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Creative Software Modder Daniel_K Gone for Good

Discussion in 'News' started by malware, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. allen337

    allen337

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    The way I see it creative has crippled the drivers so you ( the customer) will buy a new sound card when they are made. Now that the cats out of the bag, with daniel k moding these drivers and fixing the issues with vista everyone knows how creative has treated their customers over the years. Most companies allow a 3-5 year support on their hardware buy creative wants you to buy new every year to help support them. Thats like my ISP provider crippling my connection to 56k and raising it 56k every year and charging me double, wonder how many customers my isp would have?
  2. Sapientwolf New Member

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    I understand your point completely. I'm not too informed on the details of the driver situation. I just wanted to make a point about the "I payed for it, it should work to its fullest" argument that is faulty when take service into account (which you seem to understand).

    If Creative is limiting features unfairly, then yes, you should be be getting what you payed for.

    I've been using an HT-Omega Claro+ for quite a while now, no problems whatsoever, software is lightweight and functionaly, sounds great. I recommend it to anyone, or an Auzentech X-Meridian, which is based on the same C-media chip and uses the same software.
  3. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    now that I've had a chance to get some fresh, warm, humid air :D

    yep, even moreso with baltic peoples . . . . once the pride and stubborness kick in - it's no longer about the argument :laugh:

    I completely believe it. I even wondered if after nVidia left the development, it turned into MS and Creative butting heads over how things were going to go. No one really knows, as even that info on the MS+Creative+nVidia collaboration is fairly unknown - and I can't even remember where I read that . . . MaximumPC, I think :confused:

    Plus, their tech support is stoopid - every once and a while I throw an email their way with some BS dumb issue I've made up just to see what kind of responses I'll get - all I can say is that they are 100% predictable at this point, and even if you come across as being tech knowledgable, they respond to you like your a tech illiterate n00b. Like I mentioned earlier, their poor support was what drove me to start the X-Fi thread here, so that users out there could have somewhere they could look up typical issues and ask questions and get real answers. From what I've seen over the last couple of years, you couldn't go asking questions on the Creative forums due to the number of trolls that hang out there, so . . .


    a little of both, most of the driver issues I've seen usually resulted from an improper/corrupted install, or something similar.

    I can say, though, that their driver download links aren't always labeled correctly. I don't think their driver team does enough support testing, either. For example, I've found for the longest time that all of the X-Fi update drivers for the XP Media Center Edition are all incompatible, as much as the drivers list the OS as being supported. That turns into a headache for the customer, and for those trying to help the users.


    I see your point, as I think it wrong as well - but we'll never know if it was just meant to be a temporary thing, and the ongoing debacle with the dan_k drivers just blew up during the middle of it.

    I also see your point with the VGA adapter argument - but at the same time, they'd never have to worry about dropping support like that. If you want to keep up with the newest games, you've got to upgrade the video card sooner or later, y'know? It's rough to be able to keep going with current games on a video card thats 3-4 years old, much less 5-6.

    I had mentioned in other threads a while ago, the audio card, from any manufacturer, outlasts just about every other piece of hardware in a rig (unless you're an audiophile and constantly wanting the newest thing :p). They're not subjected to the same rigors as other pieces of hardware, and for 90% of users, as long as it still sounds alright, there's nothing wrong with the card. I mean, hell, just for example, I just finally convinced my father last month to upgrade from his . . . ENSONIQ PCI!! That's right, the first sound card that got away from the ISA standard . . . the first PCI soundcard, and one of the first true multi-channel cards. That thing is 12+ years old at this point, but still works fine (even in Vista . . . surprisingly). He just didn't see a point considering the card still worked.

    IDK, I guess I just think the notion of people wanting to hold onto an audio card for more than 5-7 years, and expecting it to function properly in the most recent WIN OS to hit shelves is kinda unrealistic.


    I'm just curious as I'm not sure . . . those are the official drivers? C-Media doesn't always keep up with updating their site, as the most recent driver release for the 8738 based cards is dated 2002.

    TBH, I don't really keep up with C-Media chipsets too much, as they like to do little "tweaks" here and there for different manufacturers . . . makes it hard to keep up when 3 different card manufacturers are using the CMI8788 chipset, but each one has a version that's "tweaked" just for them


    yep - sad, IMO. DMCA is a load of crock, IMO, and doesn't nullify the original copyright act of 86 . . . which is dumb becasue the two acts contradict each other.

    I still go by the old school rule, though, and will backup my software, CDs, DVDs, etc as I see fit - even if I have to break copy protection to do so. By the old act, I'm within my rights as long as I don't make numerous copies and/or distribute copies.



    my initial impression of the whole issue when it erupted a couple of months ago, was that it could be an issue with Creative and Auzen - as Auzentech had Dolby encoding enabled, Creative didn't (although their cards were capable). Dolby encoding was a big selling point with the Prelude . . . but, based on Creative's reaction then, I had gotten the feeling that they were being pressured to act.

    But, it's very true, though, that hardware manufacturers will sometimes kill or disable features as time goes on . . . they just don't trip over themselves and publicly admit to it like Creative did. That little incident right there, IMO, will go down in the list of top-10 biggest tech blunders. Partly why I think they were pressured to act, if it was of their own accord, you think they would've at least reviewed it a little better . . .

    s'all good - I'm just trying to shed some light on the other sides of the argument, that's all. There are a lot of Creative bashers out there who go on without any real definitive argument, and there are also many who just enjoy the mob-mentality. But, in trying to show the other side of the argument, I realize I'm going to come across as being a fanboi (and it helps that I can stay reasonably level-headed as well :laugh:), especially to those who are fed up with the companies practices, and even moreso when the subject matter is as heated as the issue with the dan_k drivers has been.
  4. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    Alright Can we get back on Track:wtf:
  5. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    and this really makes me feel 'i told you so'

    Many times, even on this forum iv'e told people that creative dont support daniel_k and his drivers, and never did - and heres the proof (again)

    I'll be getting the HDMI xonar as my next card, and never going back to creative until they start supporting older products.
    1c3d0g and eidairaman1 say thanks.
  6. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    Speaking of Which, Next system Build will probably have a HT Omega Sound Unit in mine heh.
  7. thebeephaha

    thebeephaha

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    Anything with the Oxygen HD chipset in it will be great.

    My Auzentech X-Meridian is absolutely stunning. Gaming performance is not as good as the X-Fi but sound quality I put to the X-Meridian any day. The design of this card is second to none.

    I see no reason to go to Creative unless you are dedicated to needing true EAX support and even then the ASUS cards emulate that very well.
  8. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

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    I don't even care if they support older products on new OSes, so long as they officially EOL'd the product. X-Fi isn't EOL, so it should have all of it's features enabled for Vista as well as XP, especially considering X-Fi products are "Vista Ready".

    But as far as this email to D_K, even if it is a fake, I don't blame him for throwing in the towel. No matter how you look at it, Creative is treating their customers unfairly. The EULA be damned. "An unjust law is no law at all." -St Augustine
  9. TheMailMan78

    TheMailMan78 Big Member

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    Wow Creative just lost a customer in me. I see hardware like any other thing I buy. Its mine. I should be able to do what I want with it. Bottom line is he wasn't making profit. He did this because he was just that good/kind. If Honda, Toyota, Ford or Chevy let you mod their software for better performance why cant creative? I cant tell you how many times Iv flashed my Mustang (no jokes) and got better than stock performance. Can you imagine if auto makers took this stance? "We will take legal action against all mechanics or drivers if they fix our cars, acquire better gas mileage or drive over 30 mph as stated in the EULA."

    imperialreign,
    FYI automakers do have EULA. When you buy a car and you sign all them little papers it states in the fine print you wont do anything unlawful in the vehicle. Now I ask you how many times have YOU went over the speed limit or did a U-turn and got a ticket from your cars manufacturer?
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2008
  10. NympH New Member

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    Someone quick buy out creative and shut them down!
  11. tigger

    tigger I'm the only one

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    I've got the stuff(files etc),i'm just gonna enable ddl on my x-fi.Blow me creative.
  12. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    if you get that working let me know. i have a few friends with X-fi cards who tried, and failed to get it to work. (wrong drivers, i beleive)
  13. jydie New Member

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    First off, I get really mad when a company fails to release driver updates for some of their older products.

    Creative are fools... ATI has not been supporting some of the newer video cards that come out for AGP, but thanks to the Omega drivers these cards work fine with the new drivers. If ATI/AMD forced Omega to stop releasing these drivers then a LOT of people would be angry and ATI would suffer with less sales. If anything, ATI should thank him for helping them out. Creative should be thankinig Daniel K, not threatening him.

    I do not own any creative sound cards. I do not desire much from audio since my PC has a simple 2 speaker setup, so I just use onboard sound. But, if I ever buy a sound card it will NOT be one from Creative. For the price you pay, they should support their products for a long time by releasing updated drivers. I am glad they got caught in a lie... they deserve to have their name tarnished for that!!! :shadedshu
  14. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    BS dude, you dont look hard enough

    http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=31542

    Also most games ive played Omega Drivers tend to screw them up, thats the risk you take onto your own, reason The big companies dont support the Creators is because they dont want to be answering questions when the person that created the drivers is the one that is supposed to know.

  15. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design

    read that to get a good definition of how ReactOS was created.

    ghost101 says thanks.
  16. ghost101

    ghost101 New Member

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    Interesting read. So if Daniel can prove that he used Clean Room Design, Creative cant do anything. But obviously he didnt and so my point stands. Clean Room Desing seems to be consistent with what React OS called "ground-up implementation" anyway.
  17. allen337

    allen337

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    Dont really matter what way he came about fixing all of creatives problems with xp-vista, what matter is creative is using their drivers to criple your $200 card so it doesnt work in vista so you(the customer) will buy a new card, even though the 2 month old $200 card says VISTA READY on the box. Cats out of the bag, no excuse for it.
    1c3d0g says thanks.
  18. kenkickr

    kenkickr

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    This is the most sophisticated post I have seen in this post. I used my Audigy 2ZS for about 5 years and only upgraded cause my card and Vista had issues, which are now fixed due to daniel_k. Wonderful drivers and if you haven't tried them check this site out. http://nomoregoatsoup.wordpress.com/x-fi-drivers/
    Crunching for Team TPU
  19. donmarkoni New Member

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    This is unbelieveable! Creative WILL loose so much customers and money because of this.
    Anyone remember NVIDIA and unlocking shaders? They are smart company! People unlocked shaders and loved NVIDIA cards for that! NV didn't sued RivaTuner's author. They changed their way of disabling shaders and no one complained, everyone were satisfied with what they had before, even if they couldn't have it with newer GPUs.
    I won't discuss who is right and who is not, because there is allmost nothing else to say, but i'll have to say that, as a proffesional overclocker and amatuer modder, i'm 100% by daniel_k's side!
    Stupid move, creative, stupid...
  20. HousERaT New Member

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    My last sound card was a Creative. It will be my last Creative sound card. They're officially on my BOYCOTT list.
  21. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    seeing as how this thread has brought a lot of users out of the woodworks -

    I just have one question for everyone that has decided that this incident is the last straw . . . what if, per chance, this little message to dan_k from "Creative" does turn out to be a hoax?

    I'm only mentioning based on the fact that over the last couple of months, since the first incident with the dan_k drivers hit the i-net, Creative seems to have been making changes here and there back in the right direction . . . considering the fallout of the last incident, there's a good possiblity they might be trying to clean up their PR - for how long they'll stick with it is questionable - but what if they are trying to turn around and that message was just a hoax?
  22. allen337

    allen337

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    If it was a hoax you bet your ass someone over at the creative forums would say so after all this bad pr. Ive been on 5 different forums and all are done with creative, think they would clear the air if its a hoax. ALLEN
  23. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    I'd hope so . . . but considering how long it took them to respond to the user outcry after the initial incident a couple of months ago . . . :shadedshu

    Perhaps this incident will prove if their PR department has actually learned anything
  24. DaMulta

    DaMulta My stars went supernova

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    Big Fing LOL, took a little while for them to go look into the email they sent......Their forum board must work on the same time table as their driver team....

    daniel_k


    KokChoy-CL
    Administrator

    06-08-2008 06:25 PM
  25. imperialreign

    imperialreign New Member

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    that comment right there cracked me up man! :laugh:

    nice! :toast:

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