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But can it play Crysis 3?

Discussion in 'Games' started by Crap Daddy, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

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    I see this kind of comment very often, and everytime it sounds really stupid. That happens in every other game that I have played. I'm really curious as to in which game that does not happen, oh yes, besides the scripted ones where hordes after hordes will run until they hide behind the specified crate, never to move again from there (ahem COD, BFBC2), careless to the rain of bullets from my gun. Do I stand in the middle of a street with no cover, will they shoot me? Nah, not until they reach the specified cover on the other side, except they don't because they are dead the next second.

    In Crysis they try to react and they try to find you and that's the difference, they also use collaborative search patterns in the jungle and so on, that's actually a massive improvement in my eyes, because that's PC gaming in my eyes. It's a game and so is not perfect all the time and the more advanced behavior obviously comes with more glitches and loopholes, or this happen more often, like the one you describe, which happens less in other games simply because they just won't try to look for and follow you. Does it have shortcomings? Yes, but the AI in Crysis is years ahead of any other AI game that I have played. You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

    I simply find stupid when someone judges something based on a loophole or an exploit. I guess they could all wait for you on the outside and gently ask you to leave the weapon and arrest you, then spend the next 20 hours of gaming on a cell. I guess that would make for a good game.

    The situation described, you have to "work" for it to happen. You have to first distract them, then wait and wait and wait. I guess that instead of going after you, they could all 20 of them wait outside and shoot you all at once and kill you. Then obviously you would need to avoid such situation, because that situation is stupid no matter how you look at it. So for that 1 time experience, they have to spend the time to create a very complicate AI behavior, so that you can do that thing once, realize how stupid that situation is, and avoid it for the rest of the game as any soldier would do? Here's an idea, why not avoid that situation in the first place and play a game, like a game, Because that situation is always going to be broken in a game or it will create boring/imposible to resolve/have to reload previous save situation.

    Here's a good video about the good and bad things of Crysis AI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhivQYxCzxw
    One thing clear in that video is that 99% of bad AI behavior comes from the fact that the player is invisible. How would you react to an invisible enemy and more so, how would you code that behavior into a machine who has no intuition and other human skills?

    BF3 AI failure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg70qgZcg4I -player is not doing what he is supposed to do and the AI just runs behind a random car, and shoots to where the player should be (where the squad is I guess), totally careless about that guy running around with a knife and cutting everybody's throats. They don't even react when they are next to him.

    Point is simple, AI runs on computers not human brains and has to be coded and when the player exceeds the programmed behavior the AI will always fail. BF3 fails far harder on this example than the other one in Crysis. A least in the Crysis example you were hidden.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012
  2. pantherx12

    pantherx12 New Member

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    The only time I've been impressed by A.I in a game was in F.E.A.R 2 I think, on the higher difficulty settings the A.I would do some pretty crafty things.

    One example is nearly an entire squad was shooting at me in bursts pinning me down, and then one guy sprinted past when I was in cover and snuck up and ganked me when I finally was able to fire back at the other guys.

    I was actually shocked and impressed XD
     
  3. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

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    To me the biggest leap in enemy AI was with Half-Life 1, where they'd try sort of ambusing you, threw grenades if you were in cover (common nowadays) and run if you threw them one and my favorite which was when they could not run from your grenade, you'd hear something like "Oooh shit".

    FEAR 1 also had some very nice improvements. After that there's been very little improvement in behavioral AI. Pathfinding and cover and other minor things have improved tho, but at least to me, it's behavioral AI the most lacking and the one thing I miss in every new game. From what I remember, Crysis is the only one where they at least tried to depart from the silly scripted shit.
     
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  4. erixx

    erixx

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    HL1! Yeeees! True!!! /clapclapclap/
     
  5. Morgoth

    Morgoth

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    now when i look back at crysis 1 i see it as a pile of crap :)
     
  6. Kwod New Member

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    On what basis?
     
  7. pantherx12

    pantherx12 New Member

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    Really?

    With a bit of tweaking I still think it looks better than Crysis 2 and lots of other modern games.

    The engine is mad powerful ( just not multicore optimised which is a shame for the physics side of things)
     
  8. 1Kurgan1

    1Kurgan1 The Knife in your Back

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    I don't care to respond to the previous long post, but it is a good thing you made this one, because it lists the perfect example... FEAR 1. That game is the one FPS that stands out to me and the big leap in AI, even now just comparing it to current titles it's still impressive. And thats the type of AI that I would like to see, ones that make cover, call for help, retreat, and flank.
     
  9. pantherx12

    pantherx12 New Member

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    That was definitely my favourite part about combat in Fear, if you were straight up wrecking the place with no trouble they would just panic and run away :laugh:
     
  10. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

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    And Crysis did all of that, plus many other things like go searching for you, spreading out as they do so, 1-2 people branching out to other posible areas and more, much more.

    For instance, in FEAR you could not become invisible, so there was no need to code AI behavior for the posible outcomes. What you explained only happens if they spotted you outside the base and you then dissapeared, and even then 9 out of 10 times, not every soldier will go after you, and most times the will spread out, so if that happened, either 1) you were extremely lucky or 2) you really really worked for it. And later on the room, that only happens if every kill was counting as an "sneak kill" or they would have first tried to toss in a few grenades. As a matter of fact, I found Crysis AI to be extremely trigger happy as soon as they would glimpse me for just half a second and they would either spray the area or toss in a grenade at the first sign of movement*. If there's something wrong with the AI I'd say that's it because I don't think any soldier from any army would throw a grenade simply because they glimpsed something with their peripheral view.

    What you described is far from the norm, it's just an exploit you were able to take advantage from, period.

    Like I said, more options for the AI makes room for more exploits from the player, but that's it. I have plyed Crysis 3 times, playing with very different styles each time and never once did I come up with a quirk that I wouldn't find in any other game and certainly didn't find a situation like you describe (although I can understand it happenning in some very very specific conditions). 90% of games are far worse in fact, they are nothing but scripted crap, so saying that Crysis AI sucks is completely false, it's way way above the average.

    One last question, you didn't play on easy right? Because that could explain a lot.

    * And there's no need to say that right after that happens, one soldier will run inside the base and call in for reinforcements, either from the base itself, or from Humvees patroling some other area or from an helicopter if there's a base in the "map".
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  11. Morgoth

    Morgoth

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    only thing i get on crysis 1 is crash crash crash crash crash
     
  12. PopcornMachine

    PopcornMachine

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    Beat me to it. Really adds to experience to have all that processing for a full screen of ocean that the user only sees 10% of.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  13. D4S4

    D4S4

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    me too and i find this saddening.
     
  14. 1Kurgan1

    1Kurgan1 The Knife in your Back

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    I don't remember them ever getting wounded and trying to run away and get help, not ever. Thats a massive difference, they stay till they die. And no, I did not use stealth to cause the incident I mentioned earlier (and I was not spotted outside a base, I was in the base, it's where I hid), so thats not the only way to cause that. I simply used line of sight, and moved away from my targets. They didn't sweep the area looking for me, they got in line and all came from one direction.

    The only kind of help I ever remember them getting is the simple kind of help any shooter has ever had. You make a sound or they see you, then some sort of magical alarm goes off in all of their heads and most of them now know your location.

    And if you buy that "difficulty makes enemies smarter" then I laugh. I want to see one game ever that actually has scaling AI. Crysis they sure don't, they just detect you far easier, shoot far more accurate, react almost instantly, and speak Korean. Thats like saying Need for Speed has good AI because the computer car will always catch you (even if they have a slower car) if your lead is too large. The enemies don't gain any more tactical abilities, they just gain hawk hearing and magical accuracy, Easy has nothing to do with it, it wouldn't have changed anything. Granted I never play on Easy, so most likely was one of the medium difficulties.

    So saying that Crysis AI sucking is false, is just your opinion here, not a fact. And I'm not saying it's just the games fault, but that doesn't make it any less true. It's hard to make an open game with intelligent A"I, plain and simple. FEAR has the bonus that the levels are small, so they most likely have predetermined flanking routes. If they attack you from route 3 and you injure them, they now roll a dice and go down 1,2, or 4.
     
  15. tacosRcool

    tacosRcool

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    I hate to say it, Crysis 2 looks better than the first game ONLY with DX11 and the high res texture pack. Compared to when they just released, Crysis looks better.
    I am a bit disappointed with the series but i will pick the third one up when its like ~$9 , just like when i bought Crysis 2. Really i just want it to hurt my computer and really nothing more.
     
  16. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

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    You know what. Try to repeat that and post a video. I already posted a video that contradicts completely all of your claims and I have played the game enough times that I know that does not happen often, which would be rquired to say that it sucks. The AI does not suck. It's not an opinion, when it's equal or better than 90% of games. Saying that it sucks is an opinion, unless it's proved with more than just one situation that happened one day while I was playing and bla bla. It requires that the same situation is at least repeatable, so the burden of proving that it sucks is on you, so do it.

    So for example, they never ever used a flare to ask for help. Never? :rolleyes: You didn't play the same game as everybody else. Did you even actually play Crysis?

    They never scream something out loud in Korean when they spotted you? Really? They would come magically hmm?

    When spotted in certain bases, an actual alarm didn't sound either? Only a "magical" one? :rolleyes:

    At this point you are just bashing the game for the sake of it or you simply didn't play Crysis, you played another game.

    BTW the AI does get dumber on easier levels on Crysis. And specifically their ability to "see" you is severely degraded and with that goes their "judgement" of the situation. They also probably "talk" to each other less in easy. So you probably played on easy or you didn't play the game. At this point I'm even more inclined to believe the latter.

    EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtt9gMnm_l4

    Theguy is playing on easy, you know that because they speak english instead of Korean. That's why it takes them so f**ing long to fire at him too.

    So they magically become aware of your presence or they are told by others? 1:38 "Enemy!!"

    2:00 "It's dead!" and runs away.

    Also in 1:20 2 soldiers retreating to a better position after 2 are killed.



    Also related to all games:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  17. Kwod New Member

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    I remember both Crysis and WH having good difficulty levels, but WH was faster paced.
     
  18. 1Kurgan1

    1Kurgan1 The Knife in your Back

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    You know what :laugh: Try and post a video of the game I'm talking about, not a standalone expansion. Seriously, don't get snippy then post a video to a completely different game. So no your video doesn't discount jack. Now if you are talking about your experiences with Warhead, I don't know, I own it, haven't ever played it (check post #22, I mentioned clearly what game my example was from). But hey, you want video examples? Here we go!

    Continues talking to a guy who just died in front of him


    Flaming Red Barrel? I should check it out!


    Enemies don't even attack him half the time. When they try they go to last known locations. Or they have the slowest reaction times known to man. In general, this video just cracks me up.


    You are basing your facts off of your gameplay, that alone makes it not fact, just like what I'm saying isn't fact either. It's opinion, and my opinion and experiences differ from yours, I hate to break that to you. I honestly don't need to prove anything to anyone, I just made some simple posts, and you disagree, such is life. I wasn't even going to respond, because you have a habit of making extremely long winded posts that I usually just don't read when I look in threads. But then you made a short one so I responded, and now here's another massive post telling someone they are wrong, so I'll greet it with my own creation I suppose. Either way, theres the proof you are looking for, of course that won't be good enough and X or Y excuses will negate them on your part, but I could careless.

    1) Asking for help is an old tactic in AI, I could care less about it, I'm more concerned about flanking and scouting tactics. Taking cover, retreating, and flanking are much more important.

    2) Boy thats a difficult one, I haven't seen enemies yell when they spot me since Medal of Honor 1 (1999), and it might even be in shooters before that. Thats some sweet AI right there, I judge all my games based on a key phrase being uttered when they spotted me.

    3) Certain. I like how you mock me right after using a massively important keyword, then completely disregard it. Either way, we'll leave this one at that.

    4) Yes, I am just bashing this game, it's what I'm known for on these forums, I just bash the crap out of games. I'm actually usually the person over zealously defending them, look at the DNF thread or the Diablo 3 thread for some examples.

    Smarter isn't better eye sight. If I have bad vision and get contacts it doesn't mean I'm a smarter person. They are, and now here's a big word for you, brace yourself... handicapped, by default. They most likely have a small vision cone. Making that vision cone a realistic size on harder difficulties will make the game harder, because the enemies can actually see you. But no that doesn't make them any smarter. If they had a 360 vision cone would that make them geniuses? No, just cheaty AI.

    Also great call at 2min, who even says he's dead? The guy he just killed? (dead guy talking?) Or did the guy who was running call him dead because his friend died? (guess he might have trouble distinguishing targets, you know, being trained for combat and all that must be hard).

    We won't even go over another statement that starts with "probably", thats just all guessing. The problem here is you seem to think that cone of vision and accuracy are the only elements of smarter AI. Those are just sensory, and sensory is not my problem here, sluggish reactions, bad tactics, those are my problems. But rather than actually reading my posts and understanding that, you attempt to bash and tell me I haven't played the game. I don't mind discussing and explaining if you didn't understand (which you clearly don't). But good AI is determined by the tactics they use, not being blind folded vs open sight.

    Oh and the soldiers in Crysis don't have headsets or even walkies (unless you can spot one?) :toast:
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. HammerON

    HammerON The Watchful Moderator Staff Member

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    I will buy Crysis 3 just because I loved the first one and was somewhat entertained by Crysis 2. The storyline, AI, etc... may not be the best, but I find it still fun to play. But that is just me:)

    Edit: Forgot about Crysis Warhead... It was alright. It all started with Far Cry for me -- Loved that game:toast:
     
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  20. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

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    First of all and this invalidates anything you think you have demostrated... those videos are from the DEMO, posted at least 2 weeks before the actual game launched.


    And funny funny funny. I'm basing it on my experience but you are not, right? You are the only holder of truth, because even only your videos (which are not from retail product and are showing bugs that were later fixed) need taken into account.

    But besides that, oh yeah, post a link to a known bug. Then post a link which only shows that they are slow, because it's on easy difficulty and their ability to detect you is hampered as in needing 2 seconds to detect you (did I say it was about 360ª vision and the other stupid things you mentioned? now concluding that, that's really stupid). So since one and every of your issues are hapenning on easy and on a demo. That's it. In those videos the player is far from novice, and it's been years since easy and normal gaming modes are tailored for people who have never ever played an FPS and I even think Crysis stated so right there in the selection screen. It's your fault if you are dumb enough not to pick the dificulty level that is best suited to you.

    And the thing at min 2... it's said twice in one of your videos, twice and both times the guy that is still ALIVE runs. But yeah, I guess it's the dead guy, the one who yiells "It's dead!" and runs. :shadedshu

    * And yes for fps gamers it is utterly stupid, but there's many people who need some slack. For example my uncle who loves playing FPS (but can only play when he comes home), needs a whole 3 seconds just to find the jump or recharge button (needless to say changing modes in Crysis is not something he does faster). He's not handicapped, he's just kind of from another era, so he's not used to a computer and he finds it difficult to use so many buttons at once, so he needs his time. Easy modes give him this precious time that seems like an eternity to us. He's not alone with his suffering and I don't think it's bad for developers to include difficult settings for people like him. They like playing as much as we do. And they enjoy playing with the powers of nanosuit as much as we do, but they can't cloak, then switch to speed, then strength in half a second as we do and that's why the AI is so slow. And the bugs happen, because of the lag in detection. On Delta difficulty I never saw such things.
    And then you base your claims on the detection lag in the easy modes, instead of whatching the video I posted in which you can clearly clearly see the tactics being used. Which are NOT common to 99% of other games and are unique to Crysis. You pretend that I'm basing my claims on eyesight instead of tactics and you accuse me of not reading, when it's clearly clearly YOU who has not read ANITHING I posted apparently. I exclusively talked about tactics and I later said that you need to wait for those tactics to happen if you play on easy. But Oh Lord it's easy to skip my posts and then invoke some moral superiority you think you have, because apparently you defended DNF and Diablo 3. Really?


    That was simply a joke, because of how people (not only you) often make that comment that the AI simply learns of your location. As if the most simple communication systems were out of reach for the military.

    Especifically about Crysis tho, it's somewhere in the near future, they use weapons that are not yet in service that I'm aware off, there's a nanosuit that allows you to be invisible, makes you almost invulnerable against bullets and explosions and gives you superhuman strenght and speed and there's some ultra advanced VTOLs, oh and aliens, but somehow in that universe they missed in-ear comunnication, clip on microphones or inductive neckloops and many many other tech that is used right NOW?

    EDIT: And BTW on the picture you posted, what is it what he has on the helmet. Could it be a communication device? I think I see an antenna sticking out. But I'm just saying, I know most soldiers in Crysis don't have helmets. I'm not debating that aspect of games with you, I'm just saying that it typically makes sense to me to assume there's some kind of comunication between soldiers in games. Unless they are depicting old wars from low-tech eras.

    EDIT2: Sorry I forgot (or unconsciously didn't want) to respond to 1, 2 and 3 of your points. YOU said they would magically become aware of you, with no other "AI feature" involved. I don't care how old or for how long these "tactics" or "features exist", I was not the one ignoring them. If they scream out loud "It's here", "enemy!" sometimes "I got the coward" and some other things when they spot you, I don't know what to tell you, in my world we are not deaf and we would react to that, even setting the alarm ON if I happen to be close to the switch. I can easily hear people scream from 250++ m away, when outside of city and I don't consider myself a super human for being able to do so.
     
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  21. 1Kurgan1

    1Kurgan1 The Knife in your Back

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    Wrong again, does seem those videos were from before releasing. but remember my story about them single filing into one building, I just so happened to find a video of exactly that, from after release, so there you go buddy, exactly what I was talking about (too bad it has no sound though, but has some other good AI mistakes). I found a few others from after release as well, but that one shows exactly what I'm talking about, so no need to go beyond that with clutter.

    I'm not sure if english isn't your main language or you are just raging so hard you forgot how to type, a lot of these paragraphs I seriously can barely understand, but I'll do my best to respond.

    I'm not sure what known bug you are talking about. I do see that sluggish reaction is built into the difficulty, another bad handicap to make it seem like increasing difficulty makes them smarter, instead it just brings them up to par (but see I am saying I see your point here, do you see how this works, or are you never wrong?). As far as 360 degree vision, that was an extreme example to get my point across, and you once again missed it so I'll say it plain as day just for you. An enemy going from a blind persons field of vision to a normal persons is not an AI increase, that's removal of a handicap that shouldn't be there. Then people say "oh wow they're smarter now!". No they aren't they just aren't freaking blind now (because you know how many blind people military's put on guard duty :laugh:).

    While yes those videos were from the demo, some of that did make it through to the final product. My only complaint that had to deal with the difficulty selection that I thought wasn't attributed to that was reaction time, and I have barely mentioned that, I keep hammering tactics tactics tactics, and the video from after release shows exactly what I'm talking about (yet you haven't covered tactics once except the time when you linked a video from the wrong game, so bravo on that one).

    I do agree everyone should be allowed in on the fun. But it's not only Easy that has the handicapped AI, it goes all the way up the difficulty chain, and that I do see as the problem. Playing on the normal setting shouldn't have handicapped field of view and sluggish reaction times on NPC's, almost forces you into Delta which has a lot of extra attributes (energy and health regen that are super low) which go beyond AI that make it tough.

    One video you posted was from Warhead (already went over that). The 2nd video, which I already watched, I figure we can delve into more since you love using that as an example so much. First problem, he kills an enemy and wounds others, they don't call out being injured, they don't even retreat to better ground when they know exactly which direction and approximately how close the enemy is. A smart enemy would have ran straight backwards and used that rock for cover. Instead they both start stepping right out onto the wide open path with no cover at all (sound like great AI right there huh?). Now onto that sweet "it's dead" call out group. When he grabs that 1st guy, the other guy is facing him, watching him grab that soldier. Then he turns and starts to run, then someone calls out "it's dead" and he continues running. He seen the player, yet never turned back to fight him (great AI). Then at the 4:20 marker he gets in another fire fight, he retreats behind a tree, and they just stand out in the open wasting ammo more. He peeks out from behind the tree, and look they havent found any cover or anything, just standing there in the wide open (perfect AI once again, this must have been what was mentioned earlier about FEAR, you know, actually finding cover). then the dude with thee shotgun standing right behind him screaming, don't even think he was aiming at him, looks like he was screaming and firing into the tree (unless the recoil kicked him around circular, you know because military training wouldn't help him know how to control recoil). You know, I'm really glad you wanted me to critique the AI in that video, because it's just horrible (and that goes beyond the sluggish decision making) :laugh:

    As far as moral superiority? Seriously, I wasn't the one who brought videos into this discussion. You know, because you are the only one who has played Crysis, and if anyone else has and has experienced different than you, they are wrong, yep I'm the one acting superior here (what a joke). :laugh:

    Oh and the only tactics you have talked about are being spotted, and alarms, general AI tactics that would be impossible to make a FPS without (if any enemy doesn't call for help who are you going to fight?) So no you haven't really spoken about tactics (flanking routes and such), you just mentioned being spotted and posted a video unrelated to Crysis 1, and if I didn't read those, then how the heck did I respond to them with a numbering scheme in my previous post... Nice try on turning the "not reading posts" back on me.

    And I could careless about stuff thats already implemented in games since the originators of that genre existed. Thats a given, your like a used car salesman that likes to mention the car has a transmission (I sure hope it does!). I'm not here to talk about what features Crysis has that every other FPS in existence has, I don't really care to make the list, and drag this out. A simple discussion of what it lacks in enemy AI is what I've been talking about this whole time.

    /wall of text. I seriously hate making posts like this simply because someone says their opinion/experiences are absolute fact.
     
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  22. pantherx12

    pantherx12 New Member

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    Just to clarify a lot of games have scaling A.I.

    First time I played Stalker I played on easy ( to get used to the damage system, wasn't used to having to use bandages, anti radiation medicine etc) and I was REALLY disappointed by the AI, I could literally hide behind a bush and they would forget I was there.

    Then I found out about scaling A.I bumped up the difficulty to high and not only were people trying to flank me and rush me and use more tactics, everything was a lot more mobile.


    The snorks or what ever the hell they are called rather then making a mad dash in a straight line for me would try and dodge my bullets and dive side to side whilst coming at me.

    Made the game about a bajillion times more enjoyable.

    I also found the same would happen in Crysis, Easy was just fucking awful, Hard would make all kinds of fun things happening.

    I remember the A.I CONSTANTLY using the jungle to hide from me the pesky little shites would also run into leaf cover so I'd chase them and just drop a grenade. Crafty!
     
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  23. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

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    1) English is not fisrt language. It's obvious and I think it's a well known fact here on TPU.

    2) I don't know why you insist on bringing up the blind not blind shit. I've never spoken about that and I never claimed "seeing" more means the AI is smarter. However Crysis is a stealth oroented game and as such it has no other option as to scale those things. I already explained how that impacts the low levels of difficulty and it's not exclusive to Crysis. If the stealth option has to be there for everyone (i.e my uncle too) there must be a mechanism to allow these people to be stealthy. That includes making the enemies slower or dumber if that is the word that you prefer.

    That does not exclude the fact that enemies in Crysis retreat, take cover, ask for help, search for you in complicated paterns and spreading out from last seen location (just one example of the many behaviors) and many many other things that Crysis AI DOES and you claim it doesn't. They do it and I have posted videos that shows them doing that.

    And regarding retreating and taking cover. Yeah it's soooo smart to give the back to the enemy. They are retreating while looking at you and with their weapons ready to attack.

    3) Regarding the "he's dead" thing. yeah please tell me another fantasy tale. What happens is clear, the player kills one enemy. The other one sees that and screams in panic "he's dead" and runs away. But ey your fantasies about dead people talking are fun and I find it funny when you pretend it's any other "someone" who says it besides the freaked out enemy.

    4) I only mentioned AI "features" that are supposed to be there, because YOU claimed they didn't exist in the game in the first place. Like saying that the only reason they come after you is because of some magical power. Yeah sure, or because they scream out loud or one of them runs into the base and comes with more, or runs into the base and throws a flare up to the sky... you're being ridiculous in trying to find a point to be made in this regards. I never said that is a sign of good AI. But your pretension that they did not exist in the game certainly is NOT a sign of bad AI, because those features DO exist in the game.

    5) And same as 4) goes for nearly all the other features you want in a game. Crysis has them, it just takes longer for enemies to enforce them, especially on lower difficulty levels, because Crysis is mostly a stealth game. Did you ever played Metal gear solid? Splinter Cell? Sneaking in Elder Scrolls games Fallout 3? Do they have something in common regarding stealth and detection? Do they have something in common with Crysis detection and early behavior? You pretend it's bad coding (for those games too?) I've been telling you it's coded like that, because even low skill players have the right to play those games "stealthy" if that's what they want to do and their lower skills in being fast simply being able to move around shouldn't get in their way.
     
  24. 1Kurgan1

    1Kurgan1 The Knife in your Back

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    1) I don't remember every person on TPU, or their location, I go by the information that you put out, and my left retina is located in an English speaking nation.

    2)
    If you haven't spoke a word about it, then what exactly is that? Your specific example of dumb AI followed by reduced vision, sure seems like you were claiming smarter AI by sight. And stealth in it's is the option to be stealthy, thats why it's called stealth... Either way, not discussing that anyways.

    And no you haven't posted videos of them retreating and taking cover. You have posted 2 videos, one of them from Warhead (thats a different game) and one of them I just tore apart in my previous post, where all of the enemies stayed in their current position and stood in the wide open. Unless I'm missing (and I'm going to use this word here just for you) a "magical" 3rd video. And yes you can retreat as a tactic, or is it best when you watch your enemy take cover to just stand there with your thumb up your ass and wait for them to peek back out at you (pretty sweet tactic, using cover to you know, not die is always a bad idea)?

    3) I thought the enemy was yelling that the player was dead. Either way, he just watched the guy get picked up and thrown, it's pretty obvious where the enemy is located, he started running before his buddy was even dead. Then he turned his back on the enemy (something you just made fun of, pretty sweet AI huh?).

    4) A flare into the sky or an alarm going off won't give everyone exact coords on you. I only mentioned all of this in my first post anyways and haven't held that strong on this subject, and don't have a super strong opinion on it anyways, it was mostly just me getting into a rant.

    5) I could careless about stealth, haven't mentioned it once. And everything I'm trying to link doesn't have stealth, so please stop mentioning it. Look at the video I just posted about the horrible AI jumping on the turret. That guy is never stealthed, they never go looking for him, they don't even care about the pile of dead bodies on the turret. They just run to it, jump on and die, then next in line (holy crap thats like my single file line story from one of my first posts, thats crazy isn't it, sounds like I never played the game and was spewing bs this whole time huh?) And you didn't even bother to address that video, it shows exactly what you said doesn't happen, this is what the whole argument started about, so please, address it.
     
  25. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

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    Nice try. In my next post I explained what I meant with that. Not the best election of words in that first post, OK.

    So, the issue is not their sight, but on their response time to the sighting. Quite a different thing.

    Warhead has exacty the same AI, but if you think that's a card you can play, ok. No one's going to take it seriously tho.

    And when you are in the middle of nothing (no cover closer than 1-2 m from you) and the enemy is aiming right at you. Yes retreating/running away or to cover is a BAD idea. You're dead before your first foot leaves the ground.

    And that's the matter. In every of those situations, they are being caught off guard. In some the player is cloaked. In another one it uses superhuman speed and in others none of that, but they are caught offguard regardless, because again, Crysis is a stealth game, an there's a mechanism to delay/control the detection, which becomes slow and dumb in easier difficulties, which results in "skilled" players caughing the AI off-guard more often. And once in that situation Crytek took the time to code in several reaction, like being shocked so they do nothing. I'd like to see you if a 2m guy in that outfit aproached you at 150 km/h, and lifted your 75+ kg partner with just one hand (and the arm fully extended as in: "fuck you Archimedes"). I'd like to see what would you do. 99% of people would run and leave the island in less than you can say fuck, the rest would get shocked. But that wouldn't make a fun game isn't it? Alternatively, sometimes they spray the whole clip at you or where you were. They also sometimes actually attack you, you know. Etc. Crytek took the time to code in many many behaviors and that makes the AI good regardless of what you think.

    Yes he is running in panic. Which is stupid, but can happen if a 2 m guy on a nanosuit simply stands in front of you. I don't make fun of the reaction of running away as a "tactic" I make fun of the fact you think it's the only "real" or valid tactic.

    You can't talk about Crysis without caring about stealth. Period.

    And again show me a game where enemies don't do that please... you can't bash a game based on something that is the norm. Did you watch the BF3 video I posted, it happens a very similar yet worse thing. They are games! But none of them can be sub-par if all of them have the same issue. i could argue that a card (lol I meant car, how many times do we say card that I failed to spell car twice?) sucks if it's not able to run at 500 Km/h, but my argument would never hold any water, because by that definition, every card would suck. And somthing just cannot suck unless something is several times better. And that's not the case.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012

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