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Editorial AMD Didn't Get the R9 Fury X Wrong, but NVIDIA Got its GTX 980 Ti Right

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Which has exactly what to do with this thread ?- oh, thats right!.... Absolutely nothing.
Keep up the capslock, bolding, and mouth foaming - it really adds to your argument.
Now this is unnecessary.

Feel better now?
Did you felt better when you attacked me there, trying to humiliate me, comparing me with Charlie for example? I occasionally post at TPU. Not enough time to dislike anyone.

BTW: My bad on the other thread. I should have done some more research.
I am only keeping this. Most people don't have the courage to accept that they did a mistake.
 
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Well, I did mention it in passing, but most people are fixated on gaming rather than the industry as a whole. Which is strange considering that the larger picture dictates what products, how many, and in what timeframe we see future Radeon branded cards.
Exactly this thread went off the rails within the first page. Honestly I had not dug through all these posts, I went to the end by like the second page. But yes the issue is neither want to be suck with inventory, and to accomplish that having other Professional sku's does add to the profit margins to obtain a payback.

You seem to have forgotten the Quadro line entirely. The M6000 is currently in the channel, while it seems it will be joined by further Maxwell 2 variants when this years SIGGRAPH rolls around.
You stay up on that side of Green team, it's hard to forget something that I've never read about. It appears to have been brushed-over in its mid-March announcement, bowled-over with TitanX, I suppose I see how I missed that. The Anandtech article was one of a handful that mentioned it in any detail. Come-one... SIGGRAPH was from an article yesterday, super big news on lower-end, not about these big chips. Sidetrack much?

If history is any indicator, the Nvidia card at a lower price will be the 980 Ti. Nvidia still have to release a full-die GM 200 GTX-number series card ( as seen with the 780 Ti / Titan Black). I would assume that Nvidia's product release cadence (in the face of a minimal urgency now that the Fury X has been realized) would be to ready it for the high sales volume fourth quarter holiday season, since both companies have shot their wad architecturally speaking for the foreseeable future.
So you'd say they run the 980Ti MSRP down in the stank and work a full-fledged GM200 on a new numbered GTX in above. Then there are surly GM200's that are below the current 980Ti gelding spec, do we see how they perhaps need to use those?

enthusiast sector, whether single card or multi-GPU, has never been a significant proportion of the buying public. Tech sites tend to give a distorted view of uptake. Go to a mainstream site and uptake looks better than any random gathering of people, go to a specialist enthusiast/OC/benchmark/hard-mod site and you'd swear that entry level is a single (minimum) top tier card an multiple diaplays and/or 4K. Sales of ultra enthusiast (say $600+) cards might be in the order of tens of thousands- maybe six figures if you're lucky, balanced out in a total market of fifty million in the year.
Exactly, lots of this engineering progression, hinges on understanding the market expansion. Not being in the right point of the curve to offer enough of the right product, or too much wrong ones can stick you in this case with costly inventory (aka Tahiti). I do say Nvidia is good at reading the tea-leaves and getting mix right.

While we might be seeing some Enthusiast from just a year or so ago starting to feel the "drum-beat" of 4K, I see it’s more reality in the next node shrink. I perhaps think there’s gamers that might try 3x 1440p for Eyefinity/Surround if the price was right, that’s perhaps a better the hook to sell these top-end cards.

What I was postulating, is mainstream gamers need to see the path in transitioning from 1080p. It seems right today panel manufactures aren't or can't move higher resolution and their subsequent tech down in price, so the whole thing goes stagnate. Sure GPU side can offer the hardware (what they can within 28nm); however folk aren’t going to buy into that if they can’t see a monitor(s) upgrade as obtainable in the near term. I really thought panel manufactures would've ran with the whole Adaptive Sync to aid in some new market push, but it (or they) don’t seem to be generating that momentum. A mainstream gamer (@1080p) should be able right now to realize a card that's in a $280-400 range, and then see in the relative near future decent though generic 1440p Adaptive Sync panel for $350-400. From where I’m watching, I’m not sensing a move in that direction.
 
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You stay up on that side of Green team, it's hard to forget something that I've never read about. It appears to have been brushed-over in its mid-March announcement, bowled-over with TitanX, I suppose I see how I missed that. The Anandtech article was one of a handful that mentioned it in any detail. Come-one... SIGGRAPH was from an article yesterday, super big news on lower-end, not about these big chips. Sidetrack much?
Meanwhile the M6000 was the first actual hard evidence regarding GM 200 to surface ( that was a fun thread - it had it all, bogus charts claimed as real, claims of Fiji being on GloFo's 20nm low power process, Fiji stomping over everything), and the first pictures and specs. As for side-tracking, I believe all I was doing was correcting a factual error on your part. as you were the one that bought up GM 200's supposed lack of pro-graphics parts.
 
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As for side-tracking, I believe all I was doing was correcting a factual error on your part. as you were the one that bought up GM 200's supposed lack of pro-graphics parts.
On the GM200 it's nice to be enlightened. As to side-tacking, you bringing up the whole SIGGRAPH, it seemed like it was in there to send it back down some rabbit hole.
SIGGRAPH was from an article yesterday, super big news on lower-end, not about these big chips. Sidetrack much?
 
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In 12 of the 22 games of w1z's charts it is actually faster than the 980ti. In that chart I count 12 games. I haven't bothered to see if they are the same games.



http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_r9_fury_x_review,11.html



Haven't watched the video, but it is the fastest in cherry picked tests. Which is the point of PR, and as far as I'm concerned they haven't told lies. Picking on a company for PR speak is like hating the sky because it's blue, or the sun because it shines.

Techpowerup's benchmarks always skew towards Nvidia since they include Batman/AC gamesworks garbage. In the Tomshardware review the Titan X and Fury X benched exactly the same. Titan X won by 1% in 1440p and the opposite happened in 4K.
 

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Techpowerup's benchmarks always skew towards Nvidia since they include Batman/AC gamesworks garbage. In the Tomshardware review the Titan X and Fury X benched exactly the same. Titan X won by 1% in 1440p and the opposite happened in 4K.

TPU reviews also include games like Bioshock Infinite and Farcry 4, which are notoriously AMD optimized. So, I'd say the TPU reviews are the most balanced.
 

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Techpowerup's benchmarks always skew towards Nvidia since they include Batman/AC gamesworks garbage. In the Tomshardware review the Titan X and Fury X benched exactly the same. Titan X won by 1% in 1440p and the opposite happened in 4K.

Do you read the reviews? W1zzard routunely mentions "in the interest of fairness..." he turns off gameworks, etc stuff that would be preferential.
 
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Do you read the reviews? W1zzard routunely mentions "in the interest of fairness..." he turns off gameworks, etc stuff that would be preferential.

Devil's advocate here...

It's still probably fair to assume the game was better tested/optimized on NVIDIA hardware though if they include that at all.
 
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Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
There really isn't anything a website can do about it honestly. You play with a choice between AAA/relevant titles, making sure you have a decent cross section of genres, and what the people want to see (after all this is about hits). Do you add making sure to get a fair balance of TWIMTBP games and AMD sponsored ones? If you do that can you still get a good cross section of genres, AAA titles, and games people care about?
 
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I want to see benchs of games that I play. I will be mad at the devs for chosing to make them GameWorks or whatever
 
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Techpowerup's benchmarks always skew towards Nvidia since they include Batman/AC gamesworks garbage. In the Tomshardware review the Titan X and Fury X benched exactly the same. Titan X won by 1% in 1440p and the opposite happened in 4K.
Do you read the reviews? W1zzard routunely mentions "in the interest of fairness..." he turns off gameworks, etc stuff that would be preferential.
If people were to read most reviews instead of skipping everything. All sites do turn off gameworks, physx, tressfx, etc. So really your attempt to make excuses for AMD being slower is just that an excuse.

TPU reviews also include games like Bioshock Infinite and Farcry 4, which are notoriously AMD optimized. So, I'd say the TPU reviews are the most balanced.

BF4 and alien are also AMD games as well, BF4 has AMD's propeirtary locked up Mantle API that isn't even allowed to run on Nvidia cards. Hrm reminds me of people complaining of PhysX doesn't it?
 
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I want to see benchs of games that I play. I will be mad at the devs for chosing to make them GameWorks or whatever

That is hilarious. To actually be mad at devs because not all choose to work with AMD? To be sure, in a perfect world none would work with either camp. But that's reality, and you being "mad" isn't going to change that. There's real things in the world to be mad about.
 
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That is hilarious. To actually be mad at devs because not all choose to work with AMD? To be sure, in a perfect world none would work with either camp. But that's reality, and you being "mad" isn't going to change that. There's real things in the world to be mad about.

Notice the "or whatever." I don't give a rat's ass if it is GameWorks or whatever pile of shit program AMD has. It should be neither. We don't need more segregation in the PC gaming community. We already get shitty console ports half the time the last thing we need is to put down a pretty penny on a GPU and have it handicapped in games because it isn't red or green branded. So I will be "mad" at the devs, forgive me for using a figure of speech. Personally, I don't give a flying fuzz about whose brand is who. They (AMD and Nvidia) both think we (gamers) are stupid. Nvidia lies to our faces and expect us to just swallow it an ask for more and AMD puts out sub par products and expect us to be happy about it.
 

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BF4 and alien are also AMD games as well, BF4 has AMD's propeirtary locked up Mantle API that isn't even allowed to run on Nvidia cards. Hrm reminds me of people complaining of PhysX doesn't it?

Oh, and don't forget Tomb Raider with TressFX.

Notice the "or whatever." I don't give a rat's ass if it is GameWorks or whatever pile of shit program AMD has. It should be neither. We don't need more segregation in the PC gaming community. We already get shitty console ports half the time the last thing we need is to put down a pretty penny on a GPU and have it handicapped in games because it isn't red or green branded. So I will be "mad" at the devs, forgive me for using a figure of speech. Personally, I don't give a flying fuzz about whose brand is who. They (AMD and Nvidia) both think we (gamers) are stupid. Nvidia lies to our faces and expect us to just swallow it an ask for more and AMD puts out sub par products and expect us to be happy about it.

I have never once, not one time ever, started to play a game and felt like it was handicapped because I was using a card from the wrong GPU maker. If I can't turn on some eye candy that has no bearing on the actual gameplay, I really don't give a shit.

At the same time, games devs that do work with one team or the other still make their games completely playable on the other's cards. They'd be stupid not to. The other team's cards might get a few FPS lower, but it has never been to a point that I said "damn this game is crippled because my card is made by team XYZ". It just doesn't happen.

Finally, don't even try to say nVidia is the only one outright lying to our faces. AMD has lied a lot more, and said much worse lies, than nVidia. But for some reason they just seem to get a pass...
 
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On the GM200 it's nice to be enlightened. As to side-tacking, you bringing up the whole SIGGRAPH, it seemed like it was in there to send it back down some rabbit hole.
No, it was demonstrate that the M6000 won't be the only Maxwell pro graphics card - because as you well know, if I only supply a single example, the almost inevitable retort - not necessarily from you, but once burned, twice shy as they say- " But that's ONLY 1 CARD!!!!!! That only ONE away from ZERO!!!"
 
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BF4 and alien are also AMD games as well, BF4 has AMD's propeirtary locked up Mantle API that isn't even allowed to run on Nvidia cards. Hrm reminds me of people complaining of PhysX doesn't it?

Typical fanboy comment.



Creating physics effects with the use of PhysX, usually means that there is NOT going to be available a second physics engine that can offer the same quality of effects using the CPU or/and the GPU. That means that a person that does not use an Nvidia GPU sees something inferior on his screen.

Even if that person has a secondary Nvidia card, he can't use it because Nvidia forbids it. Patches that where removing the lock Nvidia implements in it's drivers, showed that using an Nvidia secondary card for physics was 100% working.


On the other hand Mantle does NOT affect the quality for someone running the game with DX11. What the person running the DX11 version sees on his screen, is the same as to what the person running Mantle sees on his screen. No one is treated as a second class customer.

And of course Nvidia would have never agreed in supporting an AMD's tech with AMD's logo on it. Instead it does support DX12 and I believe Vulkan. So in a way it does have an equivalent to Mantle. Nvidia on the other hand never promoted or supported the idea of a physics engine that will take advantage of what PhysX offers today and let someone else make it run on all gpus. Instead they create more proprietary techs thought GameWorks that can guarantee that whoever is not paying for Nvidia hardware will be treated as a second class customer with inferior quality and/or performance in the game.


Oh, and don't forget Tomb Raider with TressFX.
Runs perfectly on Nvidia GPUs.
 
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Runs perfectly on Nvidia GPUs.
Not really, I had to turn that "feature" off just to adequately play the game, jist as surely as I have to turn off Nvidia hairworks.
 
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It runs the same on Nvidia or AMD GPUs that's what I meant with "perfectly".
 

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But it doesnt run perfectly. Maybe thats what AMD PR says, but it simply isnt true.
 
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But it doesnt run perfectly. Maybe thats what AMD PR says, but it simply isnt true.
Stop being a fanboy, just for a moment. It will do you good. Believe me.
 

rtwjunkie

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Stop being a fanboy, just for a moment. It will do you good. Believe me.

Actually, not even close to a fanboy here. And were you a more regular contributor throughout the forums you would know that. You "claim" that Tress FX works great on Nvidia. My ACTUAL use says it doesn't. Does that bother me? Not in the least. NVIDIA hairworks doesn't work great either, so I don't use THAT. Doesn't bother me in the least.

I merely object when people like you spout a PR line about things being available for all equally, when they really aren't. However ALL those effects from both sides are gimmicks, and not necessary for good, fun gameplay, so not having them doesn' bother me. I just object to the statement you made about Tress-FX being just as usable on Nvidia cards.
 
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I have never once, not one time ever, started to play a game and felt like it was handicapped because I was using a card from the wrong GPU maker. If I can't turn on some eye candy that has no bearing on the actual gameplay, I really don't give a shit.

At the same time, games devs that do work with one team or the other still make their games completely playable on the other's cards. They'd be stupid not to. The other team's cards might get a few FPS lower, but it has never been to a point that I said "damn this game is crippled because my card is made by team XYZ". It just doesn't happen.

Finally, don't even try to say nVidia is the only one outright lying to our faces. AMD has lied a lot more, and said much worse lies, than nVidia. But for some reason they just seem to get a pass...

Holy crap, why does everyone have to get so uptight about GPU makers and take everything so literal. Just because I didn't list AMD PR lies in my post doesn't mean I don't think they do or have. Stop drinking the cool-aid.
 
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On the other hand Mantle does NOT affect the quality for someone running the game with DX11. What the person running the DX11 version sees on his screen, is the same as to what the person running Mantle sees on his screen. No one is treated as a second class customer.
You can't say that it DIDN'T since some of th game dev's had to dedicated to work on that instead of other things so you can't say for sure it didn't effect DX11 users.

Runs perfectly on Nvidia GPUs.
It runs the same on Nvidia or AMD GPUs that's what I meant with "perfectly".
I remember when that game was first released, tressFX ran like complete dog sh**. No thanks in part to nvidia not getting early copy of the game work on the issue(if this happened to AMD we all know where they would put the blame). TressFX used OpenCL which AMD is better in, well Hairworks uses DX11 tessellation which Nvidia is miles ahead in over AMD. Both used standards for it so stop whining about it, nvidia used standards which people complained about nvidia not using. Sad they get attacked for using a standard now.
 
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I remember when that game was first released, tressFX ran like complete dog sh**. No thanks in part to nvidia not getting early copy of the game work on the issue(if this happened to AMD we all know where they would put the blame).
Nvidia had a working driver 3 days after TressFX. The nature of TressFX was giving them the possibility to optimize in no time. On the other hand it is convenient whatever Nvidia creates to run crap on anything else. It took them years (I wonder why) to offer a PhysX CPU version that doesn't shoot itself in the foot. The first versions where not even using SSE.
 
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