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Buy cheap or Future-Proof?

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Wai_Wai, Jul 11, 2008.

  1. ChromeDome

    ChromeDome New Member

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    wow thanks for the tip i'm so happy i could e kiss you :p

    so here is my new power supply:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004

    :rockout:


    i don't know much about them and saw in my search Rosewill was the rock bottom cheapest one with the best reviews. this one is somewhat more expensive...but still within my sub $100 price limit. even without rebate

    looks like a good one
     
  2. calvary1980

    calvary1980 New Member

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    550VX is built by Channel Well. it has Chemicon caps the 450VX even though it's built by Seasonic uses a Hitachi. good choice :)

    - Christine
     
  3. Paulieg

    Paulieg The Mad Moderator Staff Member

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    I have to agree with Christine here. Corsair psu's can't be beat for the price, and do not buy a Rosewell psu.
     
  4. Wai_Wai New Member

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    Not necessary. PSU suppliers are more than happy because more users largely over-estimate their needs and buy a much higher watt PSU so they feel safer. And PSU suppliers can earn much more money. I heard that the production cost of even a quality PSU is low so they earn a lot by selling dear PSU. (perhaps 80%-90% margin... I dunno...)

    There are quite many bad brands. So it's good to pick your choice from good brands. If you don't buy high-watt PSU, you can save much money and get a PSU from a decent brand.

    List of good and bad brands:
    http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/101922.aspx
    http://forums.overclockersclub.com/index.php?showtopic=63579

    To go further, some brands just get their PSUs from the OEMs. If you can identify what PSUs are produced by good OEMs, you may get a cheaper PSU with the same quality from another brand. (You know, a good brand sometimes charge more premium because people know they are reputable :D):

    WHO REALLY MAKES THAT POWER SUPPLY?
    http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page5.html
    (Please scroll down until you see that section)

    Don't just look for total watt. Actually it's much less important. Together with the fact that different manufacturers use different methodologies to calculate the total watt, it makes the values non-comparable!
    Efficiency is one of the factors you should pay attention. However different manufacturers use different methodologies so it's also non-comparable!
    You should look at the Amps and Watts supplied for each rail. +12V is the most important in the current computer world.

    I believe any modern PSU will have all types of cables we want. Please confirm whether I'm right on this.

    PSU is complicated and not many sites test them right.

    Why 99% of Power Supply Reviews Are Wrong?
    http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/410

    Some good PSU Reviews
    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/psu-methodology_11.html
    http://www.silentpcreview.com/article148-page1.html
    http://www.jonnyguru.com/

    Hope this helps. :)
     
    ChromeDome says thanks.
  5. Wai_Wai New Member

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  6. Wai_Wai New Member

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    <deleted>
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  7. rangerone766

    rangerone766

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  8. calvary1980

    calvary1980 New Member

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    I would take the 550VX over the Silencer 610 anyday.

    - Christine
     
  9. [I.R.A]_FBi

    [I.R.A]_FBi New Member

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    buy cheap .. there are soem new pentiums on the way, cop one ...
     
  10. newconroer

    newconroer

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    Futureproof is only really relevant when architecture changes.

    Single core to Dual core would be an example, and from Dual core to native Quad core, i.e. Intel Nehalem would be another. Also consider that the legacy 'front side bus' architecture of Intel motherboards will cease to exist with the Nehalems and such motherboards will be dependant upon DDR3 memory.

    Thus any processesors/motherboard/ram upgrade now, would only be suitable, if it was very cheap and at the same time, considerably better than your current components.

    Having said that, buying a "Nehalem" package, would be considered proper 'future proofing.'

    On the GPU front, nothing about architecture has really changed much in the last several years. The G80 from Nvidia was the closest we came; and while the GT200 is considerably more powerful, it's still built around the same technology - the same of which can be said for ATi's latest offering.

    Things like "Ray Tracing" when fully implemented and functional, and/or onboard physics processors, would mostly likely be the next architectural jump. However, physics is already available through Nvidia at the present time; ATi will most likely follow suit in some form or another, and the same can be said for ray tracing(or something similar). When the latter might happen, with the kinks ironed out, is pure speculation at this point, which leads me to suggest that any top end GPU on the market currently, will survive another year or more.


    Power supply units have had their base design changed as well in the past several years. The introduction of the gimmicky dual or multi rail concept has bewildered a lot of consumers, though with the introduction of more and more power hungry graphics cards, the need for high amperage single 12v rails has become apparent, and people are finally and fortunatley starting to catch on. However, this is about the only real architectural difference from power supplies that we've seen. The introduction of PCI Express lines is also of interest. On that note, expect to see power supplies coming equipped with more 6pin and 8pin express lines as standard.

    For single card solutions, and some SLI/CrossFire, a 800-1000 watt, single 12v rail (80AMP) or more PSU of reputable name (such as Silverstone), would last you several years, and are very affordable.


    Monitors are a bit tricky, because there is so much marketing nonsense that manufacturers use to pull the wool over people's eyes. Though, there's plenty of truth about the subject if you're willing to research it. Currently between the three main panel types, TN film, PVA/S-PVA and ISPS(listed under different names sometimes), the PVA is a common favorite amongst gamers, and lower budget graphic designers/multi-media users. Generally speaking, PVA is only found on 24" or higher size monitors. This isn't always the case, yet it's close enough. Once you reach 30" and larger, you run into the ISPS, though you pay quite a premium, and for gaming it's a negligible/marginal increase in quality. Also keep in mind that the architecture of TN film might actually change come the end of 08 or as late as mid 09. The backlighting LED and various variables have undergone quite a change in some of the manufacturer's labs. Iiyama and Belinea have been working on some pretty wild advancements. The prediction is that the new line of TN film will have better quality than PVA panels, and possibly surpass that of current ISPS; whilst still retaining a lower price point than PVA or ISPS.

    Needless to say, if you just want decent contrast, colour and 'head on' (gamers always facing the screen from the front...not the side..) viewing angle(s), then a TN film would be totally suitable; leaving the question really down to what size you want. However if you do go 24" or bigger, be on the lookout for a cheap PVA panel anyways. If you find one for $50 more than a 24" TN film, get the PVA, otherwise don't stress it.


    Harddisks are generally about size/capacity for most consumers, although buffer size, read/seek latency, rpms and other minor features, are something to consider. At this point, and probably for a decent while, SATA II speeds, 8-14 ms seek time, 8-16mb buffer and 100gig + capacity will be the norm and are perfectly acceptable even in a 'ultimate gaming' machine.



    Nehalem will be out in several months, so save up now and put your money towards that. You will pay the 'new market price premium' obviously, yet it won't leave you with that feeling of 'oh dammit, I just bought a new component and it's already 'outdated,' what a waste of money!'

    Nehalem won't be outdated for quite a long time. You will be 'future proofing.'
     
    Wai_Wai says thanks.
  11. Wai_Wai New Member

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    Do you think if it's possible to keep DDR2 and use it for the new Nehalem/AM3 motherboard?
    I'm planning to buy some DDR2 RAM.
    My choice:
    - 2GB + 1GB
    - 1GB + 1GB + 1GB
    - 2GB + 2GB

    My operating system is Windows XP Pro.


    When it is first released, the price should be much higher.
    Plus the Nehalem motherboard can die out when other new technology comes out.

    Another approach is to buy cheap. Buy a cheap motherboard. Then upgrade your motherboard at a cheap price after a few years.

    But the slot has changed.
    Now all cards are PCI-Express. It was AGP in the past.
    Old cards are forced to be thrown away. :(

    Multiple rail is introduced due to the specifications recommended by Intel in the past. Intel did it for safety issues. There was no power-hungry graphic card at that time.

    On the other hand, we can save more bucks if we go for less powerful PSU, especially when you don't need such a powerful PSU.

    If new technology will kill the PSU anyway (most telling me it's safest to avoid adapters due to uncertainty) after a few years you upgrade again, there's no point buying 800-1000W, single +12V rail now when your system only needs 300W at the worst scenario.


    What marketing nonsense are you taking about?
    Response time? Brightness? Contrast? DPI? Widescreen?


    I once heard a gamer suggesting CRT monitor for gaming. The graphics looks less sharp and blurry if you run the game at non-native resolution in LCD monitors. Sometimes you have to lower the resolution because your card can't run smoothly at high resolution.


    I read that the biggest bottlenecks is hard disk. Even though SATAII is a much faster interface, but hard disk can't take advantage of this due to bottlenecks.

    LOL. It happens all the time in the computer world. :laugh:
    When you buy the component, it is going to be outdated in short period.
     
  12. ChromeDome

    ChromeDome New Member

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    no it wasn't too long at all and very helpful

    i ordered the 550VX earlier, however. so i'm going to stick with that. its a good unit and i need all the SATA connectors it has. i have four components that will be needing the SATA connectors (second HD coming and i have a DVD drive unplugged as it is) and after visiting the manufacturer website i'm very comfortable with the purchase

    thanks for your input though it was very informative and i shall be referring to the links you posted. and thanks everyone who helped with my PS questions :)
     
  13. zithe

    zithe

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    This should fit your needs at a good price:
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817101034
    These are good. I'm using a system with one right now.

    +3.3V@28A,+5V@54A,+12V@30A,-12V@1A,+5VSB@2.5A

    With some molex - PCIe adapters you could pull crossfire with it. (Even though it's not meant for it)

    It also has a mail in rebate. It's had it for ages now. I got mine on June 2nd and sent out the mail in rebate around the 20th. Of course, I'm going to wait a while since I dawdled too much.

    Edit: Didn't notice you already bought one. XD
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  14. Wai_Wai New Member

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    That Antec PSU doesn't have many SATA connectors. However you can buy adapters to convert 4-pin peripheral connectors into SATA connectors. The only problem is missing +3.3V but none of the drives use it so far.

    PS: Thanks for your first "thanks" although I expect you should thank both of my posts. :pimp: (joking)
     
  15. EastCoasthandle

    EastCoasthandle New Member

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    There are a couple of other things you need to know about a PSU:
    -You want a PSU to perform at optimum efficient at temps higher then 30C. Brands like Corsair, PCP&C, etc have a tendency to use components that can tolerate heat better.

    -You want to look at a PSU's amperage as well as voltage. Some models of video cards, etc require that you have a PSU that can provide a certain amperage per rail.

    -You want a PSU that offers more then what you need. Never get the bare minimum PSU. Research your PSU's efficiency rating and try to gauge the power requirements of your PC. There are a few website that offer this service.

    -IMHO get a single rail PSU. If you decide on a multi-rail PSU (which can protect your PC a little better) get one that offers at least 18 amps per rail (I would prefer 20 amps if possible).

    There are a few others examples that I cannot think of at the moment but that should get your started.

    The Brands worth considering are but not limited to:
    Corsair
    PC Power and Cooling
    Seasonic
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  16. Wai_Wai New Member

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    That's interesting. How come a PSU will perform at optimum efficient at temps **higher than** 30C? I believe the PSU is working better at lower temp than at higher temp.
     
  17. zithe

    zithe

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    I think he means one would want a PSU that can run well in a large range of temperatures.
     

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