1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Bitcoins!

Discussion in 'General Software' started by pantherx12, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. Bow

    Bow

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2,488 (1.06/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,139
    Location:
    South of Planet Earth
    I have also been thinking about getting into Bitcoin. AS a hobby. I Crunch for TPU so my pc is running 24/7 anyway. I am just not sure where to start? I will have to do some reading up on it. Thinking about adding a second GPU for mining.​
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  2. Castiel

    Castiel

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,319 (1.37/day)
    Thanks Received:
    310
    You can start today if you want, because with AMD cards they mine better than nVidia. Though with video cards in a pc it can run up your electricity bill. I suggest save and put your money towards a ASIC type mining solution.
     
  3. mafia97

    mafia97

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,090 (0.51/day)
    Thanks Received:
    139
    Location:
    Delhi,India
    I am a Student , looking for ways to support my family so that my education and my hobbies are easier on them.
    What do you recommend I should do ?
     
  4. xvi

    xvi

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,261 (0.76/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,598
    Location:
    Washington, US
    From what I understand, Bitcoins and GPUs are generally unprofitable (unless you or someone you don't want to hate you is paying for electricity). Invest in an ASIC (do your research to figure out which one you want to use) or use your GPUs to mine a Scrypt-based currency instead.
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  5. Bow

    Bow

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2,488 (1.06/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,139
    Location:
    South of Planet Earth
    My pc Crunches 24/7 now, so power bill is not really a problem. What di I need to do/know to get started? I can use all the help I can get. I hear joining a pool is better.
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  6. NinkobEi

    NinkobEi

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,045 (0.69/day)
    Thanks Received:
    340
    How is leaving a program open for a long time considered a hobby? And why would you spend $180 on a usb miner that mines .00001 bitcoins per day. It'll take years to be profitable, if ever.
     
  7. NinkobEi

    NinkobEi

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,045 (0.69/day)
    Thanks Received:
    340
    Get a job or help around the house.
     
    RCoon, Octopuss and xenocide say thanks.
  8. Castiel

    Castiel

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,319 (1.37/day)
    Thanks Received:
    310
    @NinkobEi Please leave the negativity out or don't participate in the thread. I am just trying to give information to the people that are wanting to know more. And I consider it a hobby because I am not looking to make a profit. And forgive me for not completely explaining myself on my plan to invest more than $180 into my bitcoin mining to make it more clear.
     
    xvi and The Von Matrices say thanks.
  9. Castiel

    Castiel

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,319 (1.37/day)
    Thanks Received:
    310
    I suggest to purchase an AMD card, like a 5770 on the cheap side. Upgrade a couple generations more to increase your hash rate. And yes, join a pool because trying to solve a block on your own will take you forever.
     
    xvi and Bow say thanks.
  10. The Von Matrices

    The Von Matrices

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,394 (0.95/day)
    Thanks Received:
    478
    I think you should separate "getting into" Bitcoin with mining it. You don't need to have anything to do with mining to own Bitcoin. Mined coins are no more valuable or different than coins you purchase using other currencies. Therefore you should only look at the economic aspect when considering mining. The problem is that even the most powerful GPUs like a 7970/280X will only mine about 0.0004 BTC/day, or $0.36. I have extremely cheap electricity at $0.077/kWh and that would still cost me $0.72/day in electricity to make $0.36. If you want Bitcoin, direct mining is about the worst way to obtain it.

    You can do what I do, which is to mine scrypt currencies on GPUs and exchange them for Bitcoin. You'll get about 50x more revenue doing that, which makes it worthwhile. However, as I said, you need to consider this as a business transaction. There is no good to be gained in losing money while mining. It's not like losing money while using your GPUs to fold proteins and help the scientific community.
     
  11. Castiel

    Castiel

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,319 (1.37/day)
    Thanks Received:
    310
    @The Von Matrices Could you give a link to a tutorial or a doc that will show you how to setup mine scrypting?
     
  12. xenocide

    xenocide

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,154 (1.57/day)
    Thanks Received:
    466
    Location:
    Burlington, VT
    I've never heard of these Scrypt Currencies, any introductory articles I could check out?
     
  13. james888

    james888

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    4,769 (3.72/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,976
    There is a whole dedicated TPU crunching team that makes a hobby of just that, although you purposefully said it overly simplistic. Your a troll. Move on.
     
    xvi, The Von Matrices and Castiel say thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  14. The Von Matrices

    The Von Matrices

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,394 (0.95/day)
    Thanks Received:
    478
    An overview of scrypt:

    Basically, there are two major hashing algorithms used for cryptocurrency - SHA-256 (used by Bitcoin) and scrypt (used by Litecoin). scrypt is intended to use large amounts of memory making it impractical to implement on an ASIC or even a GPU in order to prevent any one entity from gathering a bunch of ASIC miners and taking over the network. However, Litecoin failed to implement scrypt properly by not using enough memory, so there is potential to use GPUs and ASICs to speed up hashing, just without as much of a gain as they gave to SHA-256.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrypt

    Bitcoin is by far the largest cryptocurrency, with about an order of magnitude larger market cap than any others, but there are many other smaller ones with new startups being created (and failing) every day. All the startups I've seen use either SHA-256 or scrypt. Wikipedia lists the largest cryptocurrencies and their differences from Bitcoin in this informative table:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies

    Since all these coins are independently traded, there is money to be made by performing arbitrage between them, which is what the mining pool I use does. This is a good site to compare the current profitability of the coins tradeable on exchanges:

    http://www.dustcoin.com/
     
    xvi says thanks.
  15. The Von Matrices

    The Von Matrices

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,394 (0.95/day)
    Thanks Received:
    478
    I've had a few people ask me about this, and I've answered this in private messages, but it makes sense to post it here so that I can help more people at the same time. I probably will update this post a few times to clear up any missing or outdated information (last updated 16 December 2013 10:42PM EST). Feel free to as me any questions about items I may have missed in this post and if it is widely applicable I will add it to this post.

    Getting started with scrypt:

    There are two options in mining - to mine the coins you want directly, and to mine alternative coins and allow the pool to exchange them for the coins you want. I choose the latter option since I believe in Bitcoin over the other currencies, but it's a decision completely up to you. Of course, you first need to decide what coin you want to hold, and then create a wallet in that coin.

    Whatever you choose, I highly recommend using a mining pool, since that will guarantee steady payouts (at the cost of a few percent of payouts) instead of trying your luck at finding a block by doing solo mining. Remember, if you solo mine, you only make money if you find a block; otherwise, you make nothing. With a pool, you earn a share of any blocks found by anyone in the pool proportional to the amount of hashing power you put into the pool.

    As far as what pool to use, I don't have any definitive recommendations. I just want to convert to Bitcoin, so the pool I use is middlecoin.com. It mines all sorts of scrypt coins and changes coin depending on what is most profitable at the moment. You get paid in Bitcoin every 24 hours. If you want to be paid in the native currency like Litecoin or Novacoin, for example, you need to find a pool that mines and pays out in that currency.

    When looking for a pool, you of course should consider the fees involved, but it's also worth considering the amount of time the pool is down. Many of the cheaper pools have lower connection reliability, and you may lose more money by not mining when the connection is down than you would be charged in fees. It's hard to evaluate this reliability just by looking at websites, but generally the largest pools got their position because they are the most reliable.

    Setting up scrypt mining:

    I'm using CGMiner and Windows. There of course are other programs and you can use Linux, but I do not have experience with them. You need CGMiner version 0.7.2 and not the latest version (the later versions have deprecated scrypt mining). You can get it from http://ck.kolivas.org/apps/cgminer/3.7/cgminer-3.7.2-windows.zip.

    The one thing that you must know is that by default Windows limits any program to 512MB of VRAM, and that restriction absolutely kills scrypt mining performance. To remove that limit and allow the program to use up to 100% of available VRAM, you need to create a short batch file that lifts the limit then runs the miner. You just need to create a text document with three lines:

    Code:
    setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
    setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
    C:\Mining\cgminer-3.7.2-windows\cgminer.exe (or whatever your cgminer directory is)
    Then save the text document as a .bat file and open that to run cgminer instead of just clicking on cgminer.exe.

    The default parameters of the program are OK to start off with, but you will want to tune them as described later. When you open the program for the first time, it will ask you for the pool link, the miner username, and the miner password. Note that these are not the same as your website, username, and password to the pool you chose. These mining credentials are provided at the pool's website. They don't need to be secure when you create them (since who cares if someone else mines for your account?).

    One the program is started, you should save a configuration file so you don't need to re enter these settings every time you start cgminer. Type "s" to get to settings, then "w" to write config file. Just press "enter" to save the default filename. This will create a "cgminer.conf" file in your cgminer directory. This file can be opened in any text editor

    Tweaking your settings to get the best hash rate:

    I highly suggest reading the SCRYPT-README.txt file in the cgminer directory and that will tell you almost everything you need to know about adjusting settings of the program.

    Scrypt mining requires a lot more tweaking than SHA-256 (Bitcoin algorithm) mining. You will need to modify the cgminer.conf file you created earlier. The three important points from the SCRYPT-README file:

    I find that difficulty of 13 is the highest hash rate on most cards. However, you might need to lower this intensity or your air cooled card can overheat. If you experience overheating, it's generally better to lower clock speeds on your card (even below stock speeds) before lowering intensity.

    This is important. You should make thread concurrency a multiple of the number of shaders on your card. The advice here is generally good - at about 4x the number of shaders on VLIW4/GCN GPUs, the gains from increasing thread concurrency will level off. you can go higher to get a slightly faster hash rate, but remember that increasing this multiple uses more and more VRAM. When tweaking this you should use a program like GPU-Z and monitor VRAM use so that it is not larger than the amount of VRAM on the card; otherwise, you will lose a ton of performance due to using system memory.

    Overclocking your GPU:

    Again, the SCRYPT-README file provides some good guidance:

    Almost everything in the system affects hash rate, so you should not expect to get the exact same hash rate as anyone else using the same card. The rule of thumb is to overclock GPU memory as much as you possibly can, then raise the core speed gradually until the performance begins to drop. You don't really need to push the core to get high hash rates. For my 7970s, 1850MHz memory works best with only a 1050MHz core. As I said earlier, you optimal clock speeds will certainly differ from mine. Also, keep an eye on the number of hardware errors in cgminer, which are listed under "HW:". If everything is working properly, you should get zero hardware errors.

    Other things to consider:

    If you want your computer to mine continuously, it might be worth using a program like cgwatcher. This program monitors cgminer and your computer's performance and makes changes to ensure that the computer is operational including restarting cgminer or the computer.

    http://manotechnology.blogspot.com/p/cgwatcher.html[/QUOTE]
     
    Castiel, Bow, xvi and 1 other person say thanks.
  16. mafia97

    mafia97

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,090 (0.51/day)
    Thanks Received:
    139
    Location:
    Delhi,India
    Can't get a job because my college take 12 hours of my day. and I do help around the house .
     
  17. mauriek

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Messages:
    202 (0.07/day)
    Thanks Received:
    86
    Location:
    Mataram-NTB, Indonesia
    when i considered my mining/folding/crunching activity as hobby, actually it's a fun hobby, and rewarding too, researching, spending hours to tune the PC setting, calculating which profitable coin, and trading it.
    and with current price the hobby can pay their own cost and save a little for any hard day.
     
    Castiel says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  18. NinkobEi

    NinkobEi

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,045 (0.69/day)
    Thanks Received:
    340
    Good news everyone! Now you can make your own Altcoin and pump-and-dump it just like bitcoin!
    http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=scry...lone_scrypt_based_altcoins_for_fun_and_profit

    While TPU Crunching you are working with a community of people you know for the betterment of the world. Bitcoin is a desperate cashgrab feeding the Winklevoss' pyramid scheme.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. xvi

    xvi

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,261 (0.76/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,598
    Location:
    Washington, US
    I'm doing some light mining to offset my BOINC/WCG costs for hardware and electricity. The way I see it, if other people want to effectively pay me to validate transactions, I'll oblige them. At the end of the day, I get better hardware that can be used for WCG (and a nice gaming session now and then).

    I'm not a fan of ASICs just because once they're unprofitable, they're only good for scrap. A video card after it's unprofitable is still a video card.
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  20. NinkobEi

    NinkobEi

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,045 (0.69/day)
    Thanks Received:
    340
    Found this kind of funny.
    [​IMG]

    Meanwhile dogecoin value has increased by +241.09% in the last 24 hours.

    Also, this is pretty big news about the coin. Hope you guys cashed out already!
    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/2013/12/19/09/41/bitcoin-suicide-warning-issued-on-reddit

     
  21. r9

    r9

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144 (0.91/day)
    Thanks Received:
    284
    When I tried to make payment there was a timer that finished and they still have not received the payment even though I paid, so the many were spend and the order was not completed. Than I just wrote mail about my problem and after 24 hours it was all corrected and I received the items 3-4 days after. That is way I wanted to tell my experience knowing that this all bitcoin thing how you chose to look at it it is shady business.
     
  22. Vario

    Vario

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3,104 (0.92/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,026
    read about the guy that threw away a $7m harddrive... lol
     
  23. Tomaxitoo New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
    Messages:
    4 (0.01/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1
    Hi all, I have a question I'm all coins miner and mino 4 r9 xfx 280x,
    I'm going to flash, to get more performance in the pool, which bios you recommend me to use?
    He also had other doubts, what if I put a xfx bios of asus direct CU 280x?
    and if I put a 290x bios cualquierda happens?

    Thank you so much!
    I hope you can help me ..
     
  24. james888

    james888

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    4,769 (3.72/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,976
    I don't think bios are going to help you that much.
     
    xvi says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  25. Tomaxitoo New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
    Messages:
    4 (0.01/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1
    xfx happens if you change the bios and put a asus bios?
     

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)

Share This Page