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Building server-like video surveillance PC by tomorrow 4K$ budget

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by n-ster, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. n-ster

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    So I made a thread like 45 days ago about how to set up the storage for this PC. I've decided for 6-8 WD Red 3TB drives, either just seperately or RAID 5 if needed. This is for a 20 camera 2MP (1080p).


    Budget: 4000$, preferably under 3000$

    Before choosing any other parts, I want to choose which processor/mobo combo to go with


    - Xeon E5 1650 650$ + SUPERMICRO X9SRE-3F mobo 430$ + Kingston DDR3 1333 ECC unbuffered RAM (130$)

    I want stuff that lasts... This has to last like 10 years. Noise-wise, silence is not needed, however, considering it is an office environment, it can't be like a reference 6950 fan at 100%.

    Case: No Idea... Something of good quality and enough airflow (100~200$?)

    PSU: should I go with server PSUs? I also like the Kingwin LZP-550 if I'm going with standar PSUs... pricey for what is it though (200$)

    HSF + fans: I'm guessing a tradition aircooler is best? Noctua D14 style? For fans perhaps Noctua or Delta fans? what kind lasts long? (100$)

    SSD: I'm thinking Samsung 830 256GB because of it's documented longevity (240$)

    Windows 7 Pro - 150$

    6 x 3TB WD Reds - 1150$

    idk if I'm over my head with this one but I'm sure going to have fun!

    So far that is about 3200$. Seems good!
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  2. CJCerny

    CJCerny

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    I'm just wondering how you got your client to pony up $4k when you can buy a very nice dedicated 2TB system with 16 cameras for $900. It might not last 10 years, but you can't predict whether your build will last 10 years either. My point is: are you building this for them or yourself?
     
  3. n-ster

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    I'll be there for emergencies but they are ready to pay up extra for a long lasting server... Ther cameras cost 15K$ so 3-4K for the server is not that bad

    I'm building this for them as they were this close to paying 20K for 16 1MP cameras and a 3 year old refurbished POS server. Megapixel is a whole different game then analog cameras, and Canada is more expensive than the US. A typical client like mine pays 15K for 16-20 600x480 and some Xeon equivalent of a Core 2 Quad with 2TB storage, so when he was offered for the same price 1.3MP (1280x1024) cameras and 6TB, he was ready to jump on it. I was able to get 20 2MP cameras + LGA 2011 server and 20TB. If it was up to my client, I'd be building a dual socket E5 2687W or whatnot with expensive NAS storages

    Also, I'm doing this more as a favor to them as I won't be charging them anything but using their Credit Card for the parts
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  4. CJCerny

    CJCerny

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    Okay...I don't do surveillance systems, but I've seen a lot of them installed and working. The DVR itself is always a low power box running low power drives. On top of that, they always run a custom software/firmware that is usually running on an embedded OS running on an Atom or ARM CPU rather than something like Win 7. The reason they do this is because low power hardware generally lasts longer, not high power high heat hardware. The more heat you generate, the more fans you need. The more fans you need, the more likely they are to fail, and the more dust they suck in to increase the likelyhood of failure. I'm not sure that taking the beefy DVR route that you are taking makes it more reliable--there are lots of people who would probably disagree with you there.
     
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  5. n-ster

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    We had huge performance problems with the P4 3.XX Ghz (He payed 5K for the server alone)

    Apparently this system needs a LOT of CPU power and RAM... Considering the experience we had with the previous system, I'll take his word for it. There's going to be video encoding and compression going on I believe.... 20 streams of 1080p content is what's going to be stored btw, and 20TB is expected to last 20-30 days. As I said, not sure of the specifics but the guy refuses to work with anything less than a hexa core anyways, so I have no choice. Besides, the 6 other companies quoted me dual Xeon systems too.

    Getting the big performance server is actually for the power and not the longevity

    Now can we assume the power is justified? I'd really like to be able to buy the parts by tomorrow morning at latest and would like TPU's input by then. I appreciate the scepticism though, it's always good to play devil's advocate to make sure everything is right
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  6. Jizzler

    Jizzler

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    Quad input 1080 H.264 encoders, just need 5 of them.

    [​IMG]

    Each with it's own output, so you can watch everyone... all the time...
     

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  7. n-ster

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    These are IP cameras with RJ-45 (Ethernet)

    I want to go with something at least similar to what I've mapped out so far... as I am obliged to go this way, it is not my choice, an Intel hexa core is literally the bare minimum, and if I go with 3930 instead of Xeon they won't be very happy but it's passable
     
  8. Jizzler

    Jizzler

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    And they want to re-encode the video from the IP cameras? Interesting clients you have there :D

    Oh well, if they want to spend the cash, spend that cash and make them happy!
     
  9. n-ster

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    haha I don't ask, I just deliver what they want
     
  10. Mindweaver

    Mindweaver Moderato®™ Staff Member

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    It sounds like your client is lacking a CFO or a good CFO.. But that doesn't help your problem.. I wouldn't use anything less than server grade parts for reliability. Use a dual socket board with 2x CPU's for redundancy. Also, I would use a redundant powersupply. Use server grade ram with ECC error correction. Also, use a RAID array for your storage. :toast:

    EDIT: I wanted to add that I like those clients.. lol :toast: My CFO would shit bricks if I asked for 4k for anything..lol Also, I would suggest using Axis stuff.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
    Crunching for Team TPU
  11. n-ster

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    It's a family-run very small grocery store with a problem with people who steal. Redundancy for the storage drives are pretty useless for them, and up-time isn't critical either. They use the video backup once every month at best and usually within the week of the offense. But they care that the server lasts a long time with minimal upkeep. However I'm going to be available for at least the next 3 years on-demand on-site, afterwards I can provide remote asistance and directions.

    I have no knowledge of server type stuff and cases etc so I need specifics
     
  12. LordJummy

    LordJummy New Member

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    The cameras cost $15K each? What kind of cameras are they using?!

    It sounds like it would be far more cost effective to have NO security. They are losing more money by installing this system versus letting people steal honestly.

    That said, this is a very poor design overall. Don't most cams compress the video on the fly? They had better if they cost $15,000 per camera! If not you should definitely start looking at some alternatives.

    As for the CPU: Xeons and server grade hardware generally do last longer, as they are built and tested to higher standards. If you need CPU power go with something affordable like this:

    Dual E5-2620
    32GB-128GB RAM
    Hardware RAID controllers of choice
    ETC ETC.

    Maybe you should have two different machines. One for storage and one for encoding. Why do you want to go with a desktop format? Why not go with a 4U storage chassis that has proper cooling. Where will these server(s) go? How will they be racked?


    PS: No server is going to last 10 years man. That is not even close to possible. Not to mention the HDD's alone are going to need to be replaced many times over the years, and you're going to have to stock pile the same kind because if it's a RAID setup you will have to rebuild with new drives each time if you dont have the same size and type.

    I would plan for a server like that lasting 3 years, maybe 4 - TOPS. It's going to be extremely outdated in 3-4 years regardless.
     
  13. Jizzler

    Jizzler

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    ^ It only becomes outdated when they want to record footage at 4K :)

    Anyhoo, I believe he meant that it's $15K for all of them or $750 per camera. And yes, they all do some sort of encoding as most are only 100Mb.

    With all that power they must want it transcoded to a different format... possibly to live stream on their fetish website because they're actually HD stall cams! :eek:
     
  14. n-ster

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    haha yes it's 15K$ for 20 cameras including installation, on-site support, warranty, wiring, server configuration, camera software licenses etc.

    10 years are obviously not meant for the hard drives, but for the core components ie: PSU CPU mobo RAM

    idk what's going on that requires the power, I'm just told it will take a lot of juice to properly stream them and archive them at the same time real-time. I'll take their word for it
     
  15. LordJummy

    LordJummy New Member

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    There is no way that even a dual E5-2620 is going to last anywhere near 10 years man. A machine that is pushing that much data 24/7 is going to die at some point much sooner. That's just the unfortunate nature of these electronic components. It's not IMPOSSIBLE, but it is very improbable man. I would plan for the server to last no more than 3 years, maybe 4. I would plan for building a newer redundant server as a failover machine.
     
  16. n-ster

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    idk I based my number off the other servers I saw... I just want it to as last long as possible as long as it's not double the price for 20% more life or something
     
  17. LordJummy

    LordJummy New Member

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    In all honesty the human race will probably be wiped out in under 10 years so I wouldn't worry about it too much ;)
     
  18. n-ster

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    I think I am going to opt for the E1650 and some 4x4GB DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuffered RAM. I think I'll be able to find a board by myself...

    But what type of case am I looking for now? what kind of fans last the longest? Is something like a platinum PSU fine or should I be looking at server PSUs? If so what specifically am I looking for if I want quality
     
  19. LordJummy

    LordJummy New Member

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    Depends on how you are going to mount or rack the server. If you are going to be putting a bunch of controllers and drives in it, you will want a 4U rackmount chassis. They can generally hold up to 24 drives if properly built.
     
  20. n-ster

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    only 6 drives and I don't mind putting 5.25" bay to 3.5" HDD bay adapters. The case will basically be on the floor in a storage space in the back

    apart from the standard psu, cpu, gpu, ram, mobo.... there will be a DVD drive and the 6HDDs... oh yea and 1 or 2 SSDs but that's it. I'm thinking any case type should work as long as it's big enough
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  21. sy5tem

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    it does probably some encoding to mpeg2 , and you run the camera movement and recording base on rules like , if x light no movement don't record, if movement record follow all done server side. also as to run windows 2008 with straming software + some form of database, e.t.c

    i've never seen a server processor die ... ever. for no reason, even seen some of them run on burned out heatsink (fan not spinning) in some of my customer rack. even if 1 was tp die for some reason it take `30 min to change it MAX!

    processor properlly cooled work when it works. we still use pentium xeon single core, for small 10 people company.we peronally use p4 and core duo for freenas and DD-wrt/pfsense router.


    E1650 and some 4x4GB DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuffered RAM

    aSUS Z9PE-D9 WS with a chenbro case here are towers=http://usa.chenbro.com/corporatesite/products_line.php?pos=2
    namely the sr105 http://usa.chenbro.com/corporatesite/products_detail.php?sku=100
    also for the HDD its been tedious finding hd that lastest 3 year. now your going to need a decent set of SAS 10k rpm , or the very least western digital black re4 or mix of hd / ssd, you record and encode on a working raid array with 2x sas 10krpm raid0 . SSD would not live long there, using all write cycles.

    if you buy 2xsas 600bg 10l rpm. you can probalbly get slower 5400 rpm av-gp 24/7. for data storage in raid 6. you can use 1 ssd for os e.tc...

    dvd drive , any sata hdd.... and a good LSI SAS9220-8i PCI raid controller maybe?
     
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  22. n-ster

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    These cases look good but seem to lack airflow? idk how much is needed but my guess is more can't hurt :p

    ASUS Z9PE-D8 WS is a dual socket mobo, I can't find the D9 so I'm guessing that was a typo. I'd rather not buy a dual-socket mobo with buying 2 CPUs, but I'm not even sure the software is going to be properly multi-threaded, so going for so many cores at lower clock rates seems like a riskier decision. Do you have any other suggestions for motherboards?

    I don't mind changing the Hard Drives every few years. The SSDs though will be mostly for OS and writing will be kept to a minimum on them.

    Thanks for your help! :) Oh and good news, boss says the store will be too busy to do the cameras next week so I've prolonged the date of my purchase by about a week at least
     
  23. LordJummy

    LordJummy New Member

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    I'm not saying his processors are going to "die". I'm saying the system as a whole will not last 10 years, period. It's HIGHLY unlikely that a server that is running 24/7 with high disk IO will last 10 years. I work in the web hosting industry, and run several major brands and have for over 10 years now. I've never seen a single machine live for 10 years. Period.
     
  24. n-ster

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    I just want the server to last as long as possible while still having bang/buck (ie: getting 10% more life for double the price isn't worth it... getting 50+% more life for double the price might be)
     
  25. LordJummy

    LordJummy New Member

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    Server grade hardware will definitely guarantee you a lot more life. Desktop hardware based servers in our DC's tend to have a lot more problems, namely RAM & drives, than our high end machines. I never recommend anyone use a desktop hw based server for any mission critical stuff.
     

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