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Building a new PC, could use some help.

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Slepa, May 17, 2014.

  1. Slepa New Member

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    Hey guys. The last time I built a desktop was in 2006, so I'm a bit rusty and in dire need of a new PC. My budget is around 2000-3000€ so this desktop will last for years to come and enjoy even future games even at 4K resolutions.

    So far I've picked the following parts:

    RAM: 16GB, DDR3, 2133MHz
    CPU: i7 4770K
    GPU: GTX 780 Ti ROG Matrix DirectCU II
    SSD: Samsung EVO 840, 500GB
    Optical drive: Asus 12x Blu-Ray

    What motherboard and PSU should I choose? I don't have a clue how much power the PSU should have. 750W? 850W? It NEEDS to be a modular PSU with 80+ gold/platinum.

    PS. I will not be overclocking anything, so don't take that into account for the PSU or any other component.

    EDIT: These are the ones that I've been looking in to:

    Corsair 650W, CS650M
    AsRock Z87 PRO3
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
  2. M0rt

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    If you're not gonna overclock anything, lose the "K" processor.

    If you're gonna stick with one GPU, a 550w PSU is all you'll need. Go 750 - 850w for SLI.

    EVGA G2, Cooler Master V Series, and Seasonic (branded or OEM) are the options I'd consider. Ditch the Corsair CS line!

    You can save some coin with an H87 motherboard too because overclocking is off the table.
     
  3. LaytonJnr

    LaytonJnr

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    Hello,

    Are you planning on overclocking at all in the future? Would you ever think about overclocking in the next two years? If not, then you might as well get a non-K processor - the K processors are designed for overclocking. I would suggest an i7 4770 or 4790 if you won't be overcloking in the future.

    Now, at the moment 4K gaming really doesn't work properly. The technology is still in its infancy for gaming, and so even the top end GTX 780 Ti is likely to struggle at the moment. My suggestion is if you want 4K gaming, you are probably going to need to have 2-way GTX 780 Ti SLI, which is fairly expensive. So, I would buy one GTX 780 Ti for now, and see whether technology develops enough for 4K gaming to be worth it, then buy a second GTX 780 Ti later. Now this future upgrade would mean planning now with the parts - for GTX 780 Ti SLI, the minimum PSU you would need would be 850W, but I would be tempted to get 1000W just to be on the safe side for future upgrading. I say this because the development of graphics cards for something like 4K will almost certainly have very high power consumptions. If you are just going to stick with the 780 Ti and are unlikely to upgrade, then 650W/750W would be fine.

    Now whatever wattage of PSU you choose, here are some good brands to consider. The Seasonic X-series (80+ Gold, Fully-modular), the Corsair RM series (Gold, Full), the Corsair HX (Gold, Semi), the Corsair AX series (Platinum, Full), or look out for any Seasonic / XFX or Antec 80+ Platinum power supplies.

    So a bit more information about your plans for the future, potential overclocking, and 4K gaming would be helpful.

    Layton
     
    Folding for Team TPU
  4. Slepa New Member

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    My greed over a new PC made me blind to reality. Let's change thing up a little bit. Let's forget 4K gaming and focus on natives like 1080/1440p. I'm pretty the sure the 780 Ti can handle a single monitor of either of these resolutions for years to come. 4K right now is dream that I got too excited about because of G-Sync. When the time comes, time to invest for another PC.

    I've destroyed a couple of PC with overclocking in the past and right now I just can't afford the time invested in those things and risk losing my computer. And since money isn't an issue, I just rater purchase the most powerful parts already OC'd. This being said, is there a reason you would ditch the 4770K? I understand it's for overclocking, but isn't it still the most powerfull processor atm? Or is the i7 3930 better for my current wants? I have never had any AMD products and probably never will, because those 8 cores just seem so useless to me (no professional use at all with this PC).

    I also know that 16GB is overkill, but hey, it's 20€ more over 8GB so why not.

    Unfortunately there isn't a retail seller for Seasonic in Finland. When did Corsair become a stain brand? I remember it being great in the past.

    I have looked into MSI x9 290X Lightning and FX-9590, but I can't seem to wrap my finger around those. They are CLEARLY made for overclockers, and the 780 Ti just offers more raw power out of the box. Same with the 9590; 8 cores with huge clock speeds and a TDP of 220W just seems insane for me when no overclocking will take place. I rather just buy a new CPU when the old one runs out of juice.

    EDIT: The answer to SLI: no. I will be staying with one GPU with the same logic. When the juice runs out, time to get a new one.
     
  5. 64K

    64K

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    Hi Slepa. 2,000€ to 3,000€ is a lot of money. That's about $2,700 to $4,100 here in the USA. You can put together a really nice rig with that kind of money here. I don't build in that price range so I can't help but I would like to make 2 suggestions. Wait a little bit for the i7 Haswell refresh CPU. Even though you don't want to OC it will be clocked higher than the i7 4770K. The other thing is that prices and availability vary depending on where you live. I see that you live in Finland. Could you post a link to the store you will be using to help people pick out parts that are available to you.
     
  6. Slepa New Member

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    Hey, Finland is a very expensive country, unfortunately. You can pretty much add 200 dollars to your USA price tag to get the Finnish price for that product. So while 2000€ seems expensive, is just reality for me.

    Good thing you mentioned the new CPU. Didn't realize they were shipping new chips this year. Also the price range isn't set in stone. I just want to invest a bit more than the average user, so I don't need to update any components next year, but the PC will last me at least 2-3 years. I am most definetly open to all suggestions and compatibility issues that come to them. That components I picked out were just to give a sense of the direction I'm heading towards.

    Here is the link to pretty much the only retailer in Finland. While I highly doubt it will be of any help because it is indeed in finnish, but hey you asked for it! :)

    http://www.jimms.fi/listaa/1144/order/price/desc
     
  7. Lopez0101

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    Well, the 780Ti you've selected is also made with the idea of overclocking mind. The R9 290X has equal or slightly less performance for less money, it just depends on if you really give a shit or not about power usage, and even then, in real world use, it's not that much. You don't have to do one or the other, you can mix and match. The cheapest Ti is 599Euro while the cheapest 290X is 529Euro. Depends on what games you want to play, one is better than the other.

    The 4770k isn't the most powerful processor, the 4960X would be that, desktop wise. If you don't plan on overclocking the I would also save the money and go H87, unless what you want in the mobo can only be found on Z87 boards. And, as someone else mentioned, Intel is doing a CPU refresh shortly, so if you can wait a month or two, I would do that. To either get the updated processors, or to get a discount on the older ones.

    Corsair PSU's are fine, but different PSU product lines have different OEMs.

    Off topic: I lived in Espoo for almost a year. I miss Finland. =[
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
  8. Slepa New Member

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    Well, all the components of high end companies are made with overclocking "in mind", but why wouldn't I invest 100€ more for an already OC'd 780 Ti over the regular 780? Even if I'm not going to overclock it, it is still more powerful. This just makes more sense to me. On a 2000€ computer that 100€ is just w/e.

    The motherboard I picked out because it supported the memory and processor I wanted to use for an actually nice price. Since (like I have stated countless times) overclocking is out of the window, I won't need a high end motherboard. That one was the only one under 100€ that supported 2133Mhz and the LGA1150.

    The price difference between lightning and 780 Ti is like 50€ so no competition here. And unless you can statistically prove to me that Radeon card perform better, I wil always choose Geforce over Radeon. Sure, radeon has mantle, but that won't do anything since I'll be going with a high end CPU.

    The problem with 4960X is the socket. Those are mainly for professional & server usage, right? I see no benefit, unless, again, you can explain to me why it's better. The reason I asked for help in this forum is the simple fact of explanations :)

    In Espoo, eh? Whatcha you here? :)
     
  9. Lopez0101

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    LGA2011 is aimed at the very high-end, it supports quad channel memory, among other things. Xeon is professional/server usage. 4960X is still an i7.

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/R9_290X_PCS_Plus/9.html You can start there and look through the benchmarks, it's pretty neck and neck with a 780Ti if you're going to be playing at 1440p. It does use more power and it is hotter, but it costs less on the site you're using by around 80-100Euro. That much money is like, 10 beers in Finland!

    Of course, getting a factory OC'd 780Ti, it'll perform a bit better.

    I worked in Helsinki. Lovely city. You might think it's weird of me, but I miss the weather. But hey, I'm just a dumb American. =P
     
  10. Slepa New Member

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    Ah, right, Xeon. I guess I'll have to wait for the new chips then. If I read correctly, they are also LGA1150 so I wouldn't even have to change out the motherboard.

    I actually concluded my buying decision of the 780 Ti based on THAT link you provided. The regular 780 Ti already beats the 290x, so the OC'd model of Asus would just be straight out better. Don't get me wrong, I love the Lightning. It's the first Radeon card I have EVER even considered buying. While I don't care about power comsuption as a general rule, I do keep my PC on almost 24/7 so it hurts if it's too power heavy.

    What's wrong with Finlands weather? It's not London, lol. Helsinki is actually a very warm place in the winter :p What did you do for work?
     
  11. LaytonJnr

    LaytonJnr

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    The performance you receive between a K processor and non-K version of the processor are extremely similar - the only real difference is one is overclockable and the other is cheaper. But if you have the money for a K, I don't see why not, as you can always overclock in the future if you'd like. I'd recommend waiting for the Haswell refresh for processors like the i7 4790K, paired with one of the new Z97 motherboards.

    Why not hey? I mean, you're unlikely to see a massive benefit, unless video editing. But for that money, why not?!

    Firstly, just because a brand is good, doesn't mean all their products are good. Some of the budget-oriented Corsair PSUs are a bit rubbish and less money efficient. If you're not SLI-ing, then I'd recommend a Corsair RM650 or RM750 PSU - 80+ Gold and fully modular. Its a shame you can't get Seasonic, as they are a very solid PSU maker. You could look out for the new 80+ Gold XFX XTR series of PSUs that are coming out - they're made by Seasonic, but I think they're available in Finland (not sure, sorry).

    The higher end motherboards provide more than just overclocking potential - they include more storage support, such as the new SATA express and M.2 ports which will make new SSDs even faster, for future upgrades. Some have Thunderbolt support, which is good for connectivity. Motherboard manufacturers also put a lot of their high-end features on these boards, some of which are not overclocking related. And what's the harm with having the potential of overclocking?

    A lot of information...

    Layton
     
    Folding for Team TPU
  12. Slepa New Member

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    Solid info, but all in all, would you be against the motherboard I chose? I am, of course, open to any suggestions as to what would be great with this lineup. Motherboard has always been my weak point in building a PC, since I can't wrap my finger around anything it offers knowing it's gonna be utter shit in the next couple of years (not supporting new tech etc.). All I really need right now are USB 3.0 ports, which the board offers. Thunderbolt has zero usage for me. Sure, keeping the future in mind, but by the time thunderbolt becomes useful something more powerful has already come out and by that time I will probably be building my next pc. Thunderbolt was never a thing in Europe.
     
  13. Slepa New Member

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    I'll just throw this in here:

    Let's say you guys are in my shoes. You want a high end gaming pc with no worries about the budget or any professional needs. What would the components be for you? You can include the new haswell refresh CPU's.

    And to avoid retarded setups like a 5000€ machine (let's be realistic here), the geforce Titan is out of the question. The factory OC'd 780 Ti is already more powerful than Titan Black with 500€ less price...
     
  14. LaytonJnr

    LaytonJnr

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    Well considering the Haswell refresh, I would start looking at the Z97 versions of the motherboards as opposed to the Z87 one you mentioned. One thing I would look out for is the M.2 SATA support - looks like its going to be big tech in the next year. But to be honest, the motherboard can often last quite a number of years if you buy the right one. But if you think you're likely to upgrade again within the next three years, then get the board that suits your needs now, and then think about a better motherboard next time if you need it. The one you mentioned earlier looks like its got good features for the average user, and seeing as you're not overclocking, its probably going to be completely fine for you. But as I said, start looking at Z97 boards for the Haswell refresh.

    Are you upgrading your case also?

    Layton
     
    Folding for Team TPU
  15. Lopez0101

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    Nothing, I said I liked it. I just know some Finns tire of the long winters and I heard this year's winter was shit, hardly any snow. It's lovely in summer though! I just wish Finns knew what screens were and put them on their windows. I honestly don't recall seeing any on windows there, so the stupid bugs kept coming into my room. Not a problem in the winter, but annoying in the summer. I worked at the US Embassy.

    I got myself a 4770k in December, but I do mess around with the clocks on it. I like to get Radeon's because Nvidia needs competition, otherwise they'll keep putting out crap like Titan and Titan-Z at absurd price points.
     
  16. Slepa New Member

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    Z87 doesn't support Haswell refresh? If that's the case, that would be the only reason to change the motherboard.

    And yes, I'm also getting a case. I don't have a desktop at all atm, which is why I'm so anxious of getting one. I'm currently running Asus ROG G750JW laptop, which, well, is nice but it's still a laptop. Here's detailed list of the parts that I have picked:

    Asus 12x BD-DVD-RW, SATA
    Cooler Master CM Storm Stryker
    Intel Haswell i7-4770K
    Asus NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 TI ROG Matrix DirectCU II
    AsRock Z87 PRO3,
    Samsung 500GB 840 Evo Series
    Kingston 16GB (2 x 8GB) HyperX Predator, DDR3 2133MHz, CL11, 1.6V, XMP
    BenQ 27" XL2720Z LED-monitori, 144Hz, 1920x1080, 1ms, 12M:1

    Seasonic 650W X-650 modulaarinen ATX-virtalähde, 80 plus GOLD (FOUND IT!)


    Total price: 2710.60€

    What would you guys change in this setup? I think now that I'll wait for the new haswell cpu's and change the 4770k for the new version.

     
  17. Lopez0101

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    The only thing I would do is get a 1440p monitor if you're going to get a 780 Ti. Having used a 27" 1440p monitor, I'm never going back to a 1080p one.
     
  18. LaytonJnr

    LaytonJnr

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    Cases are often a very personal thing. I think the case you've chosen is very nice, has good features, but not perhaps my kind of case.

    I would, if money allowed, get a 1440p monitor, as the 780 Ti will handle that thing amazingly. I also think the pixels per inch on a 27in 1080p monitor are just too low, and that would annoy me. I think the limit for a 1080p monitor should be 24in, as its close to your face, and I don't like being able to see pixels. 1080p TVs are different as they're further away. But a 1440p monitor would be a very good idea!

    Layton
     
    Folding for Team TPU
  19. Slepa New Member

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    https://www.asus.com/us/News/xXtX0FNhXQWPrry7

    This was my other choice, but I would have to wait a long time for it to be released.

    Edit: While this monitor would put my setup to whopping 3200€, the G-Sync alone would be worth it, even if it was 1080p. Damn. My whole paycheck is gonna go on this thing.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
  20. Lopez0101

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    I don't think G-Sync is worth the premium and at 120Hz it's most likely a TN panel, but it doesn't say in the specs. If you don't care about viewing angles and colors and want G-Sync that badly, go for it.
     
  21. Slepa New Member

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    Yes, it is a TN panel.
    Taken from Asus website:
    Why is the display TN rather than IPS/PVA/MVA, etc?
    Not all TN’s are made the same: the premium panel used in the PG278Q is of very high quality. IPS panels (and their derivatives like PVA/MVA etc) are not suitable for a multitude of reasons: 1) the response rate is simply not fast enough to react to the active change in refresh rate and 2) Current panels available cannot reliably achieve >60Hz without significantly affecting the quality of the image. IGZO technology (and LTPS – low temperature polysilicon – likewise) – yields 100′s of times faster electron mobility versus standard amorphous silicon panels – and thus can provide a response rate comparable to TN (up to 60Hz currently), but, however desirable this technology is, it is still currently cost prohibitively for many PC gaming enthusiasts at this moment, which is why ROG has used a better price:performance, high quality TN panel.
     
  22. Lopez0101

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    Meh. I still prefer IPS. I can't get 120FPS anyway at 1440p, nor can any single card at high to max graphics settings - reliably.
     
  23. LaytonJnr

    LaytonJnr

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    They could never achieve 1ms GTG with an IPS panel without giving up something else that makes the IPS panel better in the first place. You are waiting for the Haswell refresh, so why not wait a lil bit for the monitor too - the website says Q2 which is pretty much the next few months.

    Layton
     
    Folding for Team TPU
  24. Slepa New Member

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    The 120Hz is important to me. I will be running the games at 100-120 fps, even if I can't use the max settings. The graphical detail in multiplayer has never been an issue for me. My laptop can run Titanfall with high settings, but I still prefer to run it on Low so I can get those smooth frames and never be gimped by them. The reason I chose the BenQ monitor with 1080p was one of the reasons for this. It is far easier to achieve that fps with that resolution. Although I have no idea how 1080p looks on a 27" monitor. I'll be sitting about a 1 meter away from, so 27" sounds just about right.

    Yes, you are right. But I'm still not sure about the monitor. 1440p sounds nice, but is it really worth it? I just feel like I'm gimping my performance. Might be wrong though.

    BUT... The fact that is has G-Sync pretty much makes up for it, since from what I've understood G-Sync is for syncing frames with resfresh rates.
     
  25. GhostRyder

    GhostRyder

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    Well that depends, R9 290X does much better at a higher resolution than 780ti does especially in multi-GPU scaling. However if your just wanting to do 1080p, a 780ti is a better option (Even at 1440p its pretty even but the 780ti does win out in the end mostly because of overclocking).

    If you want my advice with 1440p, skip it because 4k is just around the corner and 1440p and 1600p have lost most focus because of that. While I have used one before (A couple friends of mine have some) they look real nice, but you might as well wait since 4k seems to be the next big focus for companies and developers. As far as G-Sync is concerned, if your going to focus on a 120hz setup, G-Sync would actually benefit you decently since its much harder to keep that area stable FPS than the normal 60FPS. However that being said, the new Vesa DisplayPort standard just came out which in a way has that built in and will become a standard soon enough so its lasting effects on whether G-Sync will keep being relevant remains to be seen.

    My advice to your build is this at your budget.

    Based on the fact you do not intend to overclock, grab the i7 4790 that just came out and you will be happy because its stock settings are higher. However if you may want to try it sometime in the future, grab the 4770k and grab a hyper 212 for the cooler to allow some heavy overclock headroom (Or grab an AIO liquid cooler like the H100).

    Ram, go for the gold at 2133mhz.

    PSU, just stick with a 550-600 since you have no interest in SLI or CFX.

    Case is just up to you, I like Corsair and Fractal cases personally. I would just pick based on what you like or the size your interested in. If you want some specifics I could offer up a few that I like but your the one looking at it so I would just say pick your favorite :)

    Motherboard, I would say get an MSI gamer series Z97 board. They tend to offer alot of bang for buck and great performance.

    GPU, well personally I would get this if you do not plan on overclocking yourself. Grab this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125493

    Highest overclock available for a 780ti ive seen.
     

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