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ATI HD5XXX Series Discussion

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what do the ROP's do anyways

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_Output_unit

basically if you imagine a 3D scene has everything there - the whole environment is available to render - the ROPs help decide which pixel is the one which should be displayed for each pixel location - it decides which pixel is nearest the "camera" (and if it is a translucent pixel - like glass - it then finds what's behind the glass to make the actual colour/effect required).
 
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so from what i've read online, ROP's will help with higher resolutions and AA performance. HD 4870 does fine with AA imo esp only having 16 compared to nvidia's high end cards using 32. With 32 ROP's compared to 16, the performance hit a 5870 recieves when using AA esp at high resolutions should be much less compared to performance hits HD 48XX series recieve.
 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_Output_unit

basically if you imagine a 3D scene has everything there - the whole environment is available to render - the ROPs help decide which pixel is the one which should be displayed for each pixel location - it decides which pixel is nearest the "camera" (and if it is a translucent pixel - like glass - it then finds what's behind the glass to make the actual colour/effect required).

Also known as pipelines.
 
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compute shaders aren't that hardware related, they run ontop of normal shaders but the shaders they run with need to support certain features
 
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Another fun little fact is that 32 rops on a 256bit bus has never been done before, it will be really nice to see if GDDR5 is a limitation there

Insert 4770 reference here. Notice how it has the same ROPs as the high end 48xx cards but half the bus?

so from what i've read online, ROP's will help with higher resolutions and AA performance. HD 4870 does fine with AA imo esp only having 16 compared to nvidia's high end cards using 32. With 32 ROP's compared to 16, the performance hit a 5870 recieves when using AA esp at high resolutions should be much less compared to performance hits HD 48XX series recieve.

nVidia may use 32 ROPs, but it still has the same ratio as the 4 series: 4 ROPs/64 bit bus. There is where ATI is breaking away and I expect nVidia to follow whenever they come out with their DX11 part.
 
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do ROP's have any like connection to the bit bus? performance wise. or is it just a fun fact that nvidia has used 4rops/64bit bus? Honestly i never really looked at ATI as much of changer or innovater, but they do seem to do everything first, smaller processes, GDDR5, different ROP/bit bus ratio. Course nvidia always seems to have the top performing graphic card. I have a lot of respect for ATI though....i think im starting to get the ATI fanboy bug :p.
 
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it depends on what kind of memory you have and if the card is unified or not.

unified GDDR3 has a maximum of 2 rops per rop partition, for example, the 8800/9800/HD3800 series card all have 8 rop partitions, the GTX2XX has 16 rop partitions though

GDDR5 can do double though
 

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do ROP's have any like connection to the bit bus? performance wise. or is it just a fun fact that nvidia has used 4rops/64bit bus? Honestly i never really looked at ATI as much of changer or innovater, but they do seem to do everything first, smaller processes, GDDR5, different ROP/bit bus ratio. Course nvidia always seems to have the top performing graphic card. I have a lot of respect for ATI though....i think im starting to get the ATI fanboy bug :p.

You and I should just trade rigs. I have the Intel/Nvidia bug.
 
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Benchmark Scores It does boot up? I think.
it depends on what kind of memory you have and if the card is unified or not.
Err? What?

unified GDDR3 has a maximum of 2 rops per rop partition, for example, the 8800/9800/HD3800 series card all have 8 rop partitions, the GTX2XX has 16 rop partitions though

GDDR5 can do double though
G80 has, six ROP quads (quad = 4ROPs) each coupled with two 32bit channels of GDDR (6× 4ROP+64bit -> 24ROP + 384bit).
G92, RV670 and RV770 all have four quads (4× 4ROP+64bit -> 16ROP + 256bit).
G200 has eight quads (8× 4ROP+64bit -> 32ROP + 512bit).

So, I dunno what you mean by "unified GDDR3" and where you got "2ROP partitions", or "8× 2ROP partitions for 8800/9800/HD3800" or "16× for GT200"?
 
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I just had to pop in as sadly, GPU architecture is one of my fave subjects (sad I know). Too many people still look at basics specs of cards, especially when making comparisions between ATi and NVidia architecture and technology and quite frankly make performance assumptions that are wrong. At it's most basic, a real punter with no knowledge will automatically assume that one card must be faster than another if it's GPU speed is higher, then you get the slightly more knowledgable individualls who think that either the card with the most ROP's, SP's or TMU's is the faster, well of course they are all related but it's a combination of several things that actually define the overall performance of a card, the best way to example that is, that current and last gen ATi cards at the mid/high end have had 800 ROP's (at a fixed speed) where has NVidia has had considerably less (let's say 216) but with variable ROP speeds dependant on GPU speed, and quite often the architecture with less ROP's can be faster. The main factors in a GPU's overall performance (I will exclude memory speeds/bandwidth) are:

Core speed
ROP count
Stream processors count
Stream processors speed
TMU's (quantity)

There are other factors (like unified shader units but they are linked to the SP's so have not seperated them) but I think these are the main ones. Of course the memory and bandwidth do also play a large part because most of the processes that move between the various functional elements of the GPU architecture pass through the memory before they move to the next process..... This shortish article is quite useful as it's shows the evolution of the architecture with a couple of simle diagrams showing how the various processes (rastorisation, vortex etc) interact................

http://boole.computer.org/portal/si...age/Feb07&file=howthings.xml&xsl=article.xsl&


I suppose what I am really saying is..... specs on paper dont always tell the complete story and whilst they are an indicator of performance, thats all they are, an indicator!
 
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I would say the main factors in a GPU's overall performance are not the frequencies or amounts of units, but their effective throughput:
- shader processing power = effective amount of shaders × freq
- texture fillrate = effective amount of TFUs/TAUs × freq
- memory bandwidth = bus width × effective freq
- pixel fillrate = effective amount of ROPs × freq

Not necessarily in this order. Though, it does seem modern games/applications are made to use features that emphase this order of importance. For example: Crysis is obviously very shader intensive. Secondly, games use larger and larger textures while high level filterings are a standard. But in the end, it is the balance of these factors which is what way more important than any of these individually.
 
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Benchmark Scores It does boot up? I think.
In reality- 800SPs isn't really true... that was a marketing ploy to say "Hey! We got more SPs!!"
If you were to compare ATI to Nvidia on the Nvidia side of the field... ATI would have
HD4870/50/90 = 80SPs
GTX260/80= 216/240



Thats how it was explained to me by an engineer at TSMC.
Obviously, that TSMC engineer has no clue what he's talking about. Did he also tell you about the 32ROPs on HD5k series? Cause it makes no sense, either.
 
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Err? What?

G80 has, six ROP quads (quad = 4ROPs) each coupled with two 32bit channels of GDDR (6× 4ROP+64bit -> 24ROP + 384bit).
G92, RV670 and RV770 all have four quads (4× 4ROP+64bit -> 16ROP + 256bit).
G200 has eight quads (8× 4ROP+64bit -> 32ROP + 512bit).

So, I dunno what you mean by "unified GDDR3" and where you got "2ROP partitions", or "8× 2ROP partitions for 8800/9800/HD3800" or "16× for GT200"?

Yeah I just thought about it and remembered it was 64x4, :confused:

I remember talking about all this when the HD4770 came out too, was I drunk the other day . . . . .
 
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Yeah I just thought about it and remembered it was 64x4, :confused:

I remember talking about all this when the HD4770 came out too, was I drunk the other day . . . . .

:laugh: Why do you not remember it? :laugh:

I've come to suspect that a 4870 equivalent 5 series will about double the 4770 SP. I coming to believe those spces that BSN leaked back in may are actually true or very close.
 
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The latest rumors from Hardware-infos.de is the RV870 is 300 mm² in size. It's also rumored that the memory bus will be 384-bit.
 
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The latest rumors from Hardware-infos.de is the RV870 is 300 mm² in size. It's also rumored that the memory bus will be 384-bit.

any estimate on the amount of shaders from this?
 

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I wonder if my 720 will be a bottleneck to the new 5XXX series. Man that would super suck nuts.

Look at Kurgans system, 4870X2 on a 720, running it fine n dandy.

Btw Apps that are Shader Intensive tend to win on AMD those that are Memory Intensive are on Nvidia.

And you can't compare archs as its Comparing Apples to Oranges.


(Next machine Black 965, 4890 (not sure what maker) MSI GD70 or Gbyte UD5P/UDP5 Hitachi/Samsung HDs/ Samsung Optical, Auzentech/BGears/HTOmega Sound, Case that has at least 8.5" Width, Enermax/Antec/PC Power PSU, GEIL Gaming Series DDR3)
 

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I would say the main factors in a GPU's overall performance are not the frequencies or amounts of units, but their effective throughput:
- shader processing power = effective amount of shaders × freq
- texture fillrate = effective amount of TFUs/TAUs × freq
- memory bandwidth = bus width × effective freq
- pixel fillrate = effective amount of ROPs × freq

This is exactly how I have always thought of it, its "effective thoughput" - Well said largon.

Pixel fillrate used to be hugely important as it wasn't until nvidia's 7XXX series and ATi's X1XXX series until shader units become "de-coupled" as such from the ROPS,. Remember Nvidia and ATi both upping the stakes and going to 16 ROPS/shaders for their 6800 and X800 lines respectively, having both come from 8 ROP resigns (or was the FX series 4x2 or something crazy?)

And certain scenario's may favor a certain card even if it is outclassed in terms of throughput on paper.

All of these wonderful facts and ways of looking at GPU's is what makes them so fascinating, every GPU is an elegant creation, with subtle nuances left right and center.
 
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Memory 2× 8GB DDR4-3200 ◦◦◦ 2× 8GB Crucial Ballistix Tactical LP DDR3-1600
Video Card(s) RTX 3070 ◦◦◦ heaps of dead GPUs in the garage
Storage Samsung 980 PRO 2TB ◦◦◦ Samsung 840Pro 256@178GB + 4× WD Red 2TB in RAID10 + LaCie Blade Runner 4TB
Display(s) HP ZR30w 30" 2560×1600 (WQXGA) H2-IPS
Case Lian Li PC-A16B
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair AX860i
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S / Contour RollerMouse Red+
Keyboard Logitech Elite Keyboard from 2006 / Contour Balance Keyboard / Logitech diNovo Edge
Software W11 x64 ◦◦◦ W10 x64
Benchmark Scores It does boot up? I think.
384 is a 50% increase, so maybe they will have 1200?
Considering the rumoured die size that's way too low an amount. I'd expect atleast 1600SPs, or possibly upto 2000SPs. 1200 just wouldn't make sense for a 40nm >300mm² chip - just because RV770 on 40nm would be ~140mm², thus, hypothetically the whole of RV770 shrinked to 40nm with everything doubled (32ROPs+80TMUs+1600SPs) would be ~280mm². But of course, not every transistor needs to be duplicated so there's lots of area they can use for "something else".
 
D

Deleted member 67555

Guest
It sure would be Nice if these hit the Market when the NEW I5's come out
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
5,123 (0.95/day)
Location
North of Germany
System Name Nexus PC
Processor Intel Xeon E3-1231 v3, 3600 MHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-H97-HD3
Cooling Thermalright Macho V2
Memory 24GB DDR3, 1400MHZ CL8
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon R9 290
Storage Samsung EVO 960 250gb, EVO 850 250gb, Vertex 3 128gb. 2 TB of Rotational.
Display(s) 1xAsus MX299, 2x Asus MX239, Oculus Rift CV1
Case Sunflower Tower
Audio Device(s) C-Media CMI8738/C3DX
Power Supply Corsair TX850
Mouse Cyborg R.A.T. 7
Software Win7 64Bit Ultimate
i cant wait for these killer to show up...;)
 
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