Does AMD's new Phenom II get you all excited?

[Marineborn]

AMD!!!!...that is all

 

[trickson]

AMD!!!!...that is all

LOL Hey one question how far can you take your upgrade to ? OH that is right you are at the top of the ladder I can still get and am getting the Q9550 and maybe even a QX9770 some day ! I have options were as you are out of options
Yeah AMD !!!!

 

[btarunr]

LOL Hey one question how far can you take your upgrade to ? OH that is right you are at the top of the ladder I can still get and am getting the Q9550 and maybe even a QX9770 some day ! I have options were as you are out of options
Yeah AMD !!!!

As far as Intel takes. Sure, AMD has had 3 sockets of the same pin-grids (AM2/2+/3), but it isn't any worse than an Intel i915 motherboard not being able to run Core 2 Duo (while having the same LGA775 socket), an Intel i975X not being able to run 45nm chips, or worse, nForce 680i SLI not being able to run Yorkfield, (while they all had the same socket, and memory was subject to the MCH on the chipset). Intel's track record isn't better.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Basically a dual-core > quad-core in hot conditions logic. Nothing new, not to do with if it were Intel or AMD inside. For sure, if those rigs had say the Phenom X4 9750 instead of those Q6600s, the situation could have been similar/worse.

I'm an AMD lover but I have to agree with BTA. My question for you madmanjohn is your cooling solutions. If those CPUs were running on stock coolers in 98˚ ambient temp that would fry any quad. Also no telling what your friend did to them before the show since he was bragging so much. I don't get it. If that equipment means so much to you why wouldn't you water cool them if you KNOW the harsh environment they are going to be in?

 

[trickson]

As far as Intel takes. Sure, AMD has had 3 sockets of the same pin-grids (AM2/2+/3), but it isn't any worse than an Intel i915 motherboard not being able to run Core 2 Duo (while having the same LGA775 socket), an Intel i975X not being able to run 45nm chips, or worse, nForce 680i SLI not being able to run Yorkfield, (while they all had the same socket, and memory was subject to the MCH on the chipset). Intel's track record isn't better.

Yes you are right about this . I was able to go as high as a dual core 45nm on the EVGA 680i mobo not a quad core . I guess it is all how you look at things and what mobo you get and really how well one researches things out . There are now lots of mobos out that will do both 60nm and 45nm 750i , 780i and 790i chipsets all do both . but for i7 well they are in a class all by them selves .

 

[Darren]

LOL Hey one question how far can you take your upgrade to ? OH that is right you are at the top of the ladder I can still get and am getting the Q9550 and maybe even a QX9770 some day ! I have options were as you are out of options
Yeah AMD !!!!

Would I be correct to presume that AMD will be adding newer models in the next few weeks/months beyond the current Phenom II 940.

I dont think we should judge AMD 3 weeks into their CPU release by saying "there isn't enough Phenom II model numbers available".

I'm sure 3 weeks into the Core 2 launch or 3 weeks into the Core 2 Quad launch there was only a few CPU models available to the public.


Edit:

I am not bashing AMD I have not heard any one bash AMD however I have heard some bashing on Intel ..

This isn't AMD bashing?

LOL Hey one question how far can you take your upgrade to ? OH that is right you are at the top of the ladder I can still get and am getting the Q9550 and maybe even a QX9770 some day ! I have options were as you are out of options
Yeah AMD !!!! (nice sarcasm)

Edit 2:

Really ? So AMD is going to come out CPU faster than 3.0GHz ??? WOW then you do have a path for upgrading .

Yes. The Phenom II 950 is said to be clocked at 3.1 GHz and is released in the Q2

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11561&Itemid=35

 

[btarunr]

I'm an AMD lover but I have to agree with BTA. My question for you madmanjohn is your cooling solutions. If those CPUs were running on stock coolers in 98˚ ambient temp that would fry any quad. Also no telling what your friend did to them before the show since he was bragging so much. I don't get it. If that equipment means so much to you why wouldn't you water cool them if you KNOW the harsh environment they are going to be in?

98 ˚F is roughly 37 ˚C. That isn't a bad temperature for a quad at all. Such as it is, the CPU area is warmer thanks to the heat generated by the VRM area and the northbridge below it. Last summer when our AC broke for as long as a week before it was fixed, I ran a Q6600-B3 in ambient temperatures as high as 42 ˚C (107 ˚F). It ran perfectly fine and gaming stable at ~2.9 GHz.

 

[trickson]

I'm an AMD lover but I have to agree with BTA. My question for you madmanjohn is your cooling solutions. If those CPUs were running on stock coolers in 98˚ ambient temp that would fry any quad. Also no telling what your friend did to them before the show since he was bragging so much. I don't get it. If that equipment means so much to you why wouldn't you water cool them if you KNOW the harsh environment they are going to be in?

Yeah you are so right ! If that equipment meant that much to him why not water cooling or even Phase cooling in outside temps as high as 98F this would be the only way to go . Like I said sounds like some real B.S. to me !
I have never used stock cooling Unless the computer is in a controlled environment as they do not test the stock coolers in 98*F rooms now do they ?

But direct sun light through a tent can make temps reach way higher than that and under a tent is not really that much cooler so it could have been as high as 100 - 110 F and with sun light barreling on to the cases this could have been as hot as a car in the open sun 200- 220F ! That would have done them in .

 

[TheMailMan78]

You AMD bashers are as funny as the Intel bashers. Six months ago you guys were planning AMDs funeral. Now they are back to competing full time in their price bracket.

The thing we ALL forget is not everyone is an enthusiast like the members here. Most people are not trying to break a 3Dmark score. They just want to check their e-mail, play a few games and maybe watch a movie. You don't need 30,000 points in 3Dmark for that. You don't need a 3,000 dollar system for that. AMD and Intel are neck and neck in the performance per watt price class WHERE they compete. You Intel guys should give AMD some credit. The PII is a huge leap for the company.

 

[trickson]

You AMD bashers are as funny as the Intel bashers. Six months ago you guys were planning AMDs funeral. Now they are back to competing full time in their price bracket.

The thing we ALL forget is not everyone is an enthusiast like the members here. Most people are not trying to break a 3Dmark score. They just want to check their e-mail, play a few games and maybe watch a movie. You don't need 30,000 points in 3Dmark for that. You don't need a 3,000 dollar system for that. AMD and Intel are neck and neck in the performance per watt price class WHERE they compete. You Intel guys should give AMD some credit. The PII is a huge leap for the company.

Never said they weren't . I like the fact that AMD has hit some new highs brings down the price for me when I go to build a new setup . I am not bashing AMD I have not heard any one bash AMD however I have heard some bashing on Intel ..

 

[TheMailMan78]

98 ˚F is roughly 37 ˚C. That isn't a bad temperature for a quad at all. Such as it is, the CPU area is warmer thanks to the heat generated by the VRM area and the northbridge below it. Last summer when our AC broke for as long as a week before it was fixed, I ran a Q6600-B3 in ambient temperatures as high as 42 ˚C (107 ˚F). It ran perfectly fine and gaming stable at ~2.9 GHz.

No Bta he said it was 98˚ in the shade. Not the CPU. A LOT of computers will fail in that kind of heat. Plus who knows what the humidity was. Maybe the AMD was just dryer since it was in the van?

Edit: I misread your post. Why do you think they failed then? Humidity? Pilot error? Or maybe the story was BS?

 

[btarunr]

No Bta he said it was 98˚ in the shade. Not the CPU. A LOT of computers will fail in that kind of heat. Plus who knows what the humidity was. Maybe the AMD was just dryer since it was in the van?

I know, I'm talking about "shade" as in ambient temperature as well.

 

[TheMailMan78]

I know, I'm talking about "shade" as in ambient temperature as well.

I just saw that I edited my post.

 

[btarunr]

Why do you think they failed then? Humidity? Pilot error? Or maybe the story was BS?

Experiences differ, though I still say 37C ambient isn't a bad temperature to run a Q6600, even with its stock cooler on.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Experiences differ, though I still say 37C ambient isn't a bad temperature to run a Q6600, even with its stock cooler on.

It was more than one system in his story that failed. I think there is more to it than what madman shared.

 

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

its utter assumtion, we have no idea of the prior serivice or issues with the pc's, a story is all it is.

 

[TheMailMan78]

its utter assumtion, we have no idea of the prior serivice or issues with the pc's, a story is all it is.

I concur.

 

[phanbuey]

So i was the AMD stock today on my ticker. Its at 2.15 down from 44 - 3 years ago.

Here is the kicker... we have C2Q beacuse of AMD... much like we have a $240 GTX 260 because of the 48XX series. If AMD goes down, the game is over. We will be paying $1000 for our "core i8" in 5 years and buying our $800 GTX 395 which is a 40nm gtx 295 with a 256-bit bus. (remember the G80 architecture when there was no ATI in sight?)

The performance difference between phenom II 940 and Q9650 and the 4870X2 and GTX295 is so small (10-20%), and those parts perform at such a level that in 99% of the cases you cant feel the difference at all, even if its there.

Im getting a phenom II just because (1) its a great chip and (2) Intel doesnt need the money.

 

[Darknova]

LOL Hey one question how far can you take your upgrade to ? OH that is right you are at the top of the ladder I can still get and am getting the Q9550 and maybe even a QX9770 some day ! I have options were as you are out of options
Yeah AMD !!!!

Until February, March, oh and April, when the newer X4s come out, the AM3 chips, the Tri-cores and the dual-cores.

You're talking about a chip that's been out less than a month and saying there's no upgrade path? If you grabbed i7 you'd still only have 2 chips to choose from.

Your logic on that front is flawed.

 

[mtosev]

Im getting a phenom II just because (1) its a great chip and (2) Intel doesnt need the money.

funny stuff. so you won't buy a Intel cpu just because intel doesn't need money even that intel's cpus are better?



and btw you money and other ppls money won't help. why? very simple:

if you look at dell's computers you will see that 99% use intel cpus. dell is the world biggest OEM manufacturer of computers. < there is were the money is not in the retail sector. intel wouldn't have $$$$$ millions or billions if they didn't dominate the oem market.

and one more Sony has a conract with intel. so sony only uses intel's cpus. so you wont find a sony with an amd cpu.

 

[trickson]

Until February, March, oh and April, when the newer X4s come out, the AM3 chips, the Tri-cores and the dual-cores.

You're talking about a chip that's been out less than a month and saying there's no upgrade path? If you grabbed i7 you'd still only have 2 chips to choose from.

Your logic on that front is flawed.

Really ? So AMD is going to come out CPU faster than 3.0GHz ??? WOW then you do have a path for upgrading .

 

[madmanjohn]

ive been reading

water cooling is out of the question with as much abuse as these rigs take on the road- too many people have tried it-besides that would take a 6 or 700$ build to a much higher level

these are not flashy and pretty rigs- they are mules man- straight workhorses in steel cases

in order to justify a new rig to my accountant and insurance people, it has to do everything we need it to do including software for less than a grand and be able to pay for itself in one week, and depriciated within a year

besides in 7 years ive never had a temp related issue yet.but once again- none of these are overclocked either

the other thing is these need to be simple to set up and run- the software is easy to use once done plug in the two vgas and connect your video runs- everything else is usb or scsi.

a lot of the roadies have no clue- they just know to connect plug a to socket and so on

the also dont realize how fragile these are- thats why most of us have flight cases to keep em in the trucks on the road

like i said earlier- i have nothing aginst intel- but amds are just more reliable on the road- been proven time and time again. and they meet the budget guidelines i have to live within.

if i spend 1000.00 on a road dog plus software i spent too much. now on the other hand

if i was building one for myself to stay home- that would be altogether different.but it would hardly get used - im virtually never home.and this rig goes wherever i do.

when was the last time you had to replace a vga plug on a video card or motherboard? around here they get worn out. i can change a vga or a dvi plug in about 20 minutes.

once the season starts up in march we will run hard all the way thru october- i dont think i got to watch more than 20 hours of tv all last year because of what it takes to run this company, but im not complaining-i spend about 12 to 15 hrs a day with a mouse in my hand cause there is always things that need to be done- this for us is the slowest time of year so
this is when i relax and get some of my own projects in.

but when a man can have fun doing what he likes for a living and do well, its a good thing.

and as for my buddy with the q6600's i have no idea what he used for power supply or what else was under the hood, so i agree with some of the thoughts ive read

if you build a system with enough headroom and your not trying to work it too hard- it will be reliable-

i can save enough on a middle of the road amd to buy a good power supply, fans and a tough case-

the biggest failure problem we have is hard drives- i get idiots that drop computers then look at me like deer in the headlights when they dont run- we went thru 17 drives last year- none died of old age-all brands all sizes.

were they meant to do what we do to em? not at all- but a laptop just cant do it- and a laptop with a bunch of adapter boxes that cost half as much as a laptop is no good either, besides then we are back over 1000.$ at that point. considering the first thing we have to do to a lappy is drop a 7200rpm drive in it and max the ram to make it useable, and then make it try to run 4 separate video screens and audio and lighting apps at the same time-

the old way was to have 4 or five guys on 4 or five different computers- now you also have 4 people to pay- this way,one operater for all the visuals and lighting, and one computer to run all of it.

more than anything else- its the money--

hope yall understand- im not bashing anything- but i know what works, what dont and what ive seen and watched die. its still cheaper to me to buy some extra drives and equipment than it is to train4 or five employees and pay them for every show- do the math- and intel is just not that reliable on the road- amds are tough as nails when built right and cost effective- thats the bottom line

 

[trickson]

Yes. The Phenom II 950 is said to be clocked at 3.1 GHz and is released in the Q2

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11561&Itemid=35

cool

 

[Wile E]

madmanjohn, fantastic story. You've got an interesting job, do you get groupies in your line of work?




BazookaJoe, I'm not too fond of that review its obviously dodgy look at these statistics from the TPU official WPrime thread.

LeMoose - Phenom 9950 3009 MHz – 12.719
ntdouglas - Core 2 Quad Q6600 - 3204 MHz - 12.919

As one can see although the Phenom 9950 is clocked lower than the Q6600 the Phenom 9950 was able to attain a faster speed.

Also

fatguy1992 - Core 2 Quad Q6600 4005 MHz - 10.249
Kei – Phenom II 920 3780 MHz – 9.747

Although the Q6600 was clocked at over 4GHz it was unable to compete with the Phenom II which was clocked at only 3780Mhz

This proves that even if the Q6600 is overclocked to match the Phenom IIs clock speed or even if the Q6600 is overclocked higher than the Phenom II, the Phenom II has the advantage in Wprime.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=77369






Not sure how to respond to that considering that TPUs results show the Q6600 is slower than the old Phenoms and the new Phenoms in Wprime. The old Phenom 9950 is cheaper than the Q6600 in the UK.





madmanjohn's Q6600 was in a unique situation, he was operating his computer outside in rough conditions, 98 degrees in the shade. I doubt your bedroom or office is that hot.

In the summer, my computer room reaches 100F. My Intel rig stays OCed, and I even do bench runs, despite the heat, (Ask Damulta. I set records for single 8800GT 1GB's in that heat) and then proceed to game for hours.
Yet, in the same conditions, I have to underclock my AMD 6400+ rig. It's not the AMD's cpu's fault, it just needed better cooling. The Freezer 64 Pro doesn't cut it in those conditions.

The problem with the lighting setup was not with the builds being Intel, it was improperly setup if they burned out, plain and simple.

 

[Darren]

I agree, any CPU whether Intel or AMD would be performance impaired at those temperatures.

Some people are lucky and don't get lock ups, some are not.

Edit:

I'm also running a Freezer 64 on my AMD 3800+ X2 and it usually reaches about 40-45c during the autumn and winter, during the late spring and summer it can reach around 55-65 easily. Luckily my overclock of 2.8 GHz was never affected during the summer heat.