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AMD Radeon HD 7000 Series

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If this is true then AMD are not using a new architecture.



Look at the numbers, they're switching to the same type of tech as nvidia for the "cores"

Compare AMD/Nvidia "core" count Amds is a lot higher right? As they use lots of simple "cores"

The whole point is they're supposed to be moving away from that and moving onto more complex "cores" that will be better at GPGPU even with a die shrink it shouldn't be a higher number than their current gen.

This is either fake or AMD are doing new architecture for 8000 series.


*excuse simple language, I've just woken up XD*
 
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I find these specs pretty believable. They make sense given the die shrink and AMDs preference for efficiency. Even the XDR bit seems practical given how hard rambus has been pushing it. Based on these specs I'd ballpark the 7970 as 35% faster than a 6970. That's a little higher than the average generation increase due to the size of the die shrink and efficiency of XDR, but I really expected a little more. Which they seem capable of delivering given the 60 watt advantage over the 6970. Maybe they'll dump a 7980 onto the market after assessing nvidia's 28nm performance. In the meantime, massive overclocking headroom perhaps?
 

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We have no concrete information on when Radeon HD 7900 series will launch, but most likely Q1 2012. AMD has chosen to use a more performance oriented node, TSMC's 28nm HP (High Performance) that will be ready later than HPL, but also have switched from GDDR5 to the pretty untested XDR2 technology.

From the nordic hardware source.

It's saying that 79xx will use XDR, not the 78xx and that the 79xx release isn't yet known at all as it will be using a more advanced architecture with the GCN. So makes it believable as the Fake arguement for using XDR memory is nullified by stating it will be used for the 79xx only and they'll not be out till next year.
 
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Will the 79xx series run optimally on PCI-E 2.0 or would they require 3.0 mobos?
In AMD slides, it stated that the HD 7000 series are going to be based on PCIE 3.0 specs and will incorporate full 3D.

LINK:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Islands_(GPU_family)#Technical_details

Have faith in AMD this time around boyz, it was the 32nm that screwed up both AMD and NVIDIA. Now both have an oportunity to gain lost ground and give us gamers the best there is to offer in 28nm.....
 
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thats why i think AMD should move manufacturing to Global Foundries n tell TSMC to screw off since they cant fab stuff correctly. Tell u truth in house making is better cuz of QA
 
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I find these specs pretty believable. They make sense given the die shrink and AMDs preference for efficiency. Even the XDR bit seems practical given how hard rambus has been pushing it. Based on these specs I'd ballpark the 7970 as 35% faster than a 6970. That's a little higher than the average generation increase due to the size of the die shrink and efficiency of XDR, but I really expected a little more. Which they seem capable of delivering given the 60 watt advantage over the 6970. Maybe they'll dump a 7980 onto the market after assessing nvidia's 28nm performance. In the meantime, massive overclocking headroom perhaps?

From the nordic hardware source.

It's saying that 79xx will use XDR, not the 78xx and that the 79xx release isn't yet known at all as it will be using a more advanced architecture with the GCN. So makes it believable as the Fake arguement for using XDR memory is nullified by stating it will be used for the 79xx only and they'll not be out till next year.

No one is making XDR2 memory currently. So how is a product going to be tested without the memory being rumored?

Not to mention that for XDR(2) to equal gddr5 memory it needs twice the clock of gddr5. So without 12Ghz XDR2 memory, it will be slower then gddr5.

Fwiw, gddr5 can run in differential mode so there is no need for something like XDR2.
 
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If it allows for more rops to be implemented in the cores design, I'm all for it, the max GDDR5 can sustain seems to be 8 Rops for every 64 bits, if these cards are 256bit and have 64 rops that means xdr2 can support more meaning nvidia or amd might be able to for once pump out video cards with over 100 rops.

and mimd cores, i'll wait till i see proof nvidia did that same claim with fermi and it was scrubbed before launch.
 
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AMD continuing to stick with 256-Bit, obviously because it's a lot cheaper than 512-Bit and beyond... I also don't see XDR2, but you never know, it may very well sit inside the HD 7900 cards only with the HD 7800's and below using GDDR5. :D
 

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who knows the Refresh of the boards unless if the top end models will have 512bit memory bus
 

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No one is making XDR2 memory currently. So how is a product going to be tested without the memory being rumored?

Not to mention that for XDR(2) to equal gddr5 memory it needs twice the clock of gddr5. So without 12Ghz XDR2 memory, it will be slower then gddr5.

Fwiw, gddr5 can run in differential mode so there is no need for something like XDR2.

it was the same conundrum with Intel and Rambus during the 370-478 Socket, its cause its innerworkings were 16bit not 32bit or faster. Thats where my 1.7 GHz Let the 1.8 GHz machine in dust cuz i was running DDR
 
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If this is true then AMD are not using a new architecture.



Look at the numbers, they're switching to the same type of tech as nvidia for the "cores"

Compare AMD/Nvidia "core" count Amds is a lot higher right? As they use lots of simple "cores"

The whole point is they're supposed to be moving away from that and moving onto more complex "cores" that will be better at GPGPU even with a die shrink it shouldn't be a higher number than their current gen.

This is either fake or AMD are doing new architecture for 8000 series.


*excuse simple language, I've just woken up XD*

I made a similar observation using information from another site. It looks like AMD has now entered into a pattern of creating new designs for the high end of the market and moving older designs downmarket with maybe a few tweaks, new features or higher clocks to differentiate them from the cards they are based on rather than creating variants based on the newest technology to fill the different market tiers. The specs I have seen for the 7870 look suspiciously like the 6970, the 7850 looks like the 6950, the 77xx cards look like the 6870/6850, and on down the line. The only cards that are substantially different from the HD6000 series cards are the high end dual GPU card and the single GPU card just below it and the Lombok cards at the bottom of the market. Everything else in the lineup looks like it's being recycled from the previous generation. The Lombok cards look to be a new design with more rendering units than the cards they are directly replacing but not as many as the units that currently occupy the next higher rung on the ladder, so those aren't just renamed carryovers that got shunted downmarket. I think it was necessary for them to replace the cards that occupied that part of the market with new technology so they could do hybrid Crossfire with their APU's and onboard chipsets.

AMD continuing to stick with 256-Bit, obviously because it's a lot cheaper than 512-Bit and beyond... I also don't see XDR2, but you never know, it may very well sit inside the HD 7900 cards only with the HD 7800's and below using GDDR5. :D


This.

I only expect to see the HD7900 cards with this new memory architecture because they are the only ones that will be able to saturate 256-bits of GDDR5. It would be an unnecessary expense to bring this tech lower down the market when cheaper solutions are still viable there.

According to the chart here,

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/8/t1677781-amd-hd-7000-specs-roadmap-revealed/

We finally see the long overdue death of the 64-bit memory bus on low end cards with Lombok being 128-bit and everything above being 256-bit. Lombok are the ONLY 128-bit cards in the HD7000 generation so could we even see the end of that soon, as well?



An interesting side note, compare the specs of Cayman XT (HD6970) with those of Thames XT (HD7870). The number of rendering units is the same but Thames XT has slightly more memory bandwith and higher clocks but look at the power consumption at the bottom. Less than HALF that of Cayman XT.

Don't bet on it pal. I waited for the 6900 series to drop precisely because I thought it would lower prices on the 5800 series and I could get a second 5850 for cheap. It didn't happen. Not only did it not happen, but it didn't happen due to 5800 rarity long before Bitcoin mining maintained the high prices and even pumped them up a little.

Trust me, don't count those chickens before they hatch...

And it's this that proves that simpler designs are better than more complex ones. Everyone who does Bitcoin mining seriously uses AMD cards because they have more horsepower for GPU computing than the competing nVidia designs. nVidias CUDA cores are a joke for Bitcoin mining compared to how AMD does it. AMD would be foolish to ignore this and try to make their cards more like nVidias'.

From the Bitcoin wiki

Why are AMD GPUs faster than Nvidia GPUs?

Firstly, AMD designs GPUs with many simple ALUs/shaders (VLIW design) that run at a relatively low frequency clock (typically 1120-3200 ALUs at 625-900 MHz), whereas Nvidia's microarchitecture consists of fewer more complex ALUs and tries to compensate with a higher shader clock (typically 448-1024 ALUs at 1150-1544 MHz). Because of this VLIW vs. non-VLIW difference, Nvidia uses up more square millimeters of die space per ALU, hence can pack fewer of them per chip, and they hit the frequency wall sooner than AMD which prevents them from increasing the clock high enough to match or surpass AMD's performance. This translates to a raw ALU performance advantage for AMD:

AMD Radeon HD 6990: 3072 ALUs x 830 MHz = 2550 billion 32-bit instruction per second
Nvidia GTX 590: 1024 ALUs x 1214 MHz = 1243 billion 32-bit instruction per second

This approximate 2x-3x performance difference exists across the entire range of AMD and Nvidia GPUs. It is very visible in all ALU-bound GPGPU workloads such as Bitcoin, password bruteforcers, etc.

Secondly, another difference favoring Bitcoin mining on AMD GPUs instead of Nvidia's is that the mining algorithm is based on SHA-256, which makes heavy use of the 32-bit integer right rotate operation. This operation can be implemented as a single hardware instruction on AMD GPUs (BIT_ALIGN_INT), but requires three separate hardware instructions to be emulated on Nvidia GPUs (2 shifts + 1 add). This alone gives AMD another 1.7x performance advantage (~1900 instructions instead of ~3250 to execute the SHA-256 compression function).

Combined together, these 2 factors make AMD GPUs overall 3x-5x faster when mining Bitcoins.

If this is true then AMD are not using a new architecture.



Look at the numbers, they're switching to the same type of tech as nvidia for the "cores"

Compare AMD/Nvidia "core" count Amds is a lot higher right? As they use lots of simple "cores"

The whole point is they're supposed to be moving away from that and moving onto more complex "cores" that will be better at GPGPU even with a die shrink it shouldn't be a higher number than their current gen.

This is either fake or AMD are doing new architecture for 8000 series.


*excuse simple language, I've just woken up XD*

More complex cores are *WORSE* at GPGPU operations. See my post above.
 
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I made a similar observation using information from another site. It looks like AMD has now entered into a pattern of creating new designs for the high end of the market and moving older designs downmarket with maybe a few tweaks, new features or higher clocks to differentiate them from the cards they are based on rather than creating variants based on the newest technology to fill the different market tiers. The specs I have seen for the 7870 look suspiciously like the 6970, the 7850 looks like the 6950, the 77xx cards look like the 6870/6850, and on down the line. The only cards that are substantially different from the HD6000 series cards are the high end dual GPU card and the single GPU card just below it and the Lombok cards at the bottom of the market. Everything else in the lineup looks like it's being recycled from the previous generation. The Lombok cards look to be a new design with more rendering units than the cards they are directly replacing but not as many as the units that currently occupy the next higher rung on the ladder, so those aren't just renamed carryovers that got shunted downmarket. I think it was necessary for them to replace the cards that occupied that part of the market with new technology so they could do hybrid Crossfire with their APU's and onboard chipsets.




This.

I only expect to see the HD7900 cards with this new memory architecture because they are the only ones that will be able to saturate 256-bits of GDDR5. It would be an unnecessary expense to bring this tech lower down the market when cheaper solutions are still viable there.

According to the chart here,

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/8/t1677781-amd-hd-7000-specs-roadmap-revealed/

We finally see the long overdue death of the 64-bit memory bus on low end cards with Lombok being 128-bit and everything above being 256-bit. Lombok are the ONLY 128-bit cards in the HD7000 generation so could we even see the end of that soon, as well?



An interesting side note, compare the specs of Cayman XT (HD6970) with those of Thames XT (HD7870). The number of rendering units is the same but Thames XT has slightly more memory bandwith and higher clocks but look at the power consumption at the bottom. Less than HALF that of Cayman XT.



And it's this that proves that simpler designs are better than more complex ones. Everyone who does Bitcoin mining seriously uses AMD cards because they have more horsepower for GPU computing than the competing nVidia designs. nVidias CUDA cores are a joke for Bitcoin mining compared to how AMD does it. AMD would be foolish to ignore this and try to make their cards more like nVidias'.

From the Bitcoin wiki

Why are AMD GPUs faster than Nvidia GPUs?

Firstly, AMD designs GPUs with many simple ALUs/shaders (VLIW design) that run at a relatively low frequency clock (typically 1120-3200 ALUs at 625-900 MHz), whereas Nvidia's microarchitecture consists of fewer more complex ALUs and tries to compensate with a higher shader clock (typically 448-1024 ALUs at 1150-1544 MHz). Because of this VLIW vs. non-VLIW difference, Nvidia uses up more square millimeters of die space per ALU, hence can pack fewer of them per chip, and they hit the frequency wall sooner than AMD which prevents them from increasing the clock high enough to match or surpass AMD's performance. This translates to a raw ALU performance advantage for AMD:

AMD Radeon HD 6990: 3072 ALUs x 830 MHz = 2550 billion 32-bit instruction per second
Nvidia GTX 590: 1024 ALUs x 1214 MHz = 1243 billion 32-bit instruction per second

This approximate 2x-3x performance difference exists across the entire range of AMD and Nvidia GPUs. It is very visible in all ALU-bound GPGPU workloads such as Bitcoin, password bruteforcers, etc.

Secondly, another difference favoring Bitcoin mining on AMD GPUs instead of Nvidia's is that the mining algorithm is based on SHA-256, which makes heavy use of the 32-bit integer right rotate operation. This operation can be implemented as a single hardware instruction on AMD GPUs (BIT_ALIGN_INT), but requires three separate hardware instructions to be emulated on Nvidia GPUs (2 shifts + 1 add). This alone gives AMD another 1.7x performance advantage (~1900 instructions instead of ~3250 to execute the SHA-256 compression function).

Combined together, these 2 factors make AMD GPUs overall 3x-5x faster when mining Bitcoins.



More complex cores are *WORSE* at GPGPU operations. See my post above.

There is a "multi-quote" button. Use it instead of quadruple posting. If you need help in understanding how the "multi-quote" button works, just ask.

Thank you.
 

WarraWarra

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AMD 7xxxm 28nm Southern Islands ?

Does anyone have more info on this ATI~AMD 7000 Mobile Gpu

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/24061-amd-demonstrates-28nm-notebook-gpu

Production in 2011
Not all of us made it to San Francisco for IDF or Anaheim for Microsoft Build, but we got some exciting news nonetheless.

AMD is showcasing its 28nm notebook graphics GPU, it doesn't want to tell the codename or the actual name, but we are quite sure that it will end up being a Radeon Mobility 7000 series part.

The notebook demonstrated just across the street from IDF can run Dirt 3 at quite nice settings and AMD tells us that it is starting production of this 28nm graphics part later this year. The company's representatives declined to comment if the part is going to ship in actual notebooks by the end of the year.

David Cummings, AMD's Director of Marketing, Desktop GPU and the rest of his team that we talked to didn't want to get into details about any product specifics, didn't gave us any comments about the desktop parts, but he did said that we should stay tuned.

ATI's 28nm graphics is codenamed Southern Islands but we don't know what the name of this particular “island” is. We can tell you that it will support switchable graphics for both AMD and Intel CPUs and we expect it to carry on supporting Eyefinity as well as H3D stereo 3D gaming.

AMD is confident that they have the advantage over Nvidia's 28nm offering as the fact that AMD has demonstrated a live demo and a game in an actual notebook design speaks for itself.

Looks like AMD is on the right track to be the first to 28nm, in both the desktop and mobile space. We should get you some pictures of this interesting mobile beast shortly.
 
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If there is any truth to the new HD 7000 series, this pupy is going to ROCK HARD and RUN COOL.....:toast:
 
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What's the difference between XDR and GDDR ?? What's so special about XDR? English please
 
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What's the difference between XDR and GDDR ?? What's so special about XDR? English please

Greek:
XDR είναι μια πολύ γρηγορότερα μνήμη με χαμηλή τάση και latencies. Εάν implimented σωστά, μπορεί εύκολα πλήγμα μακριά GDDR.

O.K. here it is in English:
XDR is a much faster memory with lower voltage and latencies. If implimented properly, it can easily blow away GDDR.

LINK:
http://www.rambus.com/in/technology/solutions/xdr2/index.html
The XDR™2 memory architecture is the world's fastest memory system solution capable of providing more than twice the peak bandwidth per device when compared to a GDDR5-based system. Further, the XDR 2 memory architecture delivers this performance at 30% lower power than GDDR5 at equivalent bandwidth.
 
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So why not implemented yet if it's that good? There are already more than 3 years since it was announced....
 

Red_or_Dead

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XDR is a much faster memory with lower voltage and latencies. If implemented properly, it can easily blow away GDDR.

i haven't looked into this, just speculating> they stated XDR is "x" times faster than GDDR, but what speeds can they get XDR to run? Does that speed equate to a greater bandwidth than what GDDR can give at the moment? pointless if XDR runs at 500MHz equal to GDDR running at 1300MHz!

efficiency wise - massive improvement, user bandwidth wise - zero improvement

like i said, haven't read into XDR so need a good fast and accurate reply to show how exactly XDR directly compares to GDDR
 
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i haven't looked into this, just speculating> they stated XDR is "x" times faster than GDDR, but what speeds can they get XDR to run? Does that speed equate to a greater bandwidth than what GDDR can give at the moment? pointless if XDR runs at 500MHz equal to GDDR running at 1300MHz!

efficiency wise - massive improvement, user bandwidth wise - zero improvement

like i said, haven't read into XDR so need a good fast and accurate reply to show how exactly XDR directly compares to GDDR

This should give you more info:

HD 7970: 256bit/1000MHz/32CUs/2048ALUs/128TMUs/64ROPs/XDR2 8.0Gbps 256GB/S /190W TDP/ 2GB Memory
HD 7950: 256bit/900MHz/30CUs/1920ALUs/120TMUs/64ROPs/XDR2 7.2Gbps 230GB/S /150W TDP/ 2GB Memory
HD 7870: 950MHz/24SIMDs/1536ALUs/96TMUs/32ROPs/256bit GDDR5 5.8Gbps 186GB/S /2GB/ TDP 120W
HD 7850: 850MHz/22SIMDs/1408ALUs/88TMUs/32ROPs/256bit GDDR5 5.2Gbps 166GB/S /2GB/ TDP 90W
HD 7670: 12SIMDs/768ALUs/48TMUs/16ROPs/900MHz/128bit/GDDR5 5.0Gbps 80GB/S /1GB/TDP 60W
HD 7570: 750MHz/12SIMDs/768ALUs/48TMUs/16ROPs/128bit GDDR5 4.0Gbps 64GB/s/1GB/50W TDP

More info here: http://www.guru3d.com/news/radeon-hd-7000-series-specs-leaked-/
 
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i haven't looked into this, just speculating> they stated XDR is "x" times faster than GDDR, but what speeds can they get XDR to run? Does that speed equate to a greater bandwidth than what GDDR can give at the moment? pointless if XDR runs at 500MHz equal to GDDR running at 1300MHz!

efficiency wise - massive improvement, user bandwidth wise - zero improvement

like i said, haven't read into XDR so need a good fast and accurate reply to show how exactly XDR directly compares to GDDR
GDDR5 vs. XDR2
http://www.rambus.com/in/technology/solutions/xdr2/xdr2_vs_gddr5.html

The XDR 2 memory solution provides incredible bandwidth performance and does so at far lower power than GDDR5 memory. In fact, XDR 2 consumes 30% less power than GDDR5 at equal bandwidth performance. Given equal power budget, XDR 2 memory provides 50% more bandwidth than GDDR5. And at full speed, XDR 2 DRAM deliver twice the bandwidth of GDDR5 devices.
 
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All XDR latency is about 2x higher then Gddr5.
 
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