Compute4Cash: it's a trap or not?

theubersmurf · Feb 17, 2011

garyinhere said:
Do you even care what these wu's are doing? You could be helping some shady shit here and you don't know.

For example, helping crack encryption used by large user base sites or similar to harvest personal data (say, Amazon, facebook).

Arctucas · Feb 17, 2011

Who knows?

It may be the Chinese government hacking the Pentagon communication ciphers.

BlueMatt · Feb 17, 2011

The exe matches that of pocblm, and is clearly for bitcoin. My point is simply that one can easily cut out the middle man and make 2x what he is offering. Also, the following is a canned response put together by the people in #bitcoin-otc on freenode:

Compute4cash is actually using your gpu power to make bitcoins (http://bitcoin.org), and then exchanging them for about twice as much cash as he pays you. Bitcoin is an online currency which you can exchange for cash, services, and other goods. The exchange rate is currently at about 1 USD per bitcoin. If you chose to do this on your own, rather than through the compute4cash middleman, you will make more than double the money.

compute4cash is being ambiguous to the point of dishonesty, in telling you that this is used for "data compression for the financial sector".

compute4cash is using an open-source miner called Poclbm (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OpenCL_miner). At current difficulty and bitcoin price levels, the guy is making >50% profit on this. Any of you who are participating in the compute4cash pool, would do better on your own, using a free open source gpu miner. where better == about twice as much return.

I encourage you all to learn about bitcoin and cut out the middleman.

here are some links you should visit if you are interested in making money with bitcoin
http://www.bitcoin.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin
http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/02/10/189246/Online-Only-Currency-BitCoin-Reaches-Dollar-Parity

Arctucas · Feb 17, 2011

Heh...busted!

Easy Rhino · Feb 17, 2011

bitcoining is shady business. essentially a bunch of individuals or small groups of people form a small company and partake in bitcoining. to make bitcoins they then create programs like comput4cash which pays out other people a small portion in return for compute cycles that go into a massive computing farm which does various jobs paid for by other companies.

so essentially if you take part in this program your computing cycles could be going to all sorts of nefarious enterprises and you would never know. i hope that $600 - electric bills is worth it :laugh:

BlueMatt · Feb 17, 2011

Easy Rhino said:
bitcoining is shady business. essentially a bunch of individuals or small groups of people form a small company and partake in bitcoining. to make bitcoins they then create programs like comput4cash which pays out other people a small portion in return for compute cycles that go into a massive computing farm which does various jobs paid for by other companies.

so essentially if you take part in this program your computing cycles could be going to all sorts of nefarious enterprises and you would never know. i hope that $600 - electric bills is worth it

Not really, its an online currency, which gaining some steam with the recent dollar parity (see slashdot article). Its no shadier than what goes on on some of the online currency transfer sites.

Easy Rhino · Feb 17, 2011

BlueMatt said:
Not really, its an online currency, which gaining some steam with the recent dollar parity (see slashdot article). Its no shadier than what goes on on some of the online currency transfer sites.

it is not a recognized currency. it would be like me saying i have invested 10 million dollars in a pool of rocks in my backyard and if you install a program on your computer that benefits me you can have some of my precious rocks :rolleyes:

TheLaughingMan · Feb 17, 2011

LOL. This is getting better by the minute.

BlueMatt · Feb 17, 2011

Easy Rhino said:
it is not a recognized currency. it would be like me saying i have invested 10 million dollars in a pool of rocks in my backyard and if you install a program on your computer that benefits me you can have some of my precious rocks

True, but that doesn't make it shady. Yes it can be used for shady things, but AFAIK it isn't much currently. Note that any other online payment processor could be used just as easily to accomplish shady things.
Note also, that dollars have value because you can buy things with them, not because they are legal tender (though you can buy things with them because they are legal tender). There is a market for bitcoins, thus you can buy dollars, euros, and some random things with them the same as with any currency.

Easy Rhino · Feb 17, 2011

BlueMatt said:
True, but that doesn't make it shady. Yes it can be used for shady things, but AFAIK it isn't much currently. Note that any other online payment processor could be used just as easily to accomplish shady things.
Note also, that dollars have value because you can buy things with them, not because they are legal tender (though you can buy things with them because they are legal tender). There is a market for bitcoins, thus you can buy dollars, euros, and some random things with them the same as with any currency.

well we could definitely get into a conversation about fiat currency but im afraid we would derail the thread :laugh:

my point is, real people are actually investing actual dollars into this program believing that one day their early investment will pay off as the demand for bitcoins grows.

the actual bitcoin program does not pay out anything right now. compute4cash is paying people to compute for them on the basis that one day all those bitcoins they generate will be worth something. it is hysterical. one would think in the age of the internet this kind of scam would be much harder to pull off.

TheLaughingMan · Feb 17, 2011

BlueMatt said:
True, but that doesn't make it shady. Yes it can be used for shady things, but AFAIK it isn't much currently. Note that any other online payment processor could be used just as easily to accomplish shady things.
Note also, that dollars have value because you can buy things with them, not because they are legal tender (though you can buy things with them because they are legal tender). There is a market for bitcoins, thus you can buy dollars, euros, and some random things with them the same as with any currency.

No, dollars have value because it is a promissory note backed by the national gold reserve. Its kinda like say, "Hey gold is heavy and hard to carry around, so use this to represent your gold in various transactions". Fail.

I read through your "material" and it is just as vague and strange as Compute4Cash. It sounded like a weird mix of a pyramid scam and stock manipulation.

But please, do continue. :laugh:

HalfAHertz · Feb 17, 2011

It's not bit coin because you make ridiculously little bitcoins per compute time. I've heard stories that you need months for 1 bitcoin.
From the bitcoin site:

The total eventual circulation will be 21 million bitcoins. There will never be more coins than that. The coins are entering circulation gradually, at a steady pace over many years, to nodes supporting the network in proportion to the CPU time they contribute. With the current total CPU power on the network, most CPUs will usually take months between successfully generating 50 BTC.

So it will take you months to generate 50BTC or 50$? How is this the same thing?

BlueMatt · Feb 17, 2011

TheLaughingMan said:
No, dollars have value because it is a promissory note backed by the national gold reserve. Its kinda like say, "Hey gold is heavy and hard to carry around, so use this to represent your gold in various transactions". Fail.

I read through your "material" and it is just as vague and strange as Compute4Cash. It sounded like a weird mix of a pyramid scam and stock manipulation.

But please, do continue.

The USD used to be backed by gold, but they stopped that quite a while ago.

I understand that it does seem as bad as Compute4Cash. But at the end of the day, things only have value if there is a demand for them. Gold is only valuable because it has a limited supply and to many people it looks nice. The same with the USD, bitcoin or any other currency. (bitcoin being limited by technical measures, go read the source code)

I'm sorry you don't understand, and yes I realize it looks like a pyramid scam, and yes it could collapse at any point.

And yes, with cpu mining you get a tiny sum of bitcoins over time, gpu miners can make a bit more however. Also note that this rarity is part of what creates value (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_value_(economics) "must be in limited supply")

In any case I've made my point and whether you agree, disagree or think it is ridiculous I don't really care. In any case understand what Compute4Cash actually is and that you could make around twice as much if you cut out the middleman.

Arctucas · Feb 17, 2011

Easy Rhino · Feb 17, 2011

eh, bitcoins will never work as a real currency. if you have to spend money on a CPU to make bitcoins obviously something has gone completely wrong :laugh:

proceed at your own discretion...

praxeologist · Feb 17, 2011

TheLaughingMan said:
No, dollars have value because it is a promissory note backed by the national gold reserve.

This hasn't been true since before 1972. :shadedshu

This year we get "quantitative easing 2". The first one was more directly related to bank bailouts. Now the federal government is just monetizing its debt. This is what happens in those countries that get massive inflation. Since the US still is the world's reserve currency and the finals steps in debasing the currency, capital controls and such are just getting underway, the effects of these monetary policies have yet to be fully felt.

Dollars have value because they are backed by the force of government, not because the paper squares have much value otherwise. Bitcoin as a medium of exchange has value because some people realize where the US and other countries are headed and its features protect against that type of monetary policy, as well as all of the security and anonymity features.

Its kinda like say, "Hey gold is heavy and hard to carry around, so use this to represent your gold in various transactions". Fail.

I read through your "material" and it is just as vague and strange as Compute4Cash. It sounded like a weird mix of a pyramid scam and stock manipulation.

But please, do continue.

Not understanding something isn't a good argument against it. You apparently have been given links to the information.

HalfAHertz said:
It's not bit coin because you make ridiculously little bitcoins per compute time. I've heard stories that you need months for 1 bitcoin.

The days are over where you can realistically mine with CPUs. This wouldn't work very well long term if it was like, hey anyone can just turn on their computer and make money. Well, you really still can with any decent $200 or less graphics card. See here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison

pantherx12 · Feb 17, 2011

Found a opencl miner for bitcoin you can get up to 20x the performance .

Only problem is you have to set it up with command prompt which is beyond me.

By the way, considering ALL currency is a load of bullshit made up numbers I'm more than happy to get made up bullshit money from this program.

( see banks for why money is bullshit. or I can just tell you, banks have a license to loan more money then they have. This is print free monies! button for banks. And it's due to this banks collapsed, because eventually they lent out so much bullshit money that it far exceeded the amount of real money in the world ( something like 5% of money is real) so basically there wasn't enough money to pay "back" to the banks and even future earnings would not cover it. very simplified I know but heh!)

TheLaughingMan · Feb 17, 2011

BlueMatt said:
The USD used to be backed by gold, but they stopped that quite a while ago.

I understand that it does seem as bad as Compute4Cash. But at the end of the day, things only have value if there is a demand for them. Gold is only valuable because it has a limited supply and to many people it looks nice. The same with the USD, bitcoin or any other currency. (bitcoin being limited by technical measures, go read the source code)

I'm sorry you don't understand, and yes I realize it looks like a pyramid scam, and yes it could collapse at any point.

And yes, with cpu mining you get a tiny sum of bitcoins over time, gpu miners can make a bit more however. Also note that this rarity is part of what creates value (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_value_(economics) "must be in limited supply")

In any case I've made my point and whether you agree, disagree or think it is ridiculous I don't really care. In any case understand what Compute4Cash actually is and that you could make around twice as much if you cut out the middleman.

Wow. All I read was blah blah blah, bitcoins are cool cause we say they are......blah blah blah all you guys are stupid....blah blah blah I will stop posting now.

Seriously dude, you came in here to advertise your version of C4C during a "discuss" where we call C4C a hoax, scam, blatant lies, etc. and I will show you HOW YOU FAILED:

1. You provide no argument as the legitimacy of the practice. You just said, "Our way is better" in so many words. This shows me that you did not read through the posts before yours as you would realize that WE AREN'T BUYING IT! You are like a used car salesman going to another used car lot to tell people that your cars are in better condition.

2. We did not stop the gold standard, it was set at a fixed rate to nullify its influence on currency value. If you are not aware, the US kinda horded all the gold. It gave us a lot of influence of the world economy. I am not going into the political stuff as it would blow your tiny mind; however, I will say we agreed with the world that setting a fixed rate of exchange on gold and allowing the world economy to be based more on the economy would be a better system for everyone. See here for too much information. Many politicians want to go back to the gold standard because it would give the US something to trade, loan, and use as pay outs to other countries to band-aid the problems we have. It would be a temporary fix to an underlining issue of "the US needs to make some stuff other countries want to buy besides raw materials and porn".

But I digress. I think I am done here as this discussion is no longer entertaining to me.

Easy Rhino · Feb 17, 2011

please stay on topic.

praxeologist · Feb 17, 2011

Serious facepalm... This is my last post at this place.

Check out this video for an explanation of what bitcoin is.

See also episode #287 of Security Now here. (and #288 in part)

theonedub · Feb 17, 2011

@ LaughingMan- Bluematt gave us more information on this whole thing than C4C did. I don't know what you are seeing, but he explained exactly how C4C is exploiting the people running their client and gave the resources needed to cut them out of the picture.

If anyone wants to learn more about how the dollar works, the gold standard, fiat currency, the Federal Reserve, how banks work, or money supply- take some classes at your local community college or University.

Easy Rhino · Feb 17, 2011

i think it is funny that people participating in bitcoin get mad when we say it is a bunch of crap. of course they will get mad because they need people to buy into it for it to have any real value. if we dont buy into it then they lose their investment.

pantherx12 · Feb 17, 2011

Easy Rhino said:
i think it is funny that people participating in bitcoin get mad when we say it is a bunch of crap. of course they will get mad because they need people to buy into it for it to have any real value. if we dont buy into it then they lose their investment.

Mad?

Upset maybe, it seems you very overly negative about this man.

theonedub · Feb 17, 2011

^ In his defense he is only bringing up the bigger picture that many people will not bother to see.

Compute4Cash · Feb 17, 2011

Well, I guess our advertising was more effective than anticipated - we thought it would be another couple of weeks before the word got out about Bitcoin.

That being said, BlueMatt is misleading you as well. As discussed previously, there are a lot of factors that play into these types of profitability calculations and it is not fair to say that Compute4Cash takes 48% more than the Bitcoin pools.

There are several significant differences between Bitcoin mining pools and Compute4Cash:

Compute4Cash pays users in USD for the work they complete, without any complicated or expensive currency exchanges.

Compute4Cash pays a fixed rate not subject to market fluctuations or probability games.

Compute4Cash uses less bandwidth than pooled Bitcoin efforts.

The Compute4Cash client is slightly more efficient than poclbm.

The profitability of Bitcoin pools is about to drop *significantly* when the difficulty factor nearly doubles in the next few days – Compute4Cash users’ income won’t change a bit. It may change next month when our promo period ends, but we are hoping that the numbers will allow us to not have to drop it all the way to $0.10/WU.

The bottom line is that Compute4Cash is easier for users and more stable than pooled Bitcoin efforts are. It’s true, our profit margin is higher than that of the Bitcoin pool owners, but there is a good reason for it and we’re confident that most users will see the value in the service we offer.

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Compute4Cash: it's a trap or not?

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