now not must be. In iGPU parts are few audio coprocessors. And again programeable :).
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    Today AMD launched 3 models of Kaveri. The top model A10-7850K, the A10-7700K and great TDP model A8-7600. All specs are in tab. So :
    *CPU contains a new core Steamroller B on 28nm SHP process with clocks to 3.7 / 4 GHz
    *CPU cores are now more than 4, support the new ISA instructions, FMA4 / 3, AVX, AES, XOP
    *shared L2 cache has a capacity of 2MB for one module (dual-core)
    *the processor has a integrated PCIe 3.0 controller
    *GPU part of the GCN architecture, core up to 720 MHz and up to 512 stream processors
    *rendering effects up to 8x AF AA/16x
    *Support Displayport 1.2, AMD Eyefinity, support for 4K video, support for UVD and VCE
    *CPU and GPU together and communicate with each other, native support for DDR3 memory is 2400 MHz with AMP profile
    *TDP APU is configurable in the range of 45, 65 and 95 W
    *Support A88X chipset, A78 and A55, belonging socket FM2 +
    *support the calculation of HSA, AMD TrueAudio a so-called API (DirectX 11.2/Mantle)
    *support the involvement of dual graphics accelerators

    http://pctuning.tyden.cz/ilustrace3/flanker/Kaveri/balen%C3%AD.jpg[img]

    [img]http://pctuning.tyden.cz/ilustrace3/flanker/Kaveri/TDP_bios.png
    TDP for change please?:)


    Now going to test system :). I used AMD Gamer memory 2133 MHz, Asus A88X PRO with the last BIOS, big Corsair AX 1200 PSU, SSD Kingston HyperX 120GB and A10-7850K CPU. For comparison few others - A10-6800K, A8-3870K, FX-4300+FX-6300 and mostrum Haswell i7-4770K :) ( I have not core i3).
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    The gold, the new, the A88X PRO.

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    something is inside....:)

    So, ready for preview tests? I am :)

    Superpi is old benchamrk, this is pure x87 without help instruciton set. This programs are dead todays, but it is good for comparison simillar architecture.
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    *kaveri is impressive here. With the lower clocks beat all AMD CPUs.

    AIDA memory tests
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    *In AIDA is little improvement with Kaveri, specially in read

    Cinebench R11.5
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    *With -400 Mhz clocks slightly win for Kaveri, not bad again.

    Fritzchess benchmark - multithread with hard load of chess simulation
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    *almost +400 points for Kaveri with lower frequency is very nice, specially here.

    Wprime 1024M
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    *wow, simply wow....There is crazy performance gain, more than 100s quicker and this 2CU/4C APU won with FX-6300!

    x264FHD benchmark, 1080P
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    * more than 0.5 FPS in 1080P is not nothing, this benchmark is very hard for every FPS up in CPU encoding

    3D Mark vantage Performance test
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    * Kaveri can fly here. Huge improvement.

    3D Mark 11 Performance
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    *After this score, I cant believe. Over 2400 points at stock. This score had my Richland after CPU/iGPU and memory OC (46xx Mhz CPU, 11xxMHz iGPU and over 2500 MHz memory!) !

    3D Mark Fire Strike
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    *there is more than 100 points, not bad, but I think with new drivers could be better

    Aliens vs Predator DX11 1920x1080, high details, 0x AA, 16x AF.
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    *its is hardly playable, but without comfort. For 30FPS I must set 0x AF and low/medium details without teselation ON.

    Far Cry 2, DX10 1920x1080, very high details, high physic, 0x AA
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    * +4 FPS at FHD is not really bad. Believe, at 1280x1024 will be higher FPS gain!

    For review I had not much time. So only this preview. I believe, you will like review and in future bring some more tests, OC and more photos of board for you. And you know what?

    Do you heard about Asus 4-way optimization? If not, its simply way for auto OC with set of power state/idle mode, save some energy and VRM controll, intelligent regulation of fans without noise. Look at this nice auto overl:banana::banana::banana::banana:ing!
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    Michal "FlanK3r"
    vargis14, Mathragh, emissary42 and 5 others say thanks.
  2. RCoon

    RCoon Forum Gypsy

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    Can always rely on you man ;)
    Nice graphs and stuff, but everybody knows most man-shoot games don't give a rats ass about CPU performance, and rarely makes any difference. All that stuff is done on the GPU. The onboard GPU seems capable though, 32FPS on BF4 seems impressive, perhaps a little too unbelievable if you ask me.
  3. west7

    west7

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    thank you sir and good job 2400points in 3dmark 11 for igpu its awsome i wonder what score its gets with r7 card
  4. Kärlekstrollet New Member

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    This could be a killer on the market for cheap LoL machines.
    AlienIsGOD says thanks.
  5. Pehla

    Pehla

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    yeah maybe my pc in next month or two!! i wana see how it perform with dual graphic...
    but it is kinda litle pricey at the start!!but then again BF4 is worth at least 40 bucks...
  6. suraswami

    suraswami

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    Nice Preview.
  7. ...PACMAN...

    ...PACMAN...

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    So a kaveri chip with a dedicated card is faster than a 4670k with the same card? Really?
  8. Steevo

    Steevo

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    Can you run a memory latency test for it?
    10 Million points folded for TPU
  9. FlanK3r

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    The CPU going back to distributor :(. Im trying now few OC test, max stable is 4544 MHz with 1.45V, I could get 4600 MHz, but I need 1.55V :)
  10. TRWOV

    TRWOV

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    I suppose he's running into a GPU bottleneck, otherwise the graph doesn't make a lot of sense. Not to crap on Kaveri but a powerhouse it isn't.
    ...PACMAN... says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  11. Pehla

    Pehla

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    can someone tel me how much beter cpu cores on this chip are against my old phenom ll 810!!i dont need it to be compared to intel cpu becouse i just wana nwo how much beter it is then my cpu..
    curent cpu i use non OC(becouse shity MB),and hd 4890 1gb,and i play most of games max detail,high in some and on freakin non optimized world of tanks at medium setings!!
    so i was wondering if i use this apu and make dual gpu with some r7 card how much performance would i gain!! i know it is hard to just put it out,but that info i need,thnx in advance
  12. Frick

    Frick Fishfaced Nincompoop

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    The CrossfireX thing has been pretty uneven in the past. Some games actually got slower with it enabled. I'd wait for reviews for that.
  13. FlanK3r

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    Phenom II 810 is without L3 cache, this CPUs are slower than Athlons with Piledriver cores. The Steamroller core is clock to clock around 10% better than Piledriver core.
  14. emissary42

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    @FlanK3r: Thanks for your work! Did you bother testing for max BCLK and MCLK?
  15. FlanK3r

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    I would like with my chip (so later), but with AHCI is lock around 105 MHz :(. Next time I must install IDE only.
  16. emissary42

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    Yeah, AHCI and VGA did crap out around that with Trinity/Richland as well. But with Legacy-mode and DVI-out a BCLK of 170+ shouldn't be a problem^^
  17. Xaser04

    Xaser04

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    Nice review!.

    The 7850k (and 7700K) look decent enough but the UK pricing is letting them down.

    For around £30 more than the 7850K I bought my wife a 760K + HD7850 combo. In terms of raw gaming performance it was well worth the extra. Normal every day peformance will be basically identical (760K being a 6800K minus the iGPU)
  18. FlanK3r

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    First OC results, more tomorow

    1.455V for CPU, 1.3V for iGPU = 4544 MHz and 104x MHz iGPU, 30min stress test
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    Cinebenchr R11.5
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    3D Mark11, seems limitation of APUNB and memory. I think, this clocks of iGPU needs more juice from memory. 2666 MHz at least.
    [​IMG]
  19. FlanK3r

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    So gonna for some OC test...and few interestings. This is not full version of review, but most of them is here now. SOme clock to clock comparison, win7 vs win8.1, more OC and HSA tests will be in official review next month.

    First we talking about autooc. Asus give me 4200 MHz and 960 MHz at iGPU part. This is not bad. Nice things for beginners and people scared from BIOS settings :).

    3D Mark11
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    AIDA GPU test
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    wprime 1.55
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    Max stable OC for CPU and iGPU
    In AMD Overdrive stability test I got 4544 MHz and 104x MHz at iGPU part R7. For CPU I needed decent 1.455 V in BIOS and 1.315 V for APUNB (iGPU). Im sue, 4600 MHz is possible, but with very high voltage. So I left only 4544 MHz. iGPU is very strong. Im limited RAMs. First low clock memory for this GPU engine and second Sammi from AMD told me about single sided limits for iGPU score. Unfortunatelly, my RAMs are single sided :).

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    3D Mark11
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    AVP benchmarks - these benchmark is harder than real game of AVP. You can try it.
    1920x1080, high settings, 16AF, tesselation
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    1920x1080, medium settings+tesselation
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    1680x1020, medium settings+tesselation
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    AIDA Memory and cache test
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    Wprime 1.55
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    Cinebench R11.5 - single and multi CPU score
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    Cinebench R15
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    Fritzchess benchmark
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    Truecrypt
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    x264FHD test in 1080P
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    Superpi 32M (as 5100 MHz Richland)
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    demonkevy666 wanted what about cores unit. I must CPU return back, until Il have new only for me :). But I benchmarking two test for you :D

    First 1CU/2C, so classic one module
    All test I did with 4 GHz clock, Cinebench R11.5 and Fritzchess benchmark

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    Now 2CU/2C, so two modules with two active cores

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    We can see, 2CU/2C is really better!


    Others tests:

    3D Mark Vantage, CPU stable clock, iGPU autoclock
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    Cinebench R11.5 at 4645 MHz
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    Cinebench R15 at 4645 MHz
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    Fritzchess benchmark
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    Superpi 1M at 4793 MHz, I had run with 4850 MHz, but worse score...
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    Superpi 32M at 4799 MHz, this score is as 5300 MHz Richland :), Kaveri is in 32M very effective.
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    What about power consumption?

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    I was not surprised about lower consumed number in load. But higher idle. Why? I do not know, maybe BIOS or board, Richland and Trinity I tested with another board...Remember, I use high PSU 1200W Corsair for test, with normal 350-400W PSU will be value lower.
    After OC is Kaveri really quicker than OC Richland, in all test is winner, sometimes very clearly (wprime, R11.5, superpi, 3D Mark, AVP) and with lower power consumption.
    Steevo says thanks.
  20. Steevo

    Steevo

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    So what I am seeing here is a slight fix for the L2 cache latency, and if this chip didn't have the GPU included and instead had 4 more cores and some higher speed L3 cache.......
    10 Million points folded for TPU

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