Bulldozer Aims For 50% Improvement By 2014: Is This Really Enough To Counter Intel?

HTC · Oct 16, 2011

qubit said:
It would be incredible if that patch turned out to be real and very good news for AMD and the customer - and bad news for Intel. However, if the performance problem was simply a software fix, you can bet your boots that AMD would have priced the chip much higher and made a helluva noise about it. Or at least a blog post.

Because of this, I think the "patch" is a fake and it's just some blogger trying to get attention on the internet.

Which is why i said i'll believe it when reviewers confirm it.

Super XP · Oct 16, 2011

qubit said:
It would be incredible if that patch turned out to be real and very good news for AMD and the customer - and bad news for Intel. However, if the performance problem was simply a software fix, you can bet your boots that AMD would have priced the chip much higher and made a helluva noise about it. Or at least a blog post.

Because of this, I think the "patch" is a fake and it's just some blogger trying to get attention on the internet.

AMD would never have priced it higher than it is right now, regardless whether a near future patch was set for release. You price the CPU for today's performance competition, not what it may do later on.

As for the Patch, it's already been confirmed, Windows 7 does a bad job with Bulldozer style of design. If people think this patch business is BS, then why does Bulldozer perform much better in Windows 8 :confused:

qubit · Oct 16, 2011

HTC said:
Which is why i said i'll believe it when reviewers confirm it.

Indeed, I was just expanding on your point, not disagreeing with it.

Super XP said:
AMD would never have priced it higher than it is right now, regardless whether a near future patch was set for release. You price the CPU for today's performance competition, not what it may do later on.

As for the Patch, it's already been confirmed, Windows 7 does a bad job with Bulldozer style of design. If people think this patch business is BS, then why does Bulldozer perform much better in Windows 8

I'm not sure I believe that. Even if performance doubles tomorrow, the nature of things is such that they can't put the price up afterwards, as people will just not buy it. So no, I think they've priced it at its true potential. If Bulldozer really does fly with Windows 8 or a Windows 7 patch, then we can make a judgement then. Until then, I remain skeptical, which I think is very healthy for this situation.

Horrux · Oct 16, 2011

qubit said:
Indeed, I was just expanding on your point, not disagreeing with it.

I'm not sure I believe that. Even if performance doubles tomorrow, the nature of things is such that they can't put the price up afterwards, as people will just not buy it. So no, I think they've priced it at its true potential. If Bulldozer really does fly with Windows 8 or a Windows 7 patch, then we can make a judgement then. Until then, I remain skeptical, which I think is very healthy for this situation.

I couldn't agreee more, and I am no intel fanboi.

ensabrenoir · Oct 16, 2011

Even after launch..... we still don't know bulldozer.

Neuromancer · Oct 16, 2011

qubit said:
Indeed, I was just expanding on your point, not disagreeing with it.

I'm not sure I believe that. Even if performance doubles tomorrow, the nature of things is such that they can't put the price up afterwards, as people will just not buy it. So no, I think they've priced it at its true potential. If Bulldozer really does fly with Windows 8 or a Windows 7 patch, then we can make a judgement then. Until then, I remain skeptical, which I think is very healthy for this situation.

I am skeptical of the claims, but not completely dismissing it.

As mentioned, why does it perform better in Windows 8? Looking around on the internet, some people are seeing some minor boosts in performance running windows 8. Others are showing it almost even though.

Assuming the latter then 10% is what you should expect a patch to be capable of with a windows 7 patch.

If threading is the issue though, has anyone tried enabling Thread ordering service on BD in 7?

Back OT: If they release a 12 core CPU at same clocks and same power usage by 2014, they have met their goal (50% performance improvement). Since that is what they are striving for, multi threaded designs only, it is a completely believable roadmap.

Most everyone is saying this is a Fab and windows 7 issue (although windows 7 has been out so long, how they could not have known and created a patch for it at launch is beyond me).

Super XP · Oct 16, 2011

I am hoping AMD's 8-core makes game developers start thinking about multi-threading to the max. I don't see why they couldn't make a game with the ability to either use one core or 8 cores, let it AUTO adjust all by itself depending on your CPU.

Anyhow, they've been quite LAZY for the past several years.

Horrux · Oct 16, 2011

Super XP said:
I am hoping AMD's 8-core makes game developers start thinking about multi-threading to the max. I don't see why they couldn't make a game with the ability to either use one core or 8 cores, let it AUTO adjust all by itself depending on your CPU.

Anyhow, they've been quite LAZY for the past several years.

Multithreading has been the way to more processing power for a number of years now. Single-threaded performance has not progressed much over the last few years. However, it is true that game designers nowadays mostly think in terms of what a console can do, so the extreme progression in total processing power, going from, say, an athlon 64 3500+ to a Phenom II X6 1100t, roughly 10 times the total processing power, is somewhat irrelevant in a lot of games.

But it is changing, BF3 leading the way, Skyrim I expect to make use of multiple cores as well... It definitely is the way forward.

jamesy · Oct 17, 2011

Necrofire said:
diminishing returns is why they haven't added more cache. The extra power, heat, and die-size isn't worth the speed increase to them.
To be fair, their modules are closer to 2 full cores than a core w/ hyperthreading.

Still, I'm dissapointed, as I was waiting to upgrade until their quad core came out. Now I'm seriously contemplating a 2500k setup instead. I want faster wii emulation than i have now on my 550 @ 3.6gHz.

to be fair....the cores are stuck with a quad core interface....i really dont care how many of em you give me...if i can't communicate with em effectively, i won't take em---even for free.

I wouldn't design a highway that needed 4 lanes with 2 lanes. Bottom line. People would crash and burn....amirite?

Neuromancer · Oct 17, 2011

jamesy said:
to be fair....the cores are stuck with a quad core interface....i really dont care how many of em you give me...if i can't communicate with em effectively, i won't take em---even for free.

I wouldn't design a highway that needed 4 lanes with 2 lanes. Bottom line. People would crash and burn....amirite?

Computers are not cars, and if cars were computers, then yes 2 lanes might be enough since the computer would calculate traffic patterns and flow and fit extra cars in all the distances human drivers would need to stop.

dalekdukesboy · Oct 17, 2011

Super XP said:
Nothing like Tom Baker, the best all time Doctor Who.

agreed, I grew up watching him....just hilarious you picked that same picture as I did lol, never saw it on anyone's avatar before, how long you had it? I can't remember but I think I had it since I added my avatar...and ontopic I admit I'm fairly frustrated with AMD, my last AMD chip is an fx-55 which I loved and is sitting in my closet with the abit mobo I used with it...and ever since core 2 duo's came out right up till now UNLESS this patch etc is enough to make a difference the AMD lineup is at best a good "value" but for pure performance and enthusiasts' I think AMD is really in a bad rut of trailing intel...

qubit · Oct 17, 2011

dalekdukesboy said:
agreed, I grew up watching him....just hilarious you picked that same picture as I did lol, never saw it on anyone's avatar before, how long you had it? I can't remember but I think I had it since I added my avatar...and ontopic I admit I'm fairly frustrated with AMD, my last AMD chip is an fx-55 which I loved and is sitting in my closet with the abit mobo I used with it...and ever since core 2 duo's came out right up till now UNLESS this patch etc is enough to make a difference the AMD lineup is at best a good "value" but for pure performance and enthusiasts' I think AMD is really in a bad rut of trailing intel...

Don't ever get rid of that Abit mobo and FX-55 ya hear! These are classics for their time and worth collecting. I've still got an Abit AN8 Ultra paired with an Athlon X2 3800+ and 4GB RAM and those are going nowhere.

jamesy · Oct 18, 2011

Neuromancer said:
Computers are not cars, and if cars were computers, then yes 2 lanes might be enough since the computer would calculate traffic patterns and flow and fit extra cars in all the distances human drivers would need to stop.

Eventually...flow routing and and speed limits reach a point of diminishing returns....we've been at that point for years. Eventually you have to add more lanes.

And speak of this patch.....I heard Ryan shroudt and Patrick Norton talking about it ...they expect 4-6 percent. And I trust them.

Super XP · Oct 18, 2011

jamesy said:
Eventually...flow routing and and speed limits reach a point of diminishing returns....we've been at that point for years. Eventually you have to add more lanes.

And speak of this patch.....I heard Ryan shroudt and Patrick Norton talking about it ...they expect 4-6 percent. And I trust them.

Do you have a link? That would be great news, when you consider Piledriver is also suppose to rectify most of Bulldozer's issues.

Super XP · Oct 18, 2011

erocker said:
I don't see AMD as a company by 2014. I don't see how they will be able to stay afloat. That 50% is needed now in 2011.

Which is why they might stick with low to mid based performance parts and go aggressive with Graphics, something Intel currently lacks. In other words, this stinks for everybody, because we will be seeing high end Intel CPU's priced in excess of $800 :eek:

We can hope that Piledriver will be a nail in Intel's coffin

boise49ers · Oct 18, 2011

Well all I have to say is I'm glad I decided to just go with the PhenomII x6
instead of dropping cash on a problem child. I haven't had any problem with
my CPU and have it running cool and quiet at 3.7 on a Micro ATX.

Neuromancer · Oct 19, 2011

Super XP said:
Which is why they might stick with low to mid based performance parts and go aggressive with Graphics, something Intel currently lacks. In other words, this stinks for everybody, because we will be seeing high end Intel CPU's priced in excess of $800

We can hope that Piledriver will be a nail in Intel's coffin

Oh thats a given. Socket 2011 was expected months ago to be priced in the 1-1.5K range.

If it has 6 or 8 cores available UNDER $1000 I will be surprised

alucasa · Oct 19, 2011

To be utterly honest, you should have known that BD was going to be a flop.

If you followed JF-AMD's posts on web, he started not to talk about IPC at some point. In addition, AMD CEO and other top staff left; that should have been enough signals that BD wasn't going as good as they hoped.

Well, I shouldn't have sold my semi-rare 95w 1065T part, dang it. But I've found i3-2100T (35w) to be a very good cpu for very small builds. AMD has nothing (not even close) that can compete with i3-2100T at the moment.
So, I guess it's Intel for me for a while.

Super XP · Oct 19, 2011

For some Bulldozer is far from being a flop, and to others, well need I say more.

I for one am going to pick one up when the bloody thing becomes available.

zx679 · Oct 19, 2011

Super XP said:
For some Bulldozer is far from being a flop, and to others, well need I say more.
I for one am going to pick one up when the bloody thing becomes available.

I just don't see the point. It's not much of an upgrade if it doesn't offer much of a performance increase. Considering how cheap the Phenom II range is you'd be better off with a PII X4 980 or an X6 and OC'ing it. That is, unless you just want to burn up some money.

FreedomEclipse · Oct 19, 2011

qubit said:
Don't ever get rid of that Abit mobo and FX-55 ya hear! These are classics for their time and worth collecting. I've still got an Abit AN8 Ultra paired with an Athlon X2 3800+ and 4GB RAM and those are going nowhere.

Still Using a MSI Platinum Neo2 with a FX-55 here. Pitty mines a clawhammer so it doesnt overclock very well :cry:

I bought it new off a guy on ebay many many moons ago.

My 3000+ clocks better though lol Ive hit as far as 2.7 or 2.8Ghz on it

Super XP · Oct 19, 2011

zx679 said:
I just don't see the point. It's not much of an upgrade if it doesn't offer much of a performance increase. Considering how cheap the Phenom II range is you'd be better off with a PII X4 980 or an X6 and OC'ing it. That is, unless you just want to burn up some money.

I have a PII x4 940 OC'ed to 3.60 GHz and I know for a fact the FX 8150 blows it out of the water. Anyway I already purchased the Crosshair V Formula on sale along with 16GB of DDR3-1866 (4GB x 4) GSkill RipJaw memory just sitting on my desk all along waiting for Bulldozer's release. This is why I want to upgrade my CPU.

zx679 · Oct 19, 2011

Super XP said:
I have a PII x4 940 OC'ed to 3.60 GHz and I know for a fact the FX 8150 blows it out of the water. Anyway I already purchased the Crosshair V Formula on sale along with 16GB of DDR3-1866 (4GB x 4) GSkill RipJaw memory just sitting on my desk all along waiting for Bulldozer's release. This is why I want to upgrade my CPU.

I don't doubt it. It's the price that bothers me. From NCIX:
PII X4 980 is $180
FX 8150 is $282

and the FX is only faster by about %10 some of the time. The extra $100 doesn't buy you much.

Super XP · Oct 19, 2011

zx679 said:
I don't doubt it. It's the price that bothers me. From NCIX:
PII X4 980 is $180
FX 8150 is $282

and the FX is only faster by about %10 some of the time. The extra $100 doesn't buy you much.

Well perhaps in stock speeds, anyhow I need it more than just gaming personally, so I can use those extra cores. But I fully agree, it's way too overpriced right now, what happend to the original $245 price tag :confused:

zx679 · Oct 19, 2011

Super XP said:
Well perhaps in stock speeds, anyhow I need it more than just gaming personally, so I can use those extra cores. But I fully agree, it's way too overpriced right now, what happend to the original $245 price tag

Good ol' supply vs. demand :ohwell:

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Bulldozer Aims For 50% Improvement By 2014: Is This Really Enough To Counter Intel?

HTC

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