Copper vs. Aluminum - Thermal Conductivity & Radiation

[Thrackan]

Well, I just checked a spec report here:
High-grade aluminum is 99.8+ % Al and the rest is mostly Fe, Cd, Hg and Pb
Low-grade aluminum is ~99.2% Al with the same "rest" elements.

For construction work and car wheels etc, that makes a dumpload of difference, but for a heatsink that's near nothing.

 

[Deleted member 3]

not only that but you have to consider the weight of the cooler.

From a cooling standpoint it doesn't really matter. Besides, socket 604 (Nocona) and 771 have bolts going through the motherboard right into the case, which effectively makes it irrelevant that you have 2KG of coolers hanging in your case. The stock heatsinks are pure copper.


Apart from that, seeing Farnsworth next to text makes me believe the text easier.

 

[95Viper]

:shadedshu

I find this thread very sad and disappointing. I thought TPU members had a little more scientific knowledge and understanding.

What is also very sad is that due to the w1zzards superb google placings, this thread now comes to the top of a search. How terrible for someone who really wants to understand. So many posts in this thread spout or "+1" total bullsharks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_sink
http://www.heatsink-guide.com/
... AND your skool physiks book.

Free advertising!

That's why I want somebody to quote a scholarly source that everybody can trust, and answer the question in order to kill the myths once and for all, because there are too many web sites and forums that have opinions that are incorrect.

Then maybe somebody else can find something...that's why I made this public.

Wikipedia will not be good enough, as it can be user-edited.

This would be a sick Physics class project to explain and justify why one is better than the other

Not really , because far from numbers and need for knowledge , you have left out side the machinist who will create for you, one working heatsink.

One cube of material is unable to offer anything .

So , more important than metal , are the design .
After the successful design comes the metal .
And the limitations of handling the metal .

Aluminum are soft !! There is no way to make one thin fins design with aluminum body.

Lets talk about things that are possible to be created , and not imaginary .

Technology of 1997 1998 ... ALPHA P3 125
http://two.xthost.info/kiriakost/html/1998.html

And if you do not know how to evaluate coolers by their design , how in earth you could possible tell,
which one are the best , you will buy them all ?

copper is the king, unless ur on a budget, just my two cents.

http://www.thermshield.com/ThermshieldPages/Copper_vs_Aluminum.pdf

Check these guys(girls) out, catalog has a lot of info:http://www.thermshield.com/ThermshieldPages/Thermshield%20Catalog%20low-res.pdf
Their main page:http://www.thermshield.com/

If you looked here,at the links in my post, you would have got your info. I think they know how to design, evaluate, and build them. I believe that engineer has studied the facts.

It seems to be a case of I (not refering to me personally, read next sentence)am right you and the rest of the world is wrong. Facts are facts.

I don't know because I never studied thermal properties in school. So, I go by what scholars, eng., research labs and such, come up with and publish. READ.

Have a good day.

 

[Odin Eidolon]

copper is much better. the physics regarding this is pretty simple IMHO.

however, making a simple example, TRUE copper> TRUE aluminium by a fair margin, and with every fan speed. since the only difference (apart from weight ofc) between those two coolers is the material, we can deduce that copper is better.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

From a cooling standpoint it doesn't really matter. Besides, socket 604 (Nocona) and 771 have bolts going through the motherboard right into the case, which effectively makes it irrelevant that you have 2KG of coolers hanging in your case. The stock heatsinks are pure copper.


Apart from that, seeing Farnsworth next to text makes me believe the text easier.

Good News Everyone!!

I dont agree with you though. You have never had a video card or motherboard that was warped from all the weight? Even with rods going through the motherboard the PCB can flex and after a long enough time it will warp. This really only happens on video cards and tower mounted motherboards, where the entire weight of the cooler is hanging off the socket.

 

[Odin Eidolon]

Good News Everyone!!

I dont agree with you though. You have never had a video card or motherboard that was warped from all the weight? Even with rods going through the motherboard the PCB can flex and after a long enough time it will warp. This really only happens on video cards and tower mounted motherboards, where the entire weight of the cooler is hanging off the socket.

he just said:

bolts going through the motherboard right into the case

weight is not hanging off the socket like you said, but off the motherboard tray

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Oh..through the entire motherboard tray? Never seen that. Cool!

 

[Deleted member 3]

Good News Everyone!!

I dont agree with you though. You have never had a video card or motherboard that was warped from all the weight? Even with rods going through the motherboard the PCB can flex and after a long enough time it will warp. This really only happens on video cards and tower mounted motherboards, where the entire weight of the cooler is hanging off the socket.

The bendering part is a mounting problem caused by weight, not cooling. And as I stated, on s604/771 the issue isn't really there since the coolers aren't mounted to any PCB.

 

[DrPepper]

I still say its easy to comapre the true al versus the true cu and see which is better. This way it takes variables like design and thickness of fins etc out of the equation. I don't see how aluminium dissipates heat any faster than copper I thought that was dependant on what it was transferring the heat to which in both cases is air.

 

[DarkMatter]

I still say its easy to comapre the true al versus the true cu and see which is better. This way it takes variables like design and thickness of fins etc out of the equation. I don't see how aluminium dissipates heat any faster than copper I thought that was dependant on what it was transferring the heat to which in both cases is air.

I agree, nothing better than actual coolers to show the diffference. The Zalman VF-700 is another example, I have had both -Cu and -AlCu and it makes a world of a difference.

I don't know where the "Al dissipates better to air" thing comes, but it's not true. It must come from someone saying x grams of Al fins dissipates more heat than the same mass of Cu fins or something. In that case it's (probably*) true, because Al fins could have 3x the surface of comparable Cu fins, but that's all.

*Remains to be seen IMO. If both where given the same airflow the smaller Cu one could still dissipate better. The problem?? Cu would require a smaller, faster and noisier fan to achieve the same airflow.

 

[shadow0000]

I think copper is much better to use than the aluminum, cause copper is can absorb the heat and change a cool, but the aluminum i don't think so if they can absorb heat and change it to cool..



__________________
Copper Sinks

 

[Odin Eidolon]

I think copper is much better to use than the aluminum, cause copper is can absorb the heat and change a cool, but the aluminum i don't think so if they can absorb heat and change it to cool..



__________________
Copper Sinks

not really a scientific explanation uh?

 

[kiriakost]

The basics of cooling electronic parts , are well know at the last 40 years , VCRs - TVs - Audio systems .... all gets sufficient cooling .

What is under investigation are , high performance coolers at low price .

If price was not an issue , Gold and Silver are the top metals for the job

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

I don't get why this went past the first page. As stated repeatedly copper is best, but weighs and cost more, so that's why we see the copper pipe aluminum fins combo so often. What else needs to be said?

 

[lemonadesoda]

Copper is so cheap (less than $5 per kg), it is amazing that any decent "aftermarket" cooler over $25 is made from anything BUT copper. It doesnt even have to be the highest grade copper. But there you go, that's the economics of distribution.

Take a $40 cooler. $5 tax. $10 to the retailer, and $5 to the distributor/wholesaler. $3 on international shipping. $3 on advertising. $3 on packaging. $3 on the fan and mounting system. What's left? $8. From that you need to design, manufacture and make a profit. So OK... it's amazing any cooler under $40 isnt made from plastic! LOL

 

[DrPepper]

Take a $40 cooler. $5 tax. $10 to the retailer, and $5 to the distributor/wholesaler. $3 on international shipping. $3 on advertising. $3 on packaging. $3 on the fan and mounting system. What's left? $8. From that you need to design, manufacture and make a profit. So OK... it's amazing any cooler under $40 isnt made from plastic! LOL

 

[3870x2]

Copper is so cheap (less than $5 per kg), it is amazing that any decent "aftermarket" cooler over $25 is made from anything BUT copper. It doesnt even have to be the highest grade copper. But there you go, that's the economics of distribution.

Take a $40 cooler. $5 tax. $10 to the retailer, and $5 to the distributor/wholesaler. $3 on international shipping. $3 on advertising. $3 on packaging. $3 on the fan and mounting system. What's left? $8. From that you need to design, manufacture and make a profit. So OK... it's amazing any cooler under $40 isnt made from plastic! LOL

as has already been stated, it is easier to remove the heat from aluminum, therefor a copper base and aluminum fins would be better than a whole copper setup.

 

[aspire]

as has already been stated, it is easier to remove the heat from aluminum, therefor a copper base and aluminum fins would be better than a whole copper setup.

Again, this is a stupid myth that has been perpetuated for far too long.

 

[DrPepper]

as has already been stated, it is easier to remove the heat from aluminum, therefor a copper base and aluminum fins would be better than a whole copper setup.

Don't copper and aluminium dissapate heat equally efficiently in air unless they have different insulating properties.

 

[kiriakost]

Again, this is a stupid myth that has been perpetuated for far too long.

No its not a myth ... but wait a minute ... are you metallurgist ?

Calling stupid , something that you have no knowledge of it , its stupid by it self.

 

[aspire]

No its not a myth ... but wait a minute ... are you metallurgist ?

Calling stupid , something that you have no knowledge of it , its stupid by it self.

Care to try and find me information from any reputable source stating that aluminum dissipates heat faster than copper?

 

[kiriakost]

Don't copper and aluminium dissapate heat equally efficiently in air unless they have different insulating properties.

Its all about the interior structure of the metal ...

I am not specialist , but i work with metals , aluminum looks to have a crystallized composition.
The crystallized composition makes it not that solid, but lightweight.

Copper has more compressed structure , at the end, two similar shaped & sized items , will show the copper one as heavier .

Since copper has a more compressed structure , electrons flow faster .

Heat from the other hand, mimics the electrons flow , because " Heat = energy "

The Aluminums crystallized composition, helps heat to escape better , because radiates the heat better .

Coppers compressed " crystallized composition " has more mass , so it radiates less .

Metals with truly high composition "compressed structure" like Steel,
offers mechanical strength, but they are even poorer as heat radiators .

Its good that we have so many options as metals , its one offers special ability s ,
to chose and use .

 

[3870x2]

figured it was common metallurgic knowledge that a metal that is less dense will release heat quicker. Guess i was wrong?¿?¿

EDIT: what he said ^^
common sense guys, pay attention.

 

[kiriakost]

Care to try and find me information from any reputable source stating that aluminum dissipates heat faster than copper?

Try school books .

 

[aspire]

While this might be the case in a large block of metal, the amount of heat that the thin fin of a heatsink of radiator makes the difference in time needed to dissipate the same amount of heat negligible.

On top of the fact that these fins never get hot to begin with. As I've said in other threads, if your heatsink (tower style) is ever hot to the touch, you have an airflow problem.

All in all, copper is the most practical metal to use in terms of performance cooling.

Try school books .

So sorry, never had the opportunity to take a metallurgy class.