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Console Porting is killing PC Gaming PQ.

Discussion in 'Games' started by nt300, Oct 26, 2012.

?

Have Games Stagnated, and who would you blame?

  1. Weak Spec Consoles (Age Old Hardware)

    26 vote(s)
    21.3%
  2. Lazy Game Developers (Cheap Console Ports)

    53 vote(s)
    43.4%
  3. Both AMD & NVIDIA (Messed up Drivers)

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
  4. All of the Above

    22 vote(s)
    18.0%
  5. None of the Above

    19 vote(s)
    15.6%
  1. Super XP

    Super XP

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    You create a game based on the PC platform (Not Age Old Consoles). This guarantees the best possible development and maximum Graphics quality. If coded properly, there won't be an issue with performance. Then you port that over to consoles which is inferior to the PC.

    This would guarantee that the console would also get the best possible looking game. You will always have the option to adjust your PQ settings to ensure it runs on slower hardware.

    It should not be the other way around. Creating games around the Xbox 360 for instance is ridiculous and OLD. This tells me Dev's are lazy as F**k. No texture packs will properly make a console port onto PC look good because the original was created on garbage.
    nt300, Lionheart and Kwod say thanks.
  2. Widjaja

    Widjaja

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    Maybe if this was the way things went, we would see DX 11 being a lot more optimized across the spectrum of games available instead of feeling like an afterthought because the difference noted is so small and the fps appears to be a lot lower at times.

    Good example Batman Arkham City on DX11.
  3. GLD

    GLD

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    Todays lesson:

    PC-Gamers

    Consoles-Gaymers

    :nutkick:
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  4. Dent1

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    So 32,000 users online today were playing MW3 on steam. OK

    So how many users were playing on Xbox Live and PS3 Online? :) :rolleyes:


    Looks like SuperXP has already owned Darkleoco. I have nothing more to add. Enjoy your weekend guys.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2012
    Super XP says thanks.
  5. pantherx12

    pantherx12 New Member

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    More games for PC with off-line multi-player would help a lot.

    One of the most annoying things is having a racing game or some such and only having online as an option, should be able to bust in two or more controllers and have at it.
  6. Super XP

    Super XP

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    I have to agree. I like choice, I don't mind Multi-Player but I want to choice whether to go on line or not. A good match is Mult-player and Single Player for most games. But Single Player is very important.
  7. newconroer

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    1600p needs to be breached. We already have televisions and display monitors at 4k and 8k resolution. Even when there's very little broadcasting content for them to be used with, they are still pushing forward with development and sales.

    2160p
    4320p
    8640p

    If developers would get on board (Carmack would love this?) then there will be a real tangible reason for AMD and Nvidia to bring the next generation to us now, rather than later after the boats have all sailed.
  8. trickson

    trickson OH, I have such a headache

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    All the above!
  9. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    I blame the lack of console memory. It shows in virtually every multi-platform title (small detailed environments or large lackluster environments).


    The poll forgot bad controls/limited configuration when porting to PC. That's another big area that needs work. The irony of it is, even with lackluster controls, I still tend to like them better with keyboard and mouse than Microsoft Xbox360 controller.


    You do realize that, even in a lot of newer games, a 2 TFlOp GPU can't even handle 2560x1600 (4 MP) at >30 FPS. 2160p (3840x2160) is over 8 MP so it would require a minimum of 4 TFlOp of power to run it. You're talking billions of transistors consuming hundreds of watts with today's process technology.

    Processing power is a limited quantity. Most developers would choose lower resolution and higher detail than high resolution and low detail.

    This, just on the GPU end. There's major implications involving RAM, HDD performance, CPU performance, and VRAM amount/performance as well. It'll likely happen eventually, but not in the next 5, 10, or even 15 years. Well, you can if you don't mind spending $10,000+ on a gaming system, but it won't be mainstream until probably at least 20 years out.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2012
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  10. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

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    Other than the fact you are completely wrong on everything, it's not a bad post.

    No developer wants their game to be poor on any platform. They are not lazy.
    They are constrained by the publishers deadlines and budget restrictions.

    There is way more to it than just graphic quality.
    You can't just write a game for the PC and simply port it to consoles. They are completely different.
    You have to rewrite the game for other platforms to optimize the performance and playability.
    The same is true in the other direction (Console -> PC) if you want to make use of the power of a PC.

    The games that are great on both have teams dedicated to the individual platforms to ensure they meet specific standard for their intended platform. These developers have gotten the publishers to pry open their wallets so that can happen. You will usually see this only with IP that has a proven track record of high sales across all platforms, because publishers will not fork over the development costs for a particular platform if they feel the ROI is questionable.

    Toss into the mix that the publishers can come in an say they don't like something and trash months of work in a heartbeat.

    With the huge rise in sales of mobile devices (tablets for instance) you once again have another market segment that the developers may have to target and there is no guarantee that the publisher won't rob Peter (PC development) to pay Paul (Mobile development).

    What I'm saying, is don't blame the devs. They work stupid long hours under unrealistic budget and release deadline constraints. Blame the publishers.
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  11. newconroer

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    Are you speaking to pure compute power, or general purpose?
    If it was all down to compute power, than certain GPUs would blow others away on those raw numbers alone, but they don't.

    A 680 is 2.5 teraflops, and 1600p is not a problem for it.

    It all has to start somewhere - and it seems every other variable (as you've mentioned above) are progressively worked on with maximum advancements in mind. I know Intel and AMD have tech hidden away in some labs that we won't use or need for a long time - it's just not practical. The GPU market however is run by two companies who intentionally sandbag public release in order to increase market share or profit.

    There are plenty of wealthy people who would happily and already do, own 4k or 8k screens. And yet the best they can view on them is 1600p.

    You would think that all over the world right now, AAA and especially independent 3d studios would be chompin at the bit to showoff their 4k artwork and graphics - considering it's been saturated by the photography scene for years.

    Imagine if RAGE really was a tech demo, that really did have 1:1 8k resolution textures!
    Who cares if you had to goto to consumer electronics show to view it in person and make a custom order with Id software, that WOULD sell to not only people but other studios.

    Something has to be the match that sets the fire.
  12. TheMailMan78

    TheMailMan78 Big Member

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    yogurt_21 says thanks.
  13. Widjaja

    Widjaja

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    This is a sad fact.
    Sales is also probably determines the amount of patches which are released afterwards.

    Although I have seen a worrying trend to fork out little DLC packs instead with some titles.
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  14. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Total GPU compute power per second.


    Depends on game and settings. I'm not talking about desktop (2D) resolutions, I'm talking about fullscreen 3D. An Intel HD 4000 can handle 4096x4096 desktop resolution but if you do anything significant on it, it will croak.


    That's due to cable limitations. VGA cables were only intended for up to 2048x1536; DVI is up to 2560x1600, DisplayPort is up to 3840x2160. You need many cables to power resolutions any higher than that.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  15. BumbleBee

    BumbleBee

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    this happens at the end of every console cycle. it's a rubber band. PC will get better looking games then at the end of the next console cycle we will be talking about the same thing.

    the game design worries me more..
  16. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Even next generation consoles, compared to computers, will lack RAM (and every generation before it). The amount of RAM directly correlates with game design. They can't do big, ambitious things because there isn't enough RAM to process it in. Console games are just now starting to do things (like RTS) that computers have been doing for decades. They need to cut back on CPUs and invest in more RAM.
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  17. Drone

    Drone

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    None of the Above


    People with low expectations are to blame.
  18. newconroer

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    I'll have to stand by what I said then. If we're on the samge page here, a 7970's compute power is almost 3.7 Tera, yet it doesn't stomp all over the GTX 680.

    3d as in actual stereo vision 3d or just a normal full screen application?
    Because if it's the latter, then of course a GTX 680 handles 1600p!

    My comment was in reference to the fact there's not much content to be had or seen on 4k/8k hardware. There's little broadcast, and certainly no games offering it - even with the right physical connections (as you mentioned, cabling).

    Good news is, the manufacturers pushing forward with 4k/8k regardless of small market requirements, means it's already begun!
  19. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Most games can be made to run at any resolution.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  20. aayman_farzand

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    I was kinda glad to see the PC gaming picture till I saw the most played games, 44% is Puzzle or Board games....yea so much for using the bleeding edge hardware.
  21. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

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    That graphic shows 44% to be online games and does not indicate on what platform.
    There are, however, a lot of people who use their PCs to play simple and social games to pass the time.
    My neighbor has logged 1000s of games of solitaire. lol
  22. Lionheart

    Lionheart

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    I wonder when Ray Tracing will become the norm or even be released:peace:
  23. ShiBDiB

    ShiBDiB

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    I'm sure its been said, but i dont feel like reading everyones posts.


    PC GAMING IS NOT CLOSE TO BEING DEAD

    if anything its on the rise.
  24. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

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    This thread has nothing to do with PC gaming dying, but thank for clearing that up for us.
  25. ShiBDiB

    ShiBDiB

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    The thread title is.. Console Porting is killing PC Gaming

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