Best sounding 2.1 setup for Music?

[cadaveca]

The speaker wires need to be the same length? What about rear speakers? Natrually they would have longer wires than the fronts... my 5.1 pc speaker set is like this... the rear speakers have hugely long wires, but the fronts have relatively short wires...

You want to keep left/right pairs with equal lengths of wire. Wire has a bit of capacitance, that increases over length, so to ensure the same signal reaches both sides of each pair, you need to keep the circuits the same....like how they need to keep mem traces the same length...likewise, over great distances, it's possible that stereo field can be broken if the signal takes marginally longer to travel down the wire...but that's really hard to guage...

Rear/front are not matched pairs. the reproduce differnet audio, so it's not nessecary to keep rears with the same length as fronts, although I have experimented with that as well.

 

[shevanel]

1 speaker done... won't be long.

 

[shevanel]

I don't know how and I don't know why but it DOES sound clearer!

It sounds better. The sound is more distinguished and more clarity coming from the top part of the speakers and all the space in between the speakers seem much more full. Almost as if I am wearing headphones and I can hear the smallest little detail. I can even hear fingers sliding on the guitar strings much more clearly.

Claptons voice fills the room and it's not behind the music it sounds in front of it. I can hear the snare much clearer than before. All the guitars sound clearer.

The balance is much better, it really is..

Even if this is placebo I am keeping it like this, to me it really really does sound cleaner and clearer. Even backing vocals sound a distance apart from where I am hearing the main vocals.

I don't know guys.. It sounds good. It actually sounds really good.


edit: yeah the clarity has def. increased I just listened to a song that usually sounded watered on these speakers and it just sounded great. The FRIGGIN snare drum on the blast beats is right in my face!!!

making my eyes water from the emotion of the music it sounds so great


Damn the only thing I can think of is the 5.25+1" is not running in parallel to the 2 8"s and just doing their own thing compared to before... you might think Im crazy but the biggest difference is in the snare + vocals mainly.. the bass + kick drum seem more defined.

 

[cadaveca]

Huh. Interesting. I say it's all in your head.

Not serious, BTW, I just find it really odd. But if you like it, then good!

EDIT: Make sure that speakers are connected properly in polarity, to me, sounds like maybe you had an out of phase connection.


and in the end, you've got far better sound than any pc speaker could have provided. As long as you enjoy it, that's all that matters!

 

[shevanel]

I do notice that bass is less now.. it doesnt seem as bassy.. there is bass, but now it sounds like the highs over throw the bass dept. and I need to add a subwoofer.. before I changed it everything had a nice lowend sound which I do like it kinda bassy, not hip hop bassy but enough bass to feel the kick.. now it just seems more balanced.. and the vocals stand out more and Im throwing a variety of music at it.

Polarity is perfect. I made sure to check all ends prior to connecting.

Maybe what I am experiencing is the speaker wire length.. the left speakers lead was 10 inches longer before I re-did it.

In floods I now hear this annoying string rattle that wasnt there before.. he hits a note and the sting vibrates off the fret... its low and int eh background but now i can hear it.. MEH.. it's only between :10 and 40 seconds into the song

Also I set my max volume at 65 because 70 seemed too dirty and sounded like distortion .. now Im at 70 and the distortion isnt there it still sounds clear but friggin loud as hell

 

[cadaveca]

Yeah, more likely to be wire length. But hey, maybe bi-wire works well with those speakers, or something.

Mabye try the other way with the shorter wire too...I'm quite curious now.

 

[shevanel]

Let me ask this.

If I had 3 speakers in a box playing from one signal would all three speakers vibrate and move in/out at the same pace?

 

[cadaveca]

Depends....need more info..box design, speakers, etc..

 

[shevanel]

well i was just curious because I was feeling the speakers as they were playing and the 5.25's do not do what the 8"'s do as far as movment

 

[cadaveca]

They are different speakers...8's are bass, 5.25 mids, they produce different frequecies, so naturally move differently to acheive this.

 

[shevanel]

but they moved the same before

 

[cadaveca]

That doesn't make any sense. Interesting, nonetheless.

 

[shevanel]

None of this makes any sense. I'm boggled by it looking at it from a techinal point of view and trying to understand what is going on.

Im going to listen to it like this for a few days, then Im going to put the brackets back on and run it as if it were the way it was and Im going to listen to see if Im missing anything or if all the music is as it was without anything not appearing to be there any longer.

What is taken away in life is sometimes more memorable than what is given, sometimes.

 

[cadaveca]

Well, it's odd, only becuase 8's get only stuff lower than 600hz, due to crossover, and mids get 3200hz down to 600. So literally, they should NOT have "moved" in the same fashion.

It's more than possible bi-wire makes a difference, but only due to capacitance offered by the wire. Since this capacitance is very small, you'd think there would be little effect, but as always, there may be more to this than meets the eye.

 

[Dent1]

Maybe the improvement lays in the fact that the metal brackets were not good conductors. The two wires might be of a better quality than the brackets and hence have better resistance resulting in improved quality.

 

[cadaveca]

Hmm, very interesting thought, Dent1. this can be checked simply by using wire between the posts rather than the plates.

 

[Wile E]

I could care less if it did...I know it's right.


I avoid A/V forums like the plague...far too many people think they know thier stuff becase they bought some gear.

As a musician, I have a higher-order understanding of music itself, so my only concern when it comes to audio, is accurate reproduction.

So, I play guitar/bass, keyboards, drums, and trumpet. I can record my own songs, and when I play them back, I expect things to sound EXACTLY as they were when played live.

And with that in mind, while I know a bit about surround stuff, my main focus is on stereo reproduction. I don't record in surround, so it's only use for me is for movies.

All my comments are based on my own personal search for accurate reproduction of my own music.

And music for me, is a tool. I strive to cause emotional reactions with my music, and that cannot happen without decent playback...but at the same time, I have to consider all set-ups, to keep my audience. As such, I really do need to know a bit about this stuff, but at the same time, there's going to be TONNES of stuff I just don't know about...


In the end, this stuff here is pretty basic. There's no "magic" involved...it's a very simple audio circuit. "Bi-wiring" doesn't change the circuit...not drastically, not sonically, however, the extra wire can be another place where interference can enter the circuit, and as such, I consider it a waste.

It is a waste. All it does is lower the resistance of the cable run. Higher (numerically lower) gauge wire provides the same results as bi-wiring.

For the wattage he is putting out, he won't see any benefits from anything larger than 16 gauge on a short run like that, or maybe 14 gauge on a long run.

I have the same music background as you, btw. lol. (Well, minus boards and trumpet)

I am not writing this to dispute you Cad, I agree with what you've said and it makes the most sense but one thing I did read that made sense and probably the only thing that made sense when it comes to bi-wiring is..





That was from B&W's site, and another site basically set the same thing that the LF & HF sets do not have to confusingly share the same single, frequencies do not get mixed up and therefore may cause enhanced imaging and clarity in some speaker sets or configurations because the LF and HF speakers are receiving their own dedicated input and it separates the confusion between LF and HF wired speakers because each driver will produce the sound form the signal as it was intended to do instead of low and highs using the same signal. or something..

Since I have enough wire to try it I am going to.. what do I have to lose and I am the kinda guy that believes you'll never know what happens if you don't try..

They are confusing Bi-wiring and Bi-amping. What they describe there is Bi-amping.

The speaker wires need to be the same length? What about rear speakers? Natrually they would have longer wires than the fronts... my 5.1 pc speaker set is like this... the rear speakers have hugely long wires, but the fronts have relatively short wires...

Front and rear aren't paired together, and surround setups have delay settings for the rear channels.

I don't know how and I don't know why but it DOES sound clearer!

It sounds better. The sound is more distinguished and more clarity coming from the top part of the speakers and all the space in between the speakers seem much more full. Almost as if I am wearing headphones and I can hear the smallest little detail. I can even hear fingers sliding on the guitar strings much more clearly.

Claptons voice fills the room and it's not behind the music it sounds in front of it. I can hear the snare much clearer than before. All the guitars sound clearer.

The balance is much better, it really is..

Even if this is placebo I am keeping it like this, to me it really really does sound cleaner and clearer. Even backing vocals sound a distance apart from where I am hearing the main vocals.

I don't know guys.. It sounds good. It actually sounds really good.


edit: yeah the clarity has def. increased I just listened to a song that usually sounded watered on these speakers and it just sounded great. The FRIGGIN snare drum on the blast beats is right in my face!!!

making my eyes water from the emotion of the music it sounds so great


Damn the only thing I can think of is the 5.25+1" is not running in parallel to the 2 8"s and just doing their own thing compared to before... you might think Im crazy but the biggest difference is in the snare + vocals mainly.. the bass + kick drum seem more defined.

You needed heavier speaker cable. Any change in sound will be from a change in resistance.

 

[shevanel]

Ok cool, makes sense to me..

I'm only using the cheapo 12ga walmart stuff.

I am going to order some wire from newegg with the banana clip thingies..

I'll post a few links soon, maybe someone can suggest the best bang for buck product.

For starters maybe just a 2 sets of these Cables Unlimited - Pro A/V Series 16GA Speaker Wir...

Im going to run the bi-wire style setup whether it's beneficial or not. It's not like it made it worse.

 

[Wile E]

12ga should be plenty. I'm sorry, and I don't mean this to be insulting in any way, but I'm gonna have to say placebo effect. Bi-wiring won't make a difference unless those terminal bridges are really high resistance.

12ga walmart stuff is better than 16ga premium stuff. Just buy banana plugs and do it yourself.

 

[shevanel]

Ok sounds good, I'll just hit up walmart for another spool of that cheapo $12 12ga stuff.. I chopped these leads up to short and I move the receiver so now I barely have any slack.. I would run to walmart tonight but I already know they do not carry b-plugs so I'll wait and get some with this newegg order I have to make on a few cases.

With the b-plugs, do I just slide in wire and crimp it? Never used em.. should I just use them on the speakers or the Rec. too?

It's hard to call placebo on this one bec. I really do notice a difference mainly in the vocals and higher frequencies ... I'm not going to debate it or anything, I respect you guys enough to not question your opinions and knowledge but I look at it this way - it's only 2 extra leads, and it cannot make the sound worse right?

 

[Wile E]

Ok sounds good, I'll just hit up walmart for another spool of that cheapo $12 12ga stuff.. I chopped these leads up to short and I move the receiver so now I barely have any slack.. I would run to walmart tonight but I already know they do not carry b-plugs so I'll wait and get some with this newegg order I have to make on a few cases.

With the b-plugs, do I just slide in wire and crimp it? Never used em.. should I just use them on the speakers or the Rec. too?

It's hard to call placebo on this one bec. I really do notice a difference mainly in the vocals and higher frequencies ... I'm not going to debate it or anything, I respect you guys enough to not question your opinions and knowledge but I look at it this way - it's only 2 extra leads, and it cannot make the sound worse right?

Depends on the type of banana plugs you get. Some are crimp on, some are set screw with a cover, etc., etc.

Good place for screw on (bottom 4): http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115

 

[shevanel]

Ok, so today I bought 12ga wire, the round kind with thick inner wires.. I bought a spool of red and a spool of black and ran them to the speakers with only one lead and I put those brackets back on and I swear it does not sound as good as it did.. the detail is gone again like before.

I don't have enough line to do bi-wire and I am going to have to because this just doesn't sound like it did and I instantly noticed the difference.

Do you really think it could be something to do with the brackets not being good enough or the internal crossovers working better with the signal divided between all the speakers?

 

[Wile E]

Gotta be a design flaw in the speakers themselves. Technically, the only thing changed by bi-wiring is resistance.

 

[MohawkAngel]

Hi. I just tought it could help you if i posted my setup.
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=1933192#post1933192

I am having 3 way boxes. The important is to find a speaker set with low, medium, high separated very low frequency for sub and high frequency for tweeter. The middle imo is less important cause you can always modifiy it with a good amp like mine or directly in the sound setup of your computer.

Also someone posted it to me for wire gauge thickness
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
Hoping it could help you.

 

[TheMonkey]

As a musician, I have a higher-order understanding of music itself, so my only concern when it comes to audio, is accurate reproduction.

So, I play guitar/bass, keyboards, drums, and trumpet. I can record my own songs, and when I play them back, I expect things to sound EXACTLY as they were when played live.

And with that in mind, while I know a bit about surround stuff, my main focus is on stereo reproduction.

All my comments are based on my own personal search for accurate reproduction of my own music.

Not trying to be rude or anything, but what is your "critical listening" setup? I just have never met an educated audiophile/musician that would recommend or even consider using a AV receiver as D-A or as amplification, let alone purchase speakers such as those for a proper or accurate stereo setup. There are many roads the OP could have taken to get much better sound within his budget. For instance a good cheap DAC such as the one in my sig followed by a good integrated amp/power amp (used and easy to find on CL) and a nice set of popular vintage speakers (AR/Advent/DCM/ADS/Klipsch/B&O/speakerlab). For instance my current main is my PC-->Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1 ($150)--->Akai AM2600 stereo integrated amp ($40 used on CL)---->DCM QED (rare transmission lines - $20 from GoodWill).

$210 and sounds better than anything under $2000, and I have listened to a lot of systems ranging up to 12g's. Wish I had seen this thread earlier... oh well I think I saw someone mention that in this field ignorance is bliss, this is so true and I tell ppl that all the time. Hope your enjoying what you've got!


I wish I had seen this thread earlier...