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DirectX 11.2 Exclusive to Windows 8.1 and Xbox One

Discussion in 'News' started by btarunr, Jul 4, 2013.

  1. Tatty_One

    Tatty_One Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Thing is, nobody really cares, when ever Microsoft announces a plot like this, such as DX10/Vista etc etc most people just ignore them, carry on playing their favorite games and NEVER noticing that almost unnoticable improvement that the DX .1 or .2 brings becuase hey..... there is not any real notable improvement, and of course you NEVER miss what you didn't have in the first place.

    Personally, I like Windows 8, installed it on my daughters desktop and after a few days was well into the new flow of things, clearly Microsfort looks upon me as a minority otherwise why would they be doing this if they were selling the OS like hot cakes? The strategy didn't work too well with Vista, possibly because the games devlopers didn't seem very interested. So, until DX11.whatever allows me to smell the fart of my teammate in some coop battle, rather than notice a few more dust particles when the ground erupts from a shell I will stay where I am thanks very much.
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  2. OnePostWonder

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    By all indication, he won't being crying about how Windows 8 can do everything Windows 9 can because he sees no added benefit of using Windows 8 over Windows 7. If anything, he'd complain Windows 7 can do everything Windows 9 can, but it is 100% speculation as we know nothing about what Windows 9 entails.

    It's also a bit of a straw-man argument that because Windows has provided "THOUSANDS" of hours of entertainment and a platform to complain about problems, that all is right with it and that it has no irredeemable qualities.
  3. Red_Machine

    Red_Machine

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    The only thing stopping Microsoft porting DX 11.2 to Windows 7 and Vista is themselves. Look at it this way: Windows 95 started with nothing and got updated all the way to DX 8.0a, 98 started with DX 5.2 and got updated all the way to 9.0c, XP started with 8.1 and again got all the way up to 9.0c. Vista was when it started going downhill, I had my doubts that it was ever going to get DX 11 the way M$ were going about things but it did eventually. Now Windows 7 is stuck with DX 11, not even a single update, which is just unacceptable.

    It's all bullshit to try to get people to upgrade to the latest and "greatest" version. Not that it really matters to me, because I got Windows 8 free through TechNet anyway, I'm merely standing on principle here. I was forced to upgrade from Vista to 7, when I didn't want to, because Microsoft wouldn't patch TRIM support into Vista and I'd just bought an SSD, plus I desperately needed a more stable file transferring system. It sucked trying to transfer large files, because if I brought up another window it would cause Explorer to lock up and not show me transfer progress, so I had no idea if my transfers were failing or continuing as normal and would just have to wait to see if it finished or not. That and the whole mainstream support cycle ending was looming overhead and I didn't want to risk any security holes that MS would be lazy over patching.

    TL;DR: It's got nothing to do with drivers, it's just then trying to force people to upgrade. Just look back at DirectX's history and see for yourselves.
  4. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    to stir up flames, i saw a news report that basically said windows 9 will go back to the aero interface - however, its going to be 'new'
  5. MxPhenom 216

    MxPhenom 216 Corsair Fanboy

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    That's only because current console life is ending. Once next gen consoles launch. Console growth will grow faster then PC once again.
  6. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Explain to me why 64-bit games are few and far between then. Publishers love consoles because they are a DRM-rich, walled garden. That's why they focus on consoles and Windows often gets ported.

    Also Xbox One could outship PS4 3-to-1 this year so the "huge user backlash" is likely coming from people that aren't likely to buy an Xbone in the first place.

    I said developers would use 11.2 because it is the easiest conversion path from Xbone to Windows; however, I also said that they would likely offer "backwards compatibility" too, most likely down to at least DirectX 11.0 because that's where most of the current customers are.

    TL;DR: Microsoft is paving the way for the future; developers will use what they want.

    Yes it does. Windows 8.1 = WDDM 1.3 = Direct3D 11.2: requires compatible hardware/drivers with all of the above to function with all of the above.

    Since Microsoft is offering 8.1 as a downloaded update to 8, there's likely no hardware changes required to upgrade the driver to WDDM 1.3; however, as will all previous versions of Direct3D, the hardware must support it in order to use it.

    People are only "forced" to upgrade if a developer decides to support only Direct3D 11.2 and these "people" must play the game. It's no different than when people were "forced" to upgrade to Windows Vista (or newer) to play Direct3D 10 games.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
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  7. Red_Machine

    Red_Machine

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    That's what they're saying, but I think it's just a convenient excuse. Back in the days of 98 and XP, DirectX was deliberately coded to be backwards-compatible with older driver models, which also allowed older cards designed for previous versions of DirectX to be given software support for later versions' advanced rendering features. That miraculously stopped when Vista came out and they first used the driver excuse. MS knew it was going to be hard to get people to make the transition from XP to Vista, because they'd used it for so long and people generally hate new things, so they tempted gamers with DirectX 10 claiming it wasn't compatible with XP, but the community proved that was a load of bollocks when they ported it. They even got the "Vista exclusive" Halo 2 working on it.

    So yeah, you'll forgive me if I don't believe everything Microsoft says. Hindsight tells me that they lie through their teeth.
  8. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    Here's the lineage:
    WDDM 1.3 = Windows 8.1
    WDDM 1.2 = Windows 8
    WDDM 1.1 = Windows 7
    WDDM 1.0 = Windows Vista
    XDDM = Windows 2000/XP

    Prior to this, displays didn't have a discreet driver model. See VxD, Windows Driver Model, and Windows NT Driver Model.

    Remember, we're talking about drivers here. Even an older card like a GeForce 8800 GT which was originally designed for WDDM 1.0 can work on Windows 8.1 provided NVIDIA releases a WDDM 1.3 driver for it. Here is the caveat though: In Microsoft's documentation, they said Windows 8.1 requires a WDDM 1.3 driver. If NVIDIA didn't release an updated driver for 8800 GT for WDDM 1.3, the card wouldn't work for Windows 8.1.

    I just checked, NVIDIA already released a WDDM 1.3 driver for the 8800 GT so you can use that old card with Windows 8.1. It's really no different than XDDM in that regard: the drivers aren't backwards compatible but they can make old display devices work on new operating systems if updated.


    WDDM is all about adding new intrinsic display features to the operating system. It has little to do with the hardware itself and most to do with manufacturers providing forwards compatibility for older hardware.

    Do some research on WDDM for why Microsoft released new versions of it. All of them are pretty significant changes (e.g. WDDM overrides a full screen application when pressing ctrl+alt+del where XDDM did not).

    Direct3D 10 is not, was not, and never will be compatible with XDDM (Windows XP). WDDM is largely what made Direct3D 10 what it is (more efficient, more capable). Direct3D 10 debuted over five years ago. Now virtually all new games use it or one of its derivatives.


    Halo 2 had DRM to allow it to only install on Windows Vista. Crackers removed the DRM and thus, removed its Vista-only lock. Halo 2 was a Direct3D 9.0c game so the DRM was the only obstacle to making it work.

    Now, try to run a game like Stormrise on XP which is Direct3D 10 exclusive. DRM or not, it's not going to work.


    As if the above wasn't enough, let's talk about why WDDM 1.3 and Direct3D 11.2 are tied together. The major feature Direct3D 11.2 adds is the ability to have gigantic images and have Direct3D only load parts of that image into the video memory for rendering. This basically means virtual memory (in the main RAM or HDD/SDD) to artificially expand how much video memory is present. This is a WDDM issue, hence 1.3; but it is also a graphics card issue because to accomplish that goal, they need a plethora of new commands for the GPU. Add to it the fact that Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 don't know what to do with a WDDM 1.3 driver (the new features like partially caching huge images), if you want Direct3D 11.2, you need at least Direct3D 11.2 hardware and Windows 8.1 (including WDDM 1.3 display driver) software.

    Yes, it is complicated but what Microsoft is doing here is really nothing out of the ordinary. WDDM 1.3 drivers are widely available already and no one is going to care much about Direct3D 11.2 for several years anyway (which is normal).
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
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  9. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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  10. rtwjunkie

    rtwjunkie

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    @Ford: I thought I saw on Nvidia's site they were only making WDDM 1.3 available for Fermi and above, meaning 400 series and later?
  11. m4gicfour

    m4gicfour

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    :laugh:

    That made me laugh, and almost choke.

    Now, back to lurking.
  12. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    They don't have 8.1 64-bit drivers for GeForce 5, 6, and 7 series but they do have them for GeForce 8 series and above. They must have changed their mind I guess.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  13. rtwjunkie

    rtwjunkie

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    Cool! That will probably make alot of people happy that are still running pre-Fermi.
  14. campdude

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    This is just as dumb as DX9 Halo 2 Windows Vista only. Too bad Mantle isnt as cool as it was supposed to be... or maybe it will become the new cool (hopes)
  15. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

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    Love peoples ASSUmptions
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  16. Prima.Vera

    Prima.Vera

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    My laptop is running Win8.1 on a nvidia Go 7900GTX card with no issues...
  17. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

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    mobility might be different, wouldnt be the first time.
  18. Prima.Vera

    Prima.Vera

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    Drivers are for Vista x32 :)))
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