1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

An AMD Gaming Evolved game that uses nVidia PhysX! WTF?!

Discussion in 'Games' started by Eric_Cartman, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. Eric_Cartman

    Eric_Cartman

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    Messages:
    587 (0.21/day)
    Thanks Received:
    45
    How is this even possible that this exists?

    Why would a game developer under AMD use nVidia's physics engine over AMD's own?

    Why not TressFX?

    Why not at least Havok?

    And if nVidia keeps their technology so closed why is it even possible for an AMD developer to use it?

    Or is nVidia not really as uptight about Physx as people here say?
     
  2. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Messages:
    39,831 (13.16/day)
    Thanks Received:
    14,202
    What game?
     
    AlienIsGOD says thanks.
  3. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,162 (3.99/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,805
    Location:
    04578
    Uh you do realize PhysX has an entirely CPU dependent version thats completely agnostic and functions identically to Havok correct?
     
    TheLaughingMan says thanks.
  4. W1zzard

    W1zzard Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    14,979 (3.92/day)
    Thanks Received:
    11,817
    I would do it if it meant $$ from both companies
     
  5. KainXS

    KainXS

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,601 (2.16/day)
    Thanks Received:
    502
    yea what game is it, obviously it will run on the cpu but what game do you mean will use the gpu.
     
  6. Agility

    Agility

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,645 (0.48/day)
    Thanks Received:
    51
    Location:
    Singapore
    No offense but this thread sounds like you're talking to a mirror. NAME THE GAME! :slap:
     
  7. Eric_Cartman

    Eric_Cartman

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    Messages:
    587 (0.21/day)
    Thanks Received:
    45
    Bioshock Infinite.

    Sorry.

    True, but with as strict as everyone here claims nVidia is with Physx it is surprising they would allow their technology to be used in an AMD game.

    But more surprising to me that AMD would put their Gaming Evolved stamp on a game that is based on nVidia technology and not on their own TressFX.

    It really makes AMD look foolish that their developers aren't even interested in using their technology.
     
  8. Crap Daddy

    Crap Daddy

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,748 (1.88/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,049
    No NVidia physX in that game.
     
  9. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,162 (3.99/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,805
    Location:
    04578
    Bioshock runs on Unreal Engine 3

    primary Physics engine for Unreal Engine is PhysX

    developers can choose to use GPU-PhysX if they want or just Nvidia CPU PhysX.

    It doesnt matter who sponsered the game.

    PhysX is a phyiscs middleware in the same vein as, Havok and Bullet Physics.

    Bioshock Infinite being run on Unreal Engine 3 = CPU-PhysX at worst

    Getting bent out of shape over it does nothing.

    PhysX in its CPU form is nothing more than middleware and its built into Unreal Engine

    The reason that logo is there is because of the Unreal logo

    Unreal engine is paid for by developers, EPIC paid for PhysX and implemented it into their game engine, thus both logos appear.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  10. Eric_Cartman

    Eric_Cartman

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    Messages:
    587 (0.21/day)
    Thanks Received:
    45
    [​IMG]

    I'm not getting bent out of shape about anything.

    I'm just saying it doesn't make sense, especially for AMD.

    Everyone says nVidia is so closed with PhysX, but yet they allowed it to be used in an AMD game.

    Though looking at it again, it kind of makes sense, because now nVidia can brag that AMD had to use their physics engine instead of TressFX.

    It really doesn't make sense for AMD though, it really makes them look foolish.
     
  11. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,162 (3.99/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,805
    Location:
    04578
    Tress FX is not a god damn physics engine. /sigh

    literally the ONLY thing Tress FX does is HAIR = thats it. Could they expand on it? yes will they knowing AMD yes will it end up working well ? probably not

    its not NVIDIA doing anything

    again EPIC paid Nvidia to license PhysX for their game engine. same as they did Bink Video by Rad Game Tools etc etc

    Irrational games then licensed Unreal Engine 3 from Epic for their game.

    By licensing the game engine they automatically got licenses to Bink Video / PhysX etc etc etc. Its why licensing game engines is expensive as not only are you paying for support you are paying for the license and accompanying technology. This is why Unreal Engine is so popular its pretty much a 1 stop shop to get what you need to make a game.

    Irrational games could add their own physics engine if they wanted to but the PhysX logo would still most likely be shown due to licensing agreements between Nvidia and EPIC games.

    So how is AMD foolish? Irrational games paid for a game engine license with that license came Nvidia PhysX end of story.

    Unreal Engine 3 games = physx and Havok

    Developers can pick either one as both are MIDDLEWARE, but UE3 comes with PhysX by default. '

    Even my old developers kit auto installs PhysX.

    Regardless it does not matter,

    Physx on the CPU and Havok on CPU both accomplish the exact same thing. There is nothing foolish about it Nvidia has a potent physics library that is supported by a vast majority of tools

    example Autodesk maya has a direct plugin for PhysX, so if working with game assets in Maya you can test physics effects in real time without having export content to the game engine and run it.

    right now theres basically 3 ways Developers can go when it comes to Physics.

    Nvidia = PhysX
    Intel = Havok
    Other = code your own.

    Option 3 costs far more money than option 1 or 2 and if starting from scratch. Option 3 is still more expensive than 1 and 2 COMBINED.

    A fourth option does exist = Bullet Physics but then that engine seems just about dead. Only Futuremark and the Starwars Force Unleashed games used it. I think Rockstar did as well. Even then it still hasnt been properly GPU accellerated last time i checked. The creator of the software now works for AMD and has for the last 3 years still nothing to show for it really.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
    Crap Daddy says thanks.
  12. W1zzard

    W1zzard Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    14,979 (3.92/day)
    Thanks Received:
    11,817
    You may use PhysX in any game there is no limitation like that. It would probably be grounds for epic lawsuit anyway.
     
  13. Eric_Cartman

    Eric_Cartman

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    Messages:
    587 (0.21/day)
    Thanks Received:
    45
    Hair is the only thing it has been used for.

    However, according to AMD it is an physics engine for rendering soft body objects.

    It can be used for hair, grass, cloth, etc.

    And from what I've seen in Bioshock so far cloth is the only physics element in the game.

    Nothing else in the environment even moves...

    So TressFX certainly could have been used.

    So how is AMD foolish?

    They are foolish by slapping their name on a game running on a nVidia engine instead of their own.
     
  14. KainXS

    KainXS

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,601 (2.16/day)
    Thanks Received:
    502
    no its an unreal engine and unreal adopts physx in UDK and even in bioshock infinite I believe it only runs on the cpu only as I have seen no difference between amd and nvidia cards in BI.

    and many say nvidia is closed off with physx because if it does not have an nvidia name on it they cripple it, even after the rewrite on the physx sdk 3 its still crippled on modern cpu's.
     
  15. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,162 (3.99/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,805
    Location:
    04578
    Again theres only 2 options for Physics

    why use Tress FX when it covers only 1 thing? that does not constitute a Physics Library for use in a game

    Bullet Physics would have been the AMD alternative to use, considering again they HIRED the guy that originally created it works for AMD, and has for the last 3 years. Tress FX from what I can tell is work of trying to make Bullet Physics GPU Accelerated. So what they have shown = all they have managed to accomplish in three years.

    that leaves again just Havok or PhysX as viable alternatives.

    Regardless of which way you look at it niether AMD nor Nvidia really give great performance in Bioshock Infinite, frame rates may go as high as 150-200 but due to runts and drops on BOTH brands the way the game feels its runn much much lower. Drivers have begun correcting that but I digress thats something for another time.

    PhysX is essentially a seperate entity now from NVIDIA, they own it yes they license it yes. But it has no bearing on GeForce products. because regardless of GPU acceleration or not it is one of only two viable middleware physics engines widely used.

    and how is it an Nvidia engine? when its CPU only. Nvidia doesnt prioritize development for Nvidia CPUs cause Nvidia cpus dont exist in the x86 space. Their PhysX library is agnostic in that it sucks on all CPUs, but regardless of that fact, it works on every platform

    360 / PS3 / 720 / PS4 / Wii U / PC / iOS / Android etc etc etc.

    You are too hung up on it being Nvidia PhysX. When only running on the CPU drop the Nvidia from that its seperate its middleware, it is no different in this regard than Sapphire TriXX for overclocking. Its a middleware software package that serves a purpose.

    Other Examples of Middleware for games include but are not limited to.

    Speed Tree
    Havok
    PhysX
    Bink Video
    Game Spy
    Emotion FX
    RAD Game Tools Miles Sound
    Simul Weather
    Umbra Software
    Geomerics
    etc etc

    these are all Middleware

    Slap Nvidia in front of those and people would bitch about it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  16. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Messages:
    39,831 (13.16/day)
    Thanks Received:
    14,202
    This is CPU PhysX. It works on both AMD and Intel processors. Has nothing to do with the GPU which "AMD Gaming Evolved" is attributed to. I see no cause for concern or surprise for something that is so commonplace.
     
    GreiverBlade says thanks.
  17. Mindweaver

    Mindweaver Moderato®™ Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,270 (2.60/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,748
    Location:
    Statesville, NC
    Err Bioshock was created on a Modified unreal engine in 2007.. PhysX was bought from Ageia in 2008 by Nvidia. PhysX was not created by Nvidia.. 2K games made Bioshock not AMD.. So, it's not really up to AMD.. Blame Epic games for changing there physics engine, because they used the Havok Physics in there first game. :toast: The cake is a lie!
     
    GreiverBlade says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  18. hukondejo New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1 (0.00/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1
    (source: https://developer.nvidia.com/physx-games)
    "Bioshock Infinite
    APEX Clothing - PhysX 3.1
    BioShock Infinite is a first-person shooter video game developed by Irrational Games, and published by 2K Games. The game is using APEX Clothing for Elizabeth which helps to provide a more realistic character interaction."

    The game doesn't contains the full physx only a part of it. APEX is just a part of physx technology thats why they need to indicate NVidia's logo.
     
    GreiverBlade says thanks.
  19. puma99dk|

    puma99dk|

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    3,450 (1.03/day)
    Thanks Received:
    776
    if i remember correctly running PhysX of the CPU takes a lot of power, and i think the first cpu that could actually handle it was the AMD Phenom II X6 or am i wrong?
     
  20. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    42,401 (11.53/day)
    Thanks Received:
    9,700
    wrong. its poorly coded and single threaded, but it could always run on the CPU if nvidia had wanted it to.
     
  21. GreiverBlade

    GreiverBlade

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,264 (2.50/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,578
    Location:
    Ovronnaz, Wallis, Switzerland
    after reading all that ... i wanted to say ... So What?:rolleyes:...

    i play Bioshock Infinite, i played on my GTX480/460 hawk(with a PhII X2 511 for the 460) and my R7950 (ofc the 7950 gave better result even with the PhysX calculated by the X4 955) Bioshock is not what we can call a "heavy" game ... it runs all fine on a 8800/9800GT (1gb at last and relatively playable on high/very high)

    Gaming Evolved means : NONONO its not for Nvidia they have TWIMTBP no Nvidia on that HERETIC!??!?! luckly some Dev are inteligent enough to split the apple and use both tech

    TL:DR oh well i see some people with good senses (no name involved) also since its only Apex its the same as Tomb Raider 2013 and TressFX only 1 thing is concerned in both case, lara's hair for one and Elizabeth clothings in the other.

    i also launched a Ultimate setting TR2k13 on my GTX480 hufff 55fps average what a loss for enabling a AMD tech on a Nvidia GPU ;)
     
  22. BigMack70

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    506 (0.53/day)
    Thanks Received:
    114
    It's 2013 and people still don't understand the difference between CPU PhysX (which is meaningless middleware not dependent on Nvidia hardware at all) and GPU-accelerated PhysX (which DOES depend on Nvidia hardware but is in only a tiny handful of games)?

    :slap:
     

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)

Share This Page